Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

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Joe Shapiro

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Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostTue May 31, 2022 7:53 pm

Hi Folks
I've been trying since v12 to use Resolve for real as my editor. Each time I try I run into enough gotchas that I have to change my mind and go back to either Premiere or Avid.

I'm now trying again - real hard! - with v17/v18.
I hear a lot on this forum from people who say "just forget everything you know and do it Resolve's way and you'll be fine." I really wonder how many of these people are colorists who dip into the edit page rather than full-time editors.

Would full-time editors please respond to this thread and say hi - along with a bit about your experience using Resolve as your editing daily-driver?

Thanks!
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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostTue May 31, 2022 9:09 pm

I do everything in Resolve. And I do offer that very advice from time to time because I found it worked for me - "Forget what you know, learn Resolve as if you're new to editing."

That said, my work is relatively low end. Nothing scripted or broadcast, mostly event/corporate/social media stuff.
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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostTue May 31, 2022 9:33 pm

Thanks for that reply, Jim.
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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostTue May 31, 2022 9:36 pm

Any number of feature-length projects have been edited in Resolve, but I don't think there's any narrative editors here, including this one, who's wedded to Resolve as an NLE -- for reasons that have been detailed in other threads.
The basic functionality is there. The work can be done. But too many drawbacks. Small things, but collectively too consequential.

Look at Color: far more "mature" than Edit, and yet there are daily feature requests from the professionals here. Nobody tells them to get used to it.

Fairlight and Fusion adoption may be more remote, people have strong attachments to the competition, what they've been using for years. But I think lots folks would gladly jump ship to the Resolve NLE, especially with Color just a click away -- if only that prospect was more attractive.
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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostTue May 31, 2022 11:46 pm

I have used all the different editing apps and find Resolve to still need more refinement before I would use it as a dedicated editor. Some things are just too cumbersome for a fast deadline driven workflow. I mostly do broadcast work like TV series and commercials.
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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostTue May 31, 2022 11:59 pm

I use Resolve for my entire workflow -- however I would have to say that the editor is my least-favourite part of the package.

Coming from Sony/Vegas was a bit of a learning curve and I still, to this day, wonder why some things on Resolve's edit page are so unintuitive and cumbersome.

However, when *everything* is taken into account, I just live with the negatives because they're far outweighed by the positives.

Nothing's perfect and perfection is the enemy of "good enough", as they say.
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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostWed Jun 01, 2022 12:02 am

I mostly edit (though I occasionally do some color and VFX) and have used Resolve for everything since v12.

This year I was an on set editor for some big brand commercials where I had to work faster than I ever had before, knowing how to do things "Resolve's way" paid off.

I've heard from other editors coming from other apps finding some difficulty since things aren't what they're used to. But having done commercials, corporate video, social media content, and narrative films I have yet to run into anything I need that I can't accomplish one way or another.
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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostWed Jun 01, 2022 1:20 am

Joe Shapiro wrote:I hear a lot on this forum from people who say "just forget everything you know and do it Resolve's way and you'll be fine."!

Yeah, I've seen that too and I totally disagree because simply "forgetting" that many simple editing tasks can be very tedious in Resolve doesn't magically make it better. lol Instead of forgetting the better and faster editing methods I've done editing audio in DAWs and even occasional video editing in Vegas Pro (which edits video very similarly to how DAWs edit audio) I would rather try to get those better features added into Resolve.

Resolve is fantastic in many areas but editing is not one of its strong points IMO. If BMD were to make the Edit page a top priority for just a little while, I think they could bring it up to speed relatively quickly. There is so much potential, but it's not there yet unfortunately. If we all keep expressing our concerns on this one area, hopefully they'll address it. :)

Gedaly Guberek wrote:I've heard from other editors coming from other apps finding some difficulty since things aren't what they're used to. But having done commercials, corporate video, social media content, and narrative films I have yet to run into anything I need that I can't accomplish one way or another.

Right, I'm sure you can do anything you need to using Resolve's way..... eventually. But when it's slower, requires hacky workarounds, more steps, less intuitive, frustrating, etc. then it becomes a problem. I would like for the software work with me rather than against me. For my DAW I have changed over to Reaper after around 18 years using Samplitude and I LOVE it. Reaper is unbelievably customizable so I can set it up to work however I want. There is a couple things I miss from Samplitude, but that's about it.
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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostWed Jun 01, 2022 2:19 am

Thank you everyone for sharing your experiences with editing in Resolve.
I very much agree with almost everything said here.

Hopefully the Edit page team will reach out to some of us and watch us edit with Resolve. That way they can get some deep knowledge of where it's working with us and against us. I know when I used to work as a developer at Microsoft I cherished the site visits where I could look over a user's shoulder as they tried to get their work done with FrontPage. Plenty of tweaks and features came out of these visits WATCHING people work rather than just churning out "interesting" features.

Cheers!
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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostWed Jun 01, 2022 2:36 am

Joe Shapiro wrote:Hopefully the Edit page team will reach out to some of us and watch us edit with Resolve. That way they can get some deep knowledge of where it's working with us and against us.

When I made my first feature request post regarding some of the editing issues I had with Resolve, for several of them I screen recorded and made GIF images out of them to show what the issues were. Then I did the same in Vegas Pro to show how it behaved better.

Seven Editing Problems and Solutions (w/ GIF illustrations)
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=156523
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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostWed Jun 01, 2022 2:46 am

Thanks for that. Did anyone from the Resolve team follow up on your report?

Does it feel important to you that the team gives some sort of indication as to the disposition of your report?


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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostWed Jun 01, 2022 2:58 am

Getting a Speed Editor is a great pick up.
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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostWed Jun 01, 2022 4:03 am

I work on finishing for indie docos and editing for museum/kiosk installation. I find BDR does everything I need. I edit, grade and use Fusion and, increasingly, Fairlight.
I started in 1981 on a system like CMX called (?) Datatron then CMX, AEC, GrassValley, The Edge, Sony RM 400, 450, 910, 9000, Sony Betacam front panel editing for remote event work. Media 100, VideoCube, Quantel Editbox, FCP7, Quantel EQ, Premiere Pro....Resolve.

They were all different. The hardest part is proprietary names: a cut? splice? Join?
Searching through manuals using one manufacturer's terminology to find info in another's is infuriating. Like they are trying to hold you captive through terminology. Nothing surer to bring misery than resenting that your current platform doesn't have a tool or process that you found "perfect" on a previous platform.

I remember when Combustion was EOL'd. That forum had people on the edge of suicide - "I've dedicated my life to learning this..."

It is important to remember that you are the editor - the system is just a tool

...I did have an assistant once who was a bit of a tool too...
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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostWed Jun 01, 2022 4:47 am

Joe Shapiro wrote:Hopefully the Edit page team will reach out to some of us and watch us edit with Resolve. That way they can get some deep knowledge of where it's working with us and against us. I know when I used to work as a developer at Microsoft I cherished the site visits where I could look over a user's shoulder as they tried to get their work done with FrontPage. Plenty of tweaks and features came out of these visits WATCHING people work rather than just churning out "interesting" features.

I love this! I wish more devs would dogfood their own products. It's all too common to have a huge disconnect between developers and users. I'm a new user editing with Resolve and have already found limitations that seem careless.
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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostWed Jun 01, 2022 5:03 am

For now i have been in a low complex video editing and FHD only, so the several mini-hiccups of editing in Resolve do not bother me that much. If i was doing professional video editing with complex work i probably could not do it in Resolve efficiently.
As another person that worked with Vegas video editor i consider that still a better editor after all this years.
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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostWed Jun 01, 2022 5:08 am

Joe Shapiro wrote:Did anyone from the Resolve team follow up on your report? Does it feel important to you that the team gives some sort of indication as to the disposition of your report?

No, I didn't get any follow up from BMD but they seem to respond more to bugs and problems than feature requests. They did respond quickly to an issue I had with the 18 beta crashing via PM with a temporary fix and then they fixed the problem permanently in the next beta release.

It would be nice if they responded to feature requests too and let us know if they are working on it. I understand they have to keep some things secretive when they are working on brand new features, but most things being asked for in the Edit page are not new or ground breaking. It's mostly just getting caught up to other editors that have had many of these features for years/decades. For feature requests like this I think they could let us know what they have in the works so we can give feedback as they are developing it. I'm relatively new to Resolve, but I've seen on the forum that the Edit page hasn't had any significant upgrades in several versions. Does BMD have plans to overhaul the Edit page? If so, I know I'd love to hear from them on this and what their plans are.
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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostWed Jun 01, 2022 8:18 am

it's a steep, somewhat bumpy learning curve when, being an experienced editor and moving from one nle to another - more so when you're adept with your old system and not really wanting to 'learn' yet another one.

i share a similar b/ground to roen above, moving from clunky hardware to, sometimes, frustrating software. i worked for quite a time with vegas, making it 'zing' along with a speed and proficiency i've never manger to match in resolve. however, since moving to resolve (11) i have had very, very few crashes, have not found i needed to go outside it (other than to google how to do something;-)), and, though my work isn't too complex, feel that something was lacking / missing.

i'm sure there are things that could, or need to, be done in order for the edit page to satisfy everyone's needs, and the introduction of the cut page only seems to have confused matters for some people like myself - but all in all, it's a great tool, and as every tradie knows, no one tool does EVERY job perfectly.
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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostWed Jun 01, 2022 8:32 am

It’s often a resource limitation so in the meantime we watch for feedback, build planning lists and review who is available. And no, we are not likely to list or describe what we r working on till we release.

Some of the contributors above have mentioned good, structured lists and we welcome those.

I should also add, while early days, we have had a number of feature films edited on Resolve now. Maybe the limitations you refer too are less apparent or more easily discarded in that use case, or pushed to an assistant.
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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostWed Jun 01, 2022 9:00 am

Joe!

Full time editor here.

You don't want to be 10 hours a day in the Edit page.

Its not about learning the Da Vinci way.

Several editing commands are broken, and many tools and workflows are designed poorly.

The Edit page is easy for those who do everything in Resolve, but it lacks so much functionality for those who edit full time.

I abandoned the idea of doing everything in the same program just because its easy. When editing I want to be in the best editor. When grading I want to be in the best grader.

In the discussion below I point out several points that are wrong about trimming, and ideas to improve it. If you are a heavy keyboard trimming, DaVinci is not for you:

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=158237
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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostWed Jun 01, 2022 10:40 am

I couldn't agree more with what everyone is saying. I tried to use DR 15 as my main NLE. I really tried. I actually spent weeks learning the software and finding workarounds for everything that I found was missing. Little by little the workarounds started piling up. I slowly realized that there was still a lot of features missing. Little stuff but it adds up. Then one day I reached my breaking point - I found out that I can't copy and paste individual 3rd party effects from one clip to another. I can only copy ALL effects from one clip and then when I paste them onto the new clip they will completely replace whatever effects might be on that clip. That's when I realized Resolve is just not ready to be a serious NLE. There are simply way toooooo many features missing, it's incredibly non intuitive, and too many things that should take 1-click require 5 clicks instead.

Fusion was a similar story - if not even worse.

Yes, you CAN do everything in Resolve that you can do in other NLEs. But why drive 50 miles to go buy groceries if you have a fully stocked store just down the street from you?? I just couldn't justify it.

I now use it only for color and to process raw footage.
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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostWed Jun 01, 2022 11:04 am

Full time fast turn broadcast documentary editor here Joe.

Been cutting in Resolve by choice for the last year or so... I get sent rushes, which I cut, color, mix and deliver. Nobody cares what I use to do it, as long as they get their finished product on time, and that it looks good, sounds good, and hopefully wins them some awards they can show their mothers.

A lot of folks post passionately here about perceived 'flaws' that don't bother/impact me in the slightest. Meanwhile, I post about flaws/limitations which, to me, beggar belief... but seem not to bother anyone else at all. Such is life.
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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostWed Jun 01, 2022 11:07 am

Andy Mees wrote:A lot of folks post passionately here about perceived 'flaws' that don't bother/impact me in the slightest.


I feel like that was a personal dig at me! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostWed Jun 01, 2022 11:13 am

Lol, not at all Ivan. :lol: :lol:
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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostWed Jun 01, 2022 12:57 pm

I'd like to acknowledge that Peter C (BMD, product manager for Resolve) did chime-in here - thank you, Peter.

I hope that BMD will consider improvements to Resolve as an NLE by engaging editors as Joe suggested.
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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostWed Jun 01, 2022 2:08 pm

after i started editing with u-matik and later betacam in the mid 80's,
i was the second editor in austria to edit on avid MC in 1990.

after some attempts with radius edit, premiere 1.0 then came 1999 finalcutpro on the market
and this was for a long time next to the avid MC my main NLE.

however, I now cut and grade everything in resolve for the last few years,
because the possibilities that resolve offers are superior to all other NLEs (for me).

i started as an editor with documentaries and industrial films and in 1987
i introduced offline editing for commercials in austria.

after a short interim phase at the end of the 90s with video clips (chris rea, queen, h-blocks, etc.)
i went back to commercials.

i don't have any experience with feature films or series on resolve,
but i see no reason why resolve shouldn't be used today only as an NLE system.


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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostWed Jun 01, 2022 5:45 pm

John Paines wrote:...The basic functionality is there. The work can be done. But too many drawbacks. Small things, but collectively too consequential...


^ This.

I'm an Avid editor by trade, and if I have to spend 12 hours working on a project for multiple days its the little things that drive me nuts in DaVinci, for instance: <Page Up> and <Page Down> don't jump up or down the zoomed in timeline. So if I'm doing close audio or titling work on a long timeline, I have to either zoom out and back in to go to the next section or grab the scroll bar.

This isn't a "big" deal and I can get the work done, but it's enough to get in my way when I'm just trying to focus on the edit. There are about a dozen of these little gotchas that collectively they make it impossible to use for real work.

Now mind you I have a list of several dozen things that piss me off about Avid too, its just none of them get constantly in the way of getting my work done repeatedly.
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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostWed Jun 01, 2022 5:50 pm

Christopher Osborn wrote:Now mind you I have a list of several dozen things that piss me off about Avid too, its just none of them get constantly in the way of getting my work done repeatedly.


THIS!
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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostWed Jun 01, 2022 6:45 pm

I'm not primarily an editor - I'm an enthusiastic amateur and I'm basically a monkey with a chainsaw on this stuff - but I'm seeing a common theme that I see in a lot of discussions about all kinds of software.

John Paines wrote:The basic functionality is there. The work can be done. But too many drawbacks. Small things, but collectively too consequential.


Tekkerue wrote:Yeah, I've seen that too and I totally disagree because simply "forgetting" that many simple editing tasks can be very tedious in Resolve doesn't magically make it better.

Gedaly Guberek wrote:Right, I'm sure you can do anything you need to using Resolve's way..... eventually. But when it's slower, requires hacky workarounds, more steps, less intuitive, frustrating, etc. then it becomes a problem.


Creator wrote:I'm a new user editing with Resolve and have already found limitations that seem careless.
[/quote]

Lots of "there's stuff missing / stuff doesn't work" but nobody (except IvanTheEditor who is quite comprehensive about it) is really explaining what's missing or what doesn't work for them. I've found similar issues in open-source software that I contribute to where users say "things I use don't work" or "things I use are missing" but it's like pulling teeth to get a clear and lucid description of what they actually wan to see.

There's a feature request thread, so maybe a quick writeup of what you're not managing to work with and a description of what you'd like to see could go in there, and maybe the BMD devs can take a look at it.

From my point of view having edited video on U-Matic in the Olden Days when I was at uni, edited on Premiere back when my thumping great editing workstation had a whopping 256MB of RAM, and then not done anything until I kind of fell back into it with DR about a year or so ago (ironically enough getting back into it because someone gave me a PD150 rather like the one I used with Premiere 20-odd years ago!), there is stuff I find a bit counterintuitive but I just assume that people who spend more time in the Editor's Chair than I decided it ought to be that way. I like the Cut page, and I'd recommend that anyone new to Resolve get their head round that as well as the Edit page. It's a great way to very quickly rough out something when you know kind of what you want in and what you want out, especially if you have a Speed Editor.

It's definitely worth getting a Speed Editor. The closest analogy I can come up with is, if you remember playing the first First Person Shooters like Duke Nukem and Quake, everyone played with a keyboard to look around and move, and then somehow the default became use the keyboard to move and the mouse to look around and turn in the direction you want to move. Going from keyboard-only to the Speed Editor was like switching to playing Quake with a mouse, and going back to editing without it (when $teenager borrows it to cut her bloody Tiktok videos on her PC) is like trying to type with your nose.

I think even if you're a very experienced editor it would be worth your time to spend an evening rattling through the training material, just for fun. One of the very large and complex programs I use every day is Kicad, a PCB CAD package, where you can draw in complex circuit diagrams for electronic equipment and then turn that into a PCB that you can have made up. The learning curve is ludicrously steep, especially for beginners who have never done anything like this before and never laid out a circuit diagram or PCB before, so what I tend to advise new Kicad users to do is pick a project that already exists that's similar to what they want to do, and make a "cover version" of it - copy the circuit diagram in, and lay out the board so it looks as close as possible the same. That way, you're climbing the "driving the software" learning curve separately from the "learning how to design circuit boards" learning curve. Perhaps if you've already got projects you've done in another NLE, you can try to recreate them in Resolve so you're taking the pressure of actually editing the programme off you while you learn how to make the software do what you want.
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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostWed Jun 01, 2022 9:41 pm

I used to edit in resolve, hoping that these "teething issues" would be fixed quickly, but after a while i went with premiere/avid again, and use resolve primarily for grading. resolve is a great tool, but there are still quite some things which makes editing a little less of a smooth experience (together with some big issues IMO) compared to it's competitors, at least for me. With some small/hobby projects i sometimes give it another go.

Lots of "there's stuff missing / stuff doesn't work" but nobody (except IvanTheEditor who is quite comprehensive about it) is really explaining what's missing or what doesn't work for them.


-i think currently this is for me the biggest thing: i have used many high end/mid range systems, linux, mac, windows, and all of them sooner or later had this very weird issue where the audio cross dissolves in your timeline just suddenly got ignored for some reason by resolve. Only way to solve it was to delete the dissolves and re-apply them. This happened way too often and is a big show stopper, especially with long, complex timelines.

-Then there is the alpha channel weirdness. Hard to explain, i guess you get confronted most of the times with it when using compound clips/nested timelines and some alpha channels / transitions. Try the push effect on a generator, make it a compound clip, move it up a track, add something underneath and see the result.

-Talking about compound clips, you cannot deliver from a nested/compound clip. why?

-"smart" caching.. move all clips 1 frame and you can re-render the entire timeline again.

-you cannot insert a clip from the source viewer with a shortcut without the embedded audio if that clip contains 2 or more channels.

-try adding a stroke to your subtitles.

-The undo system feels very random, sometimes it works, sometimes not, especially with effect plugins, raw settings, luts, etc.

-keyframes/easing in the edit page is maybe the most famous thing

-In/out on the timeline, and then ripple delete works 50% of the times correctly, at least for me.

-The retime process doesn't work on compound clips.

- IMO, the project file system still doesn't feel very efficient when it comes to backing up, but this is quite personal to be fair.

-when dragging a compound clip into the source viewer with the option "decompose compound clip on edit" enabled, the place on top shortcut doesn't actually decompose. It's a small thing, but it adds up.

-playing back a timeline in the source viewer always plays the audio in mono, even if the mix inside that timeline is stereo.

-I love the adobe "productions" feature. This makes multi-episode management easy to handle while keeping flexible. I just added this to this list because it played a big factor when choosing the NLE for some projects.

-multicam is still very basic, i cannot make the multicam viewer bigger, undock it, or send it to a external monitor. When working with a director next to me, this is almost embarrassing.

Or if i want to quickly change an angle, while the source viewer is active, i first have to set it to multicam view, and then i can click on an angle to change it. why can't i change an angle when clicking in the "normal" source viewer? This last thing isn't huge, but it's just the "why"

-MXF OP1a..
It is the broadcast standard for delivery. And it's completely unreliable. This is not system related anymore, i tested this with a lot of different computers. In one resolve version it seemed to be fixed, and the next version the issue was back, and then it was fixed, and then it came back.. I'm not taking the risk anymore.


I think i can go on a little more, but these came up the quickest. Some are minor things, no big deal, but all of them together, it adds up if you are working as a full time editor. For some there are workarounds, for some not. Don't get me wrong, i enjoy using resolve, also the edit page. but editing hasn't been the most reliable/predictable experience for me. which is why i'm using the old round-tripping way again for more serious projects.

But hey, it's a great thing that we can choose our tools!
Last edited by Rick van den Berg on Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostWed Jun 01, 2022 9:59 pm

Gordonjcp wrote:I'm not primarily an editor
...
Lots of "there's stuff missing / stuff doesn't work" but nobody (except IvanTheEditor who is quite comprehensive about it) is really explaining what's missing or what doesn't work for them


There are hundreds of post on this very issue, beginning years ago when v12 first appeared as a beta. And of course BMD is in contact professional editors and the staff is conversant with the prevailing NLEs. Sounds like you just dropped in?

Gordonjcp wrote:It's definitely worth getting a Speed Editor.
...
I think even if you're a very experienced editor it would be worth your time to spend an evening rattling through the training material, just for fun.


Thank god for unintentional humor.
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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostThu Jun 02, 2022 2:48 am

Peter Chamberlain wrote:It’s often a resource limitation so in the meantime we watch for feedback, build planning lists and review who is available. And no, we are not likely to list or describe what we r working on till we release.

Hi Peter, thank you for responding. I completely understand having limited resources so responding to every feature request isn't feasible and you all do an excellent job at addressing bugs/problems which is much appreciated (I've been on official forums for other software where the response from developers was essentially zero). I certainly don't expect a full comprehensive list or for BMD to divulge new "top secret" projects, but short and simple responses like "we are working on it" or "it's on our list, but we have higher priorities right now" on certain topics would be really nice.

This response from Rohit Gupta regarding magic mask tracking data getting deleted when clearing cache is a perfect example.
viewtopic.php?f=36&t=159772#p846681
"This is expected as of now. When you track, it actually stores the mask in the cache folder. We'll see if we can improve it."

Nothing too lengthy or even providing a time frame (as a programmer myself, I understand it takes time to get things working correctly) but responses like that go a long way because we know BMD is aware of the issue and is working on it.

I should also add, while early days, we have had a number of feature films edited on Resolve now. Maybe the limitations you refer too are less apparent or more easily discarded in that use case, or pushed to an assistant.

Absolutely, it's not that you can't complete projects in Resolve, but some basic tasks are more difficult and frustrating than they need to be. Especially when I've done the same tasks in other editors with no hassle. Films and music have made on a wide variety of mediums including splicing analog tape, but I doubt anyone would say analog tape is fast or easy to edit with.

At the end of the day, I'm definitely sticking with Resolve and I purchased Studio after about 3 weeks of trying the free version because the quality of the final product is far superior. That is worth it to me. I love the final result of Resolve, but I often don't love the process of getting there. I also believe it is far easier for Resolve to improve its basic editing capabilities than for another editor to overhaul everything else (effects, coloring, compositing, etc.) to compete with Resolve. I think BMD could bring the edit page up to speed and make it amazing if it was given top priority for a short period of time. Thank you again for listening and for your time! :)
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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostThu Jun 02, 2022 3:23 am

I do a high percentage of multicam, plus I LOVE the Production model in Premiere, where all my audio assets, b-roll, sequence templates, graphics and such are "stored" and available for any other project.

Between those two and some of the odd missing bits in Resolve's editing stuff, still do nearly all my edits in Premiere.

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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostThu Jun 02, 2022 3:45 am

Gordonjcp wrote:I'm seeing a common theme that I see in a lot of discussions about all kinds of software.
Tekkerue wrote:Yeah, I've seen that too and I totally disagree because simply "forgetting" that many simple editing tasks can be very tedious in Resolve doesn't magically make it better.

Lots of "there's stuff missing / stuff doesn't work" but nobody (except IvanTheEditor who is quite comprehensive about it) is really explaining what's missing or what doesn't work for them.

Since you quoted my comment, I did actually provide one of my feature request threads here as well (see the link at the end):
Tekkerue wrote:When I made my first feature request post regarding some of the editing issues I had with Resolve, for several of them I screen recorded and made GIF images out of them to show what the issues were. Then I did the same in Vegas Pro to show how it behaved better.

Seven Editing Problems and Solutions (w/ GIF illustrations)
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=156523

I wanted to be clear on what my problems were, so I did some screen recording and made GIFs out of them. It's often easier to show/demonstrate the problem than try to explain it in text. For each problem, I provided a potential solution that would solve the issue for me (some were screen recordings from Vegas Pro). I've also provided lots of details in other threads regarding my issues and I've bumped/responded to requests made by others when they are addressing an issue I have too.

Just because we haven't laid out all the issues we have in this one particular thread, that doesn't mean we haven't done it elsewhere in many other threads and feature requests too.
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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostThu Jun 02, 2022 8:16 am

Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

For me I think one word of your question is essential...

TLDR ? : I've been editing since 1998 but I've been led to do other stuff too from about 10 years later, by personal interest, need of easing workflows and specific opportunities, and Resolve was finally the best tool to complete it and/or help to reach my goals and open my eyes on new directions...

When I started editing, I was mainly into commercials, small reports or a bit longer documentaries and cultural multicams. Putting aside different prior NLE tests there and fro, I still can tell that FCP was the best editing tool I'd ever worked on, especially from version 5 to 7.0.3.
I had preyed for a kinda FCP8, but Apple decided it was better to restart from scratch (or almost, cos we all know there was an amateur pattern for FCPX in the beginning)...

Then, here"s the thing : the addition of my will to free myself from Apple (in the field of pro apps, since I'm still fond of the OS) - which could have been Avid or Adobe here - and the personal interest in mastering most of the post chain process was at stake for me.
I had been grading on Resolve since v9, and FCP + Resolve was ok until I forced myself to use Resolve only, for small projects only since v12, for anything since Resolve 15...

Yes, the real obligation not to open FC at all for 2 big projects had me get used to it... OK ok, it was a real pain in the ass in the beginning, because even when you're ok to change your habits, some tools were not there at all :D
But hey, round-tripping was too bothering in the end, and grading in the next tab was so much handy that I decided to only keep Apple Motion as a graphic pro app and switch everything else to Resolve and Fusion.
Funny how things evolved btw, because I'm into Fusion a lot now (and have the same thrills when I see the lack of love to its standalone version which sometimes reminds me Apple telling you what's right or wrong or what has to be managed quickly or not), and this new direction wouldn't have happened without Resolve.
So I was primarily an editor, I'm still one but kind of another user too now...

In the end, I think Resolve can be used for anything now, even if the Edit lacks a lot of smooth stuff for editors to feel more comfortable there, and as long as BMD listens to their customers, I'm confident for the future...
Good luck anyway ;)
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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostThu Jun 02, 2022 10:44 am

rNeil H wrote:I do a high percentage of multicam, plus I LOVE the Production model in Premiere, where all my audio assets, b-roll, sequence templates, graphics and such are "stored" and available for any other project.

Between those two and some of the odd missing bits in Resolve's editing stuff, still do nearly all my edits in Premiere.

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checkout Resolve's Power Bins.. turn it on in the View menu
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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostThu Jun 02, 2022 10:56 am

I'm an amateur who does small personal projects completely within Resolve. I've been using Resolve since v12.5 and didn't edit video with any other NLE prior to Resolve, so in a way I'm a "fresh slate" and don't come with baggage or muscle memory about "how it should be".

One thing that I have noticed is that there seems to be assumptions underlying how everything is laid out that seem not to make sense or seem very limiting. At first I thought this was just because I didn't know how to edit, but the more that I learn from reading/watching how professional editors work the more I suspect that it's not just me.

An example:
On the Speed Editor, which I find to be a useful investment BTW, are the TRIM IN, TRIM OUT buttons. The functionality of holding the button down and moving the wheel is great, but they are referenced to the edit point. My particular editing style is related to each clip, not each edit point. Therefore, for me to work with a particular clip on the timeline I have to scroll to the front half of the clip, adjust the TRIM IN, then move the playhead to the second half of that clip, then I can adjust the TRIM OUT. I am kind-of working backwards, where I am often arranging visuals around the audio, rather than the other way around (where picture lock comes first).

I find that there are lots of these situations where the individual functions are all there, but if you think about it in terms of outcomes and steps to achieve that outcome then it doesn't seem to make much sense or is cumbersome.

I don't know if the tools are just designed to suit a different kind of editor than me, and once again my work isn't likely to be very typical, but they don't seem particularly flexible to suit different styles.

BM are definitely paying attention to this though - the introduction of the Source Tape mode in the Cut page was spectacular in removing literally thousands of keyboard commands when building an assembly from source clips - turning one of my least enjoyable tasks into one of the easiest. I'd like to see them spend time with editors from lots of different situations who work in very different styles and see if they can make the tools more flexible to allow more variety in the ways that people work, not just in the granular functions that are available.
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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostThu Jun 02, 2022 11:17 am

Peter Chamberlain wrote:
rNeil H wrote:I do a high percentage of multicam, plus I LOVE the Production model in Premiere, where all my audio assets, b-roll, sequence templates, graphics and such are "stored" and available for any other project.

Between those two and some of the odd missing bits in Resolve's editing stuff, still do nearly all my edits in Premiere.

checkout Resolve's Power Bins.. turn it on in the View menu

Yep, it was obvious he didn't search anything deeper in Resolve and though I noticed all this was specifically adressed by power bins, it wasn't worth mentioning it imo (while I myself have a huge library of items, super well organised on my DD and the same way in power bins)
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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostThu Jun 02, 2022 12:39 pm

Power bins are not the same, it's far more limited. With power bins you still have to import the footage to every project, in which they just end up unorganised in the master folder after inserting it on the timeline. With productions, you can refer to other timelines and footage in other projects and it doesn't create unnecessary duplicates. You also cannot create timelines in the power bin. These 2 things are already a big difference, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. I would definitely recommend checking it out, It's really an eyeopener and a breeze to work with.

If you just create one huge project in resolve, you can work around these "limitations" (compared to productions) , but in practice that will eventually make it very slow to work with, which is why this productions feature exist.
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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostThu Jun 02, 2022 1:05 pm

I just want to say this thread warms my heart.
Thank you everyone for contributing, listening, and generally being kind and generous to your fellow users in your responses.

Thank you Peter for listening and, oh so wonderful, replying judiciously so we can feel your presence and know we're being heard.

Finally, thank you all for showing me that I'm not just nuts and a crusty old editor who doesn't want to change.
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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostThu Jun 02, 2022 1:14 pm

Rick van den Berg wrote:Power bins are not the same, it's far more limited.


Which is why this can be frustrating -- the Avid NLE model has been refined over many years. There's no need to reinvent features which have been around for a long time. The source/program timeline flexibility and patching in Avid.... Clunker basics like Trim windows which are indisputably useful..... Drag and drop folders and clips in any order, a la FCP 1.26.... The small but useful refinements which have gone into Premiere over 30+ years..... Along with fixing personal peeves like persistent focus in the "wrong" window, when you want/expect the action to be in the timeline....

But Resolve is a comparatively young NLE, and with lots other demands on the developers. Like the main source of revenue, Color. But there's hope!
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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostThu Jun 02, 2022 4:12 pm

I was fully aware of "Power Bins" ... and sadly, their limitations as noted above.

In practical use they aren't nearly even close to Premiere's ability to "store" assets to use completely across projects. Without duplicates or reloading or anything.

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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostSun Jun 05, 2022 12:37 pm

Rick van den Berg wrote:I used to edit in resolve, hoping that these "teething issues" would be fixed quickly, but after a while i went with premiere/avid again, and use resolve primarily for grading. resolve is a great tool, but there are still quite some things which makes editing a little less of a smooth experience (together with some big issues IMO) compared to it's competitors, at least for me. With some small/hobby projects i sometimes give it another go.

Lots of "there's stuff missing / stuff doesn't work" but nobody (except IvanTheEditor who is quite comprehensive about it) is really explaining what's missing or what doesn't work for them.


-i think currently this is for me the biggest thing: i have used many high end/mid range systems, linux, mac, windows, and all of them sooner or later had this very weird issue where the audio cross dissolves in your timeline just suddenly got ignored for some reason by resolve. Only way to solve it was to delete the dissolves and re-apply them. This happened way too often and is a big show stopper, especially with long, complex timelines.

-Then there is the alpha channel weirdness. Hard to explain, i guess you get confronted most of the times with it when using compound clips/nested timelines and some alpha channels / transitions. Try the push effect on a generator, make it a compound clip, move it up a track, add something underneath and see the result.

-Talking about compound clips, you cannot deliver from a nested/compound clip. why?

-"smart" caching.. move all clips 1 frame and you can re-render the entire timeline again.

-you cannot insert a clip from the source viewer with a shortcut without the embedded audio if that clip contains 2 or more channels.

-try adding a stroke to your subtitles.

-The undo system feels very random, sometimes it works, sometimes not, especially with effect plugins, raw settings, luts, etc.

-keyframes/easing in the edit page is maybe the most famous thing

-In/out on the timeline, and then ripple delete works 50% of the times correctly, at least for me.

-The retime process doesn't work on compound clips.

- IMO, the project file system still doesn't feel very efficient when it comes to backing up, but this is quite personal to be fair.

-when dragging a compound clip into the source viewer with the option "decompose compound clip on edit" enabled, the place on top shortcut doesn't actually decompose. It's a small thing, but it adds up.

-playing back a timeline in the source viewer always plays the audio in mono, even if the mix inside that timeline is stereo.

-I love the adobe "productions" feature. This makes multi-episode management easy to handle while keeping flexible. I just added this to this list because it played a big factor when choosing the NLE for some projects.

-multicam is still very basic, i cannot make the multicam viewer bigger, undock it, or send it to a external monitor. When working with a director next to me, this is almost embarrassing.

Or if i want to quickly change an angle, while the source viewer is active, i first have to set it to multicam view, and then i can click on an angle to change it. why can't i change an angle when clicking in the "normal" source viewer? This last thing isn't huge, but it's just the "why"

-MXF OP1a..
It is the broadcast standard for delivery. And it's completely unreliable. This is not system related anymore, i tested this with a lot of different computers. In one resolve version it seemed to be fixed, and the next version the issue was back, and then it was fixed, and then it came back.. I'm not taking the risk anymore.


I think i can go on a little more, but these came up the quickest. Some are minor things, no big deal, but all of them together, it adds up if you are working as a full time editor. For some there are workarounds, for some not. Don't get me wrong, i enjoy using resolve, also the edit page. but editing hasn't been the most reliable/predictable experience for me. which is why i'm using the old round-tripping way again for more serious projects.

But hey, it's a great thing that we can choose our tools!


All of these things are real problems, and I really hope they get fixed. That being said, resolve is still my preferred editing system. Why? Premiere is to unreliable for my taste, avid is a powerful editor but I need more than it offers. Manipulation of image (and sound in fairlight) is extremely powerful. Tracking keying motionblur denoising grading compositing and many more. It is all a click away. So an traditional offline editor will stick to avid, someone with an more broader approach to editing (like me) will love Resolve.
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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostSun Jun 05, 2022 12:42 pm

Tekkerue wrote:Since you quoted my comment, I did actually provide one of my feature request threads here as well (see the link at the end):


Sorry, you actually did and it's a very comprehensive post that I remember reading. So, yes, you are not just moaning without anything to back it up, at all.
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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostMon Jun 06, 2022 12:27 pm

Great topic. I could learn a couple of things.
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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostSat Jun 11, 2022 4:38 am

Gordonjcp wrote:
Tekkerue wrote:Since you quoted my comment, I did actually provide one of my feature request threads here as well (see the link at the end):

Sorry, you actually did and it's a very comprehensive post that I remember reading. So, yes, you are not just moaning without anything to back it up, at all.

Thank you! :)

And I can only speak for myself, but I don't always rehash everything I've brought up in other threads. So just because everything isn't fully explained in this particular thread that doesn't mean anyone here is moaning without anything to back it up. I assume that anyone who is dissatisfied with the Edit page could list off many problems they have with it.

I've only been using Resolve since January, but I've seen from others that the Edit page hasn't received any significant updates in several years. I don't think it's a big secret that the edit page is a weak point of Resolve and difficult to work with. This thread seems like a generalized summary (venting? :lol:) of these frustrations rather than providing a massive list of specific improvements.
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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostSat Jun 11, 2022 5:53 am

Hi Joe, i'm at my office, and begin to full edit with Resolve here. I have GTX and RTX.
WhatsApp Image 2022-06-11 at 12.43.13 PM.jpeg
WhatsApp Image 2022-06-11 at 12.43.13 PM.jpeg (118.67 KiB) Viewed 6731 times

Yes, i'm fulltime video editor and graphic designer, but i'm just an antusiast user, not profesional user.
Resolve and Premiere are just tools. If it usefull and worth, use it. If not, forget it. :D
---
For me, Premiere is Best ui and ux video editor, and Resolve is worst ui and ux (just my opinion) but i begin to love it.
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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostSat Jun 11, 2022 6:28 am

Depends, for small projects I mostly use Resolve, even though it lacks some small but important features, like failing to refresh changed assets, or solving the problem of me having to play with my balls while DR is exporting a file.

For big projects however, I just can't risk diving butt first knowing Resolve will definitely have some sort of sharp object waiting for my butt down the well.
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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostWed Jul 06, 2022 1:25 am

Hi there! Relationship with DR feels like painful love. :lol: So many pros along with many absurd cons. If BMD will listen to community more careful and fix some basic stuff, they gona rule the world of post-production.
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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostWed Jul 06, 2022 7:39 pm

It is so mind numbing editing in Resolve...

Can't rename a timeline without a track.
To copy(duplicate) a text clip from one track to another track is a mystery.
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Re: Who is primarily an editor and using Resolve to edit?

PostWed Jul 06, 2022 11:54 pm

While I too would love to see the edit page get more attention (and hopefully script based editing), I absolutely love the entire Resolve 17 workflow. While not yet working on features, I’ve don’t some fairly sophisticated projects completely in Resolve. The Speed editor for me is a game changer, and I hope it gets developed further. I recently had to edit 750 hours of time lapse footage for a world famous artist’s installation into a 2 minute promo in 5 days. I don’t know how I could have gotten it done were it not for the speed editor and Cuts page.

There are plenty of times when I needed to grade shots before edit to see if they can be saved, due to exposure or cropping/focus issues. The ability to do some work in the Color Page before editing is very helpful.

I am planning a feature soon and whatever issues may come up, I’m happy to stay in Resolve, except for audio sweetening and repair, which Goes to Izotope RX Advanced.

I come from FCP 1.0-7.0 (and Premier before that) so it was a natural transition to use Resolve for editorial starting in 2016.

One could dismiss my enthusiasm since I’m fully invested in Resolve, having the Advanced Panels, which are vastly improved with the V2 keycaps.
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