Switching timeline to clip nodes disables adjustments?

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alex.starbuck

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Switching timeline to clip nodes disables adjustments?

PostTue Nov 30, 2021 6:06 pm

Hi all,

I don't even know how to formulate the title of this question but the core is really simple: If I make adjustments on the TIMELINE node(s) and switch to CLIP nodes level, all the changes made on the TIMELINE get disabled in the viewer.

The TIMELINE changes are still present and they do "re-engage" upon switching back to TIMELINE nodes, but disengage as soon as I go back to CLIP, PRE/POST-CLIP option. The same happens if I make changes at the POST-GROUP level and switch to CLIP level. I wonder how am I supposed to tweak individual clips and keep the "look" set at the timeline/group level if these "global" adjustments disengage as soon as I switch away from them.

I color manage on the project level (DaVinci wide gamut > Rec709) if that matters at all (but shouldn't) and I am using the COLORLAB.AI Look Designer to set my overall look in the timeline node.

Many thanks for any ideas what is at play here.

EDIT: Now my music stopped playing in the color page (I checked, it is not turned off under the viewer).
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Andy Mees

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Re: Switching TIMELINE to CLIP nodes disables adjustments?

PostTue Nov 30, 2021 7:18 pm

Hey Alex

So is this not working for you at all, not even at a really basic and simplistic level... could it be specific to your current project?

For example, if you do something very simple, like add a single corrector node at the the Timeline level with a single power window in it and an an extreme curve adjustment... if I do that here that leaves me with a big adjusted blob in the middle of the viewer.... when I then switch to Clip level adjustments that big blob is ever present on every clip and every frame in addition to all the corrections I then continue to make / have made at the clip level.

If you're able to replicate something that simplistic, that at least could verify that the various levels of correction available are working and that the current issue you're seeing is something specific.

Might be worth checking the workflow on a new clean project too.

Hope it helps
Andy
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Peter Chamberlain

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Re: Switching timeline to clip nodes disables adjustments?

PostWed Dec 01, 2021 1:20 am

Is highlight on?
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alex.starbuck

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Re: Switching timeline to clip nodes disables adjustments?

PostWed Dec 01, 2021 11:16 am

Hello everybody and thanks for chiming in!

I fixed the problem, unfortunately without a proper explanation. What I did were the following steps:

[list=]
[*]close Resolve (17.4.2 build 9)
[*]reset PC (Win 10)
[*]start Resolve
[*]create a fresh project with a couple of clips, same camera as problem project
[*]set-up pipeline (DCM at the project level, LookDesigner at the Timeline level, simple corrections at the clip level)
[/list]

Tried switching back and forth - it all seems to work! After doing all this, I went back to my original project, stripped all the grades from the whole timeline, re-did this same proces outlined above, and now it all works.

It might be a glitch on my system?

Cheers!
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Marc Wielage

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Re: Switching timeline to clip nodes disables adjustments?

PostThu Dec 02, 2021 2:12 am

I take it Look Designer is a plug-in? My opinion: assuming this is Dado Valentic's plug-in, I think you're better off exporting a LUT from Look Designer and then bringing that LUT in. For me (my philosophy), I think looks work better as Group Grades and not Timeline Grades. I only use Timeline for major issues that affect the entire show, like sizing or a letterbox or something like that, and I still keyframe it.

To me, Timeline is a dangerous place to put actual color grades. I think a better philosophy is to use a fixed node tree big enough that you have several empty ones available, then you can highlight one specific node common to all shots, then highlight all the shots in that scene, and choose Color -> Ripple Node Changes to Selected Clips. Now, you have the effect of a Timeline grade, but now you have the ability to bypass it, change it, or work around it. So this is more a "node philosophy" issue.

BTW, Dado has some interesting ideas and some of his training courses are quite advanced and very useful.
marc wielage, csi • VP/color & workflow • chroma | hollywood
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alex.starbuck

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Re: Switching timeline to clip nodes disables adjustments?

PostThu Dec 02, 2021 9:06 pm

Yes Marc, you are correct. Look Designer is Dado's OFX plug-in for resolve. OK, you just helped me resolve a major pipeline issue.

Now, how do you suggest I go about creating the look LUT? Choose an "average" shot which sort of represents the whole programme, create the look with the plug in, export lut, remove the node with plugin, re-apply the look LUT on group level...? :)

Cheers!
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Marc Wielage

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Re: Switching timeline to clip nodes disables adjustments?

PostFri Dec 03, 2021 12:35 am

alex.starbuck wrote:Now, how do you suggest I go about creating the look LUT? Choose an "average" shot which sort of represents the whole programme, create the look with the plug in, export lut, remove the node with plugin, re-apply the look LUT on group level...? :)

You could. There are a lot of different ways to work. I'll give you two:

1) create a fixed node tree of (say) 15 nodes. The first few nodes essentially "normalize" the material and get it under control, perhaps in a Rec709-ish viewable condition. Then two more nodes are used for the LOOK, perhaps as multiple nodes turned into a compound node. You could have a LUT in one -- at least a LUT designed for Rec709 in and Rec709 out -- or Film Emulation or whatever you want. Once the look is there, then the rest of the nodes would be keys and windows and trims and clips and all the other adjustments needed for the shot. Every single node should be clearly labeled so you can differentiate what each one does and stay organized.

2) color correct the show, then create a Group Post-Clip Grade for specific scenes: for example, there's a Kitchen Scene, and there's an Office Scene, and there's a Car Scene. Each of the specific scenes gets a Group Grade that applies an overall look. If the Clip correction is done accurately enough, often everything will still match even if you apply a Group grade. If the filmmakers decide the look is too much, you can always add a "split the difference" node at the end with a Key Output node that lowers the opacity of the grade by (say) 50%. I use that when the director says, "I like the look, but let's have a little less of it."

There's a lot of different ways you can go. I would point to these people below as having very good ideas on Look Creation and strategies for Resolve:

Cullen Kelly (who does tutorials for several websites and also on YouTube)
https://www.youtube.com/c/CullenKelly

Stefan Ringelschwandtner
https://mononodes.com/

Jason Bowdach
https://pixeltoolspost.com/

Lowepost
https://lowepost.com/courses/color-grading

and
Juan Melara
https://juanmelara.com.au/store

All have some really interesting ideas on getting distinctive, high-impact looks within Resolve. I do think the Timeline grade is very special but also fragile, and it's not what I would rely on for a look per se. You can make a better case for Group Grades, Shared Nodes, or Fixed Node Trees, which will give you the ability to undo and make changes on a shot-by-shot or a large group basis.
marc wielage, csi • VP/color & workflow • chroma | hollywood
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alex.starbuck

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Re: Switching timeline to clip nodes disables adjustments?

PostSat Dec 04, 2021 8:50 pm

HUGE thank you, Marc! :) (I know about Cullen, I've watched and re-watched all of his YT videos a couple of times, and each time I watch again, new concepts sink into my brain.

I'll play around some more and report the results.

Thanks!
Alex

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