Sound repair

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eager to learn

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Sound repair

PostThu Aug 19, 2021 8:53 pm

Hi my esteemed listmates, I just recorded a video with my DSLR with Saramonic UwMic9 lavaliere mics (2 transmitters and receiver). It's my 1st time using this new audio system and it sounded OK on a quick on set sound check but now that I've listened to 30+ minutes the voices sound like they're too close to the mic (like they're shouting). Growing pains. Is there any easy way to fix that sound problem? Must it be fixed in the Fairlight Page? Thanks so much for your thoughts and suggestions.
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Charles Bennett

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Re: Sound repair

PostThu Aug 19, 2021 9:47 pm

Yes, this is a job for Fairlight. Without actually hearing the audio I can only make some suggestions. I would suggest you do your edit first.
Along with some EQ, a free vst plug-in that may just work for you is Tokyo Dawns' Proximity which will add some distance to the dialogue. This is a free download from their site and the vst works in Resolve. Once installed open it in the mixer channel. With some experimentation it may just work.
You will find it here.
https://www.tokyodawn.net/proximity/
Proximity Plug In.jpg
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IMPORTANT. See my next post.
Last edited by Charles Bennett on Thu Aug 19, 2021 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Charles Bennett

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Re: Sound repair

PostThu Aug 19, 2021 10:14 pm

Having just been on the website it appears Proximity may not still be available. I have the Windows installer on Dropbox.
You will find it here.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/i689tl37nqsits1/AACrSEt3T1-8b0jAbRoe4oRpa?dl=0.
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Re: Sound repair

PostFri Aug 20, 2021 1:37 pm

Hi Charles,

Thank you so much!

I just downloaded proximity and will install.

As a newbie, I've relegated my DR "mastering" primarily to the Edit Page (baby steps) so I have no experience with the Fairlight Page. It looks impressive and I;m even more impressed by those who've mastered it. I haven't found the DR Training Manual up to this point as helpful as some others have. I've learned a great deal from the kind and talented people on this list supplanted by a few YT one minute videos. Can you please possibly recommend any YT videos on the Faitlight Page you found helpful?

Thank you again.
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Re: Sound repair

PostFri Aug 20, 2021 2:48 pm

Hi Charles and fellow listmates,

I took a 20 minute clip and reduced it down to approx 27 seconds (50 MB) and uploaded it to Drop Box here ...https://www.dropbox.com/t/6JQ98HHhNc2PMZhf

If you would so kind as to listen to to to hear how the audio is too loud and share any thoughts and/or suggestions, including any YT videos you've found helpful in addressing too loud audio I'd greatly appreciate your kind help.

Thank you!
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Re: Sound repair

PostFri Aug 20, 2021 2:50 pm

Charles Bennett wrote:Having just been on the website it appears Proximity may not still be available. I have the Windows installer on Dropbox.
You will find it here.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/i689tl37nqsits1/AACrSEt3T1-8b0jAbRoe4oRpa?dl=0.

Downloader seems to be working fine for me at https://www.tokyodawn.net/proximity/
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Re: Sound repair

PostFri Aug 20, 2021 3:31 pm

Thanks Tom. When I tested it before posting it didn't work. I already had the Windows version saved which is what I posted on Dropbox.

Charles, I will have a listen to that clip. As to video tutorials, there are two dedicated to Fairlight on the Blackmagic training site which include project files.
https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/uk/products/davinciresolve/training

As for me I've only ever looked at specifics in the manual. I do have a serious advantage however, as I've been a Pro Tools user for the last 26 years so a DAW holds no mysteries for me.
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Re: Sound repair

PostFri Aug 20, 2021 4:04 pm

Hi Tom and Charles,

I was able to download the Proximity add-on and install it on my hard drive from the "monkey" site.

Charles - thank you for sharing that training link.

I'll view that as soon as I can.

I'm hoping I don't need to be an experienced audio engineer for this audio level correction?!

My experience with audio editing consists only with Audacity (free) which is a remarkable program but I think will only edit audio files so I don't think I could import the video recording I have into Audacity and then just edit the audio? That would be magical!

Thank you!
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Re: Sound repair

PostFri Aug 20, 2021 4:31 pm

You can render an audio only file from Resolve by deselecting the Export Video box. Import that rendered audio file into Audacity, alter levels and add any EQ etc, and save. As long as you haven't cut the track you can then import that audio file into Resolve and drop it onto a new track in the timeline and it will match. Mute the original audio track and away you go.
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Re: Sound repair

PostFri Aug 20, 2021 4:53 pm

Charles, I've had a listen to your audio track. Apart from the reverberant acoustics which don't help, your audio is very distorted. Level wise the audio is ok but that distortion is baked in and there is no way to remove it. It sounds like either the mics are overloading the audio input of the transmitter, or the receiver overloading the input of your camera.
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Re: Sound repair

PostFri Aug 20, 2021 6:14 pm

Hi Charles.

Thanks so much for all your kind help.

As I’ve never done this before in any video editing program, when you suggest “from Resolve by deselecting the Export Video box” do I first highlight the audio only track from the video (those little rec boxes), then click that Link (chain icon) – I’m doing this all on the run at different computers – and then select the Deliver Page to “deselect the Export Video box”?

Would you suggest then that I Render that “audio only” file as an .MP3 to edit in Audacity?

Once edited to the correct audio levels in Audacity, would I export that file as an.MP3 file and then drag it to the DR Viewer Screen then drag it to a different audio track than the original audio track?
I’ll experiment about how to mute an entire audio track so the original audio track doesn’t play and only the modified audio file does.

Thanks for listening to that distorted audio and your thoughts about how that might have happened! More growing pains!
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Re: Sound repair

PostFri Aug 20, 2021 6:54 pm

No you don't have to select anything.
In the Render page enter a title and location for the rendered file. Deselect Export Video. Make sure the Format is Quicktime. Click on the audio tab and next to the word Codec select Linear PCM, Sample Rate 48000. and Bit Depth 24. Add to the Render Queue and render.
The rendered audio file may need the extension .wav adding to the end of the file name for it to be recognized as a WAV file in Audacity. When you are happy with the track in Audacity output it and save it as a WAV file. You can then import the WAV file into Resolve and place it on a new track.
To mute a track just click on the M box in the track header. It will turn red.

Because of the quality I would never advocate using mp3 for anything. ;)

You could, of course, bite the bullet and do all of this, which is not hard, in Fairlight. No rendering, exporting, or importing. Just open the Fairlight page and it's there.
Fairlight is a DAW just like Audacity, they just look different but the basic functions are the same.
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Re: Sound repair

PostFri Aug 20, 2021 9:15 pm

Hi Charles,

So good of you to generously share those steps and insight with me.

I want to learn this in the Fairlight Page as well as that makes a lot of sense to stay within DR.

My initial entree into the Fusion Page was not a success as the environment appeared to me, as a newbie so, unfamiliar. You can create remarkable effect in that Fusion Page so I hope to master at least soem of its features one day.

Thank you again.
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Re: Sound repair

PostFri Aug 20, 2021 10:47 pm

Charles, I ran your sample though a few filters in RX7 and this is the best I've been able to come up with.

It's a compromise between phazy artifacts and distortion. Lowering the de-clip brings in much more distortion long before the artifacting reduces significantly.

RX Advanced is pretty expensive, but if you are able to extract all your audio files as WAV I'd be happy to batch process them for you.

Try to learn from this. Gain staging is yet another skill for you to learn. You have 2 major problems here; firstly, assuming this is the raw audio and you haven't adjusted the level, the output of your mic receiver was too loud for the input of the camera (or whatever audio recorder you used), causing the preamp to overload. This is a type of distortion that's hard to fix.

The second problem is terrible room acoustics. If you have no choice but to use a venue with really bad acoustics like this, then you should try to hang large soft items just out of camera shot to try to tame it a little. Search for sound blankets to see what the professionals use.

I haven't tried to remove the bad reverberant sound or background noise as that would only add more digital artifacts.
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Re: Sound repair

PostFri Aug 20, 2021 10:58 pm

This is the filter chain I used in RX7 Advanced:

1/ De-clip. This module looks at chopped off peaks and tries to guess what the signal would have done. It can work quite well on minor digital clipping, but this is analog clipping which tends to round off the peaks, so it's a lot harder for the algorithm to predict without artifacts.

2/ De-click. This module managed to remove some ot the clicks that remained after the first process. At this point there were places where many of the remaining click were in either the left or right channel.

3,4/ I then ran Center Extract twice, which helped remove a few more of the click that were remaining in just one channel.

The result is what I feel is the best compromise between the distortion and added artifacts.
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Re: Sound repair

PostSat Aug 21, 2021 1:31 pm

Good Morning Mike,

YOU are nothing short of AMAZING!!! What you accomplished not only sounds so much better but I thinks it's usable as is. This is only a free library video for patrons so I'm not trying to win an Oscar (and probably will never do so as a video editor). Please forgive my ignorance, but what is the RX7? Is that an advanced audio application? Or hardware?

Thank you so much for performing that magic and for your much appreciated suggestions as to reducing the Receiver audio level. I'm not sure how to find the sweet spot for that as I stumble along trying to learn by trial and error without any training by Saramonic besides a short user guide.

Could we also have had one or both of the Transmitters (lavaliere mics) sound up too high as well?

Again, I'll have to determine the sweet spot for them as well.

I'm not sure if I can/should adjust the sound level on the camera - Canon M50 DSLR - or whether the sound level on the camera won't matter, it's the sound being pushed through the camera by the transmitters and 1 receiver?

I can't thank you enough for all your kind help and understanding!
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Re: Sound repair

PostSat Aug 21, 2021 11:02 pm

RX is audio processing software from iZotope. I have RX7 Advanced, but it looks like even the base version (Elements) has De-Clip.

https://www.izotope.com/en/products/rx/ ... .html#comp

If you don't want to spend any money, I'm happy to batch process them for you.

Are you able to export all the files as WAV? If so, can you put them all in a zip file, upload them somewhere and PM me the link.

It sounds like the distortion in the sample file happened at a preamp, probably in the camera. Turning the recording level down won't fix it.

If you don't have a level control on the M50 then you were probably recording in auto level mode. It actually sounds like that from the recording.

Gain staging is the process of making sure each stage in the audio chain is getting the optimum level so you don't get distortion or excessive noise. Although there are many variations, for your setup I'm guessing it's something like this:

SignalChain.jpg
SignalChain.jpg (19.94 KiB) Viewed 2192 times


And the distortion is most likely happening at the Preamp. You may or may not have an output level switch on the receiver. If there is one, it needs to be set to Mic not Line.

As for future recordings, I suggest you follow this process:

1/ Set the camera's recording level to the default setting. This would normally be half to three quarters of the way up. it may be described as 0dB. If nothing is indicated, or zero is right at the bottom, then set it at about two thirds.

2/ If your mic receiver has an output switch, set it at the Mic position (may be called something like -10dBm)

3/ Monitor the level on your camera while speaking into the mic and adjusting the mic level on the receiver. The level should not come any where near the top, even when speaking loudly. But it's important not to be super quiet either or you will have too much noise in the recording.

The mic level control should have naturally arrived at between 1/4 and 3/4. If not, then there is a gain staging problem somewhere.

If your receiver does not have an output level switch and the specs list it as line level out then you may need an attenuator between the receiver output and camera input.

This could be largely irrelevant for your situation. If you tell me the model of the microphone system I might be able to offer more tailored advice.
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Re: Sound repair

PostSun Aug 22, 2021 5:19 am

Charles Bennett wrote: ...a free vst plug-in that may just work for you is Tokyo Dawns' Proximity which will add some distance to the dialogue.


I have the opposite problem, where the boom guy pointed the mic towards the ceiling (in a already echoy room) - yeah, don't ask :roll:

Any suggestions how to fix that?
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Re: Sound repair

PostSun Aug 22, 2021 7:39 am

Frank Glencairn wrote:I have the opposite problem, where the boom guy pointed the mic towards the ceiling (in a already echoy room) - yeah, don't ask :roll:

Any suggestions how to fix that?


That always a difficult one. There are functions in RX and Acoustica that help, but unless the problem is pretty mild there will be artifacts.

If you want to supply a small sample, preferably in WAV format, I can have a go for you.
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Re: Sound repair

PostSun Aug 22, 2021 5:48 pm

Hi Mike,

Thank you ever so very much for your kind insights.

I think you've zoned in on the exact issues.

I use this Canon M50 DSLR infrequently and this was the first time using this audio equipment.

I tried following the manual but no manual can train you for the mistakes you make on set even inadvertently and especially when you have very limited time to to video record at an unfamiliar location and you must get everything perfect on one take. No pressure there!

The diagram you shared is soooo helpful I'm printing it and placing it in the camera bag - seriously!

Thank you for all your kindness and professionalism.
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Re: Sound repair

PostSun Aug 22, 2021 11:00 pm

eager to learn wrote:The diagram you shared is soooo helpful I'm printing it and placing it in the camera bag - seriously!


That diagram is very simplified, and I made a mistake with it. The last stage should be ADC not DAC, of course. A rather embarrassing mistake for an electronics engineer to make. :)

I've replied to your PM with what should be a simple process to extract WAV files from your videos using Audacity.
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Re: Sound repair

PostFri Sep 17, 2021 9:46 pm

My esteemed listmates… I hope you all are doing well. I’ve got a video clip which I’ve muted the audio underneath it as I needed to replace that bad audio with re-engineered audio which sounds better. The video clip is .mp4 and the re-engineered audio is a .wav file. I placed the re-engineered audio on its own track below the original audio. I highlighted the original audio which is tethered to the video and clicked the M to mute it. I then wanted to edit the video so that 1st 10 seconds or so of the video are removed. I chose Select > Timeline Split Clip, then moved the playhead by repeatedly pressing the right arrow button until I reached the exact point in the video I wished to remove up to. I then chose Trim >Ripple>Start to Playhead and it cuts the video. But, when I press the Home key to play the video from the now edited start it plays the audio where I wan tit to start but not the video. Do I need to un-tether the original audio? Or would it be better to un-tether the original audio and then delete that original audio and then place the re-engineered audio on its own separate track and then somehow link the re-engineered audio with the video? Basically, the video and audio aren’t syncing. Thank you so much.
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Re: Sound repair

PostWed Sep 22, 2021 3:37 pm

Updating... still grappling with substituting audio... I have the /mp4 video clip on the Timeline in the Edit Page and blow that is the tethered audio (bad) to that video. I have the M (Mute) red button on and blow that audio on a separate track is the re-engineered ( better) .wav audio file. I have the playhead at the beginning of the video and bot audios I pres the space bar to play and there;s either a delay in the aduio laying as the video is playing or both of the audios play at the same time. I've scoured the manual to see if this issue is covered but I didn't find anything. I also reviewed the Training Video but I didn't notice this topic. I just want the re-engineered audio to play right from the start with the video in sync. I must be missing a step. If you've substituted audio, would you please be so kind as to share your steps or if you notice which steps I'm missing please sahre that? Thank you.
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Re: Sound repair

PostWed Sep 22, 2021 5:47 pm

OK, my bad. I closed down DR and re-booted and now it's working fine. Maybe there's some kind of a "cache-equivalent" in DR projects can get caught in?

Thanks for understanding.

My apologies.
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Re: Sound repair

PostMon Sep 27, 2021 9:43 am

Mike Warren wrote:
Frank Glencairn wrote:

If you want to supply a small sample, preferably in WAV format, I can have a go for you.


Thanks Mike, but we ended up doing ADR for all tracks, since it was too much of a mess.
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Re: Sound repair

PostMon Sep 27, 2021 3:10 pm

eager to learn wrote:Please forgive my ignorance, but what is the RX7? Is that an advanced audio application? Or hardware?

Thank you so much for performing that magic and for your much appreciated suggestions as to reducing the Receiver audio level.


You are far less ignorant than you give yourself credit for. RX7 is quite literally magic. That is a completely accurate observation.

(I know this was kind of an old post, but I couldn't resist.)
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Re: Sound repair

PostSun Oct 24, 2021 7:44 pm

Hi TCP,

What I've learned both through the talent and kindness of people on this forum coupled with on-set trial and error is that "Don't worry, we'll fix it in the mix." was probably never uttered by an audio engineer! Some audio can be enhanced within DR Edit Page (audio mixer - increasing sound - I have 0 experience with the DR Fairlight Page) and the RX 7 is a remarkable tool but there's no substitute for capturing high quality audio on set. I was using new transmitters and receiver with a DSLR not known for handling sound and it was MY user error which caused the deficient audio. I've enjoyed several conversations with the audio equipment manufacturer and learned so much for future records with a focus not to repeat that Forest Gump work product.

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