Activating 10-bit HDR viewer in Windows?

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jgharding

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Activating 10-bit HDR viewer in Windows?

PostTue Apr 05, 2022 1:39 pm

Hi all

Context: making a living with video, 7 years using Resolve, love it, searched forum and am still unclear.

***

Am I right in thinking that Resolve on Mac can display an HDR viewer but Windows machines running Resolve can't? If so, this a problem.

I'm running Windows on a brand new LG C2 4K 120Hz HDR OLED. It's a spectacular screen and a great choice for people working in HDR who don't want to break the bank. Sadly I can't seem to make the main viewer work as HDR in Resolve and am wondering if I am just missing something.

I've been searching for hours, and all I can find are examples of a single tickbox option to enable it on Mac, which is not present on Windows (plus the usual stuff about Decklinks and other gatekeeping).

So I'd just like to confirm: does Resolve not allow Windows users to have an HDR main viewer window, or am I just missing something? If so I'll submit as a feature request.

To make things worse, I've also discovered Premiere can do this on Windows with no additional hardware and one tickbox.

Since I don't want to downgrade my HDMI to 2.0, I don't have a spare PCIe anyway for a decklink anyway and generally don't believe in pouring money into working around software problems, unless I'm missing something I'm going to have to use Premiere for HDR edits, which is a shame as I've been a Resolve advocate for about 7 years.

Here's a small photo of the setting, and below it a photo of an SDR screen showing the timeline clipped out, as you'd expect trying to display HDR range on an SDR monitor.

HDR upload is available to everyone on YouTube now. HDR monitors are becoming less and less expensive and features this are key to keeping people using the software. The all too common "go and buy a decklink and a 10k grading monitor" response is not a solution.

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mpetech

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Re: Activating 10-bit HDR viewer in Windows?

PostTue Apr 05, 2022 6:22 pm

The Resolve application itself within Windows cannot display HDR video. You must output via BM hardware to an HDR display like an LG OLED
.
A BM mini monitor + any HDR TV will cost you less than $500. If not fewer.
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peterjackson

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Re: Activating 10-bit HDR viewer in Windows?

PostWed Apr 06, 2022 5:08 am

mpetech wrote:The Resolve application itself within Windows cannot display HDR video. You must output via BM hardware to an HDR display like an LG OLED
.
A BM mini monitor + any HDR TV will cost you less than $500. If not fewer.
Did you even read the post?
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NathanBray

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Re: Activating 10-bit HDR viewer in Windows?

PostWed Apr 06, 2022 5:30 am

I was in the same boat (except I was new to Resolve). The short answer is "No". In the end I had to buy the Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K Mini (but you need to have a Thunderbolt port available on your PC).

I edit on two Philips 436M6 1000Nit HDR Displays. One is connected to the 3090, the other to the Ultrastudio 4K. It's even funnier that I run Win11 with HDR turned on all the time, but yet DR will not output a HDR preview without additional HW.
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peterjackson

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Re: Activating 10-bit HDR viewer in Windows?

PostWed Apr 06, 2022 6:42 am

Just a business decision from BMD to keep GUI viewers at the poor state they are. Nobe Display already does better, maybe someday it will support HDR mode.

GUI viewers have vsync issues, general performance issues, and 10 bit support and HDR is poor or non existant.

If I needed HDR, I'd probably buy some Decklink thing, a HDR capture card and would code myself an app that toggles HDR in Windows and displays the capture in real time.

Stupid as BMD could just sell something like that as software products, but they decided not do. So we need to pollute the planet with pointless redundant hardware to make things work as in other NLEs.
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mpetech

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Re: Activating 10-bit HDR viewer in Windows?

PostWed Apr 06, 2022 1:21 pm

peterjackson wrote:
mpetech wrote:The Resolve application itself within Windows cannot display HDR video. You must output via BM hardware to an HDR display like an LG OLED
.
A BM mini monitor + any HDR TV will cost you less than $500. If not fewer.
Did you even read the post?


What part of my reply does not address his question?
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jgharding

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Re: Activating 10-bit HDR viewer in Windows?

PostWed Apr 13, 2022 12:24 pm

It's so frustrating cos you can activate HDR in the viewer on a normal Mac laptop, and I'm sat here with twin 3090s being told I need to go and buy some hardware to activate the same thing on Windows. :roll:

For the level I'm working at, I'm happy with the tradeoff of using GPU out vs a dedicated viewer card.

I'll just use Premiere for HDR things i guess. That's really disappointing. :oops:
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mpetech

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Re: Activating 10-bit HDR viewer in Windows?

PostWed Apr 13, 2022 2:05 pm

jgharding wrote:It's so frustrating cos you can activate HDR in the viewer on a normal Mac laptop, and I'm sat here with twin 3090s being told I need to go and buy some hardware to activate the same thing on Windows. :roll:

For the level I'm working at, I'm happy with the tradeoff of using GPU out vs a dedicated viewer card.

I'll just use Premiere for HDR things i guess. That's really disappointing. :oops:


Unfortunately, Windows HDR implementation is a bit of a mess.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Activating 10-bit HDR viewer in Windows?

PostWed Apr 13, 2022 9:20 pm

If your TV had option to manually force HDR mode than it could be done.
As far as I know LG TVs can't be manually put into HDR mode, so this makes things difficult.
If you work on paid projects then 200$ on MiniMonitor 4K is not a showstopper.
You had money for 2x 3090 :)
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jgharding

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Re: Activating 10-bit HDR viewer in Windows?

PostFri Apr 15, 2022 2:42 pm

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:If your TV had option to manually force HDR mode than it could be done.
As far as I know LG TVs can't be manually put into HDR mode, so this makes things difficult.
If you work on paid projects then 200$ on MiniMonitor 4K is not a showstopper.
You had money for 2x 3090 :)


It's less a money thing and more practicality. Firstly I can't actually fit a mini monitor 4K in my case due to the twin 3090s, i MAY be able to squeeze a riser in there, maybe but really I'd need a whole new case.

Also this main TV serves as my main monitor for all programmes. if I use that as a grading only screen I then have to put some other monitor just to use the programme, and again I'm reluctant to do so regardless of it not being possible physically in my workspace as a Mac laptop that costs far less would let me do it.

Again, I don't think it's a solution to have people to buy new hardware and rearrange their whole setup in order to do something that works already in Resolve for Mac AND works in Premiere on PC with one click.

Same goes for the comments on Windows HDR being a mess. Sure, it is in 10, though seems better in 11, but still. It works in Premiere sooooooo... it can work. Just not in Resolve sadly. It's a real bummer as I was looking forward to it.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Activating 10-bit HDR viewer in Windows?

PostFri Apr 15, 2022 3:19 pm

It can be done, but when it's done in app like Resolve it should be reliable (10bit, accurate etc.).
BM simply doesn't want to put resources to it, specially when they sell hardware cards. Mac support was probably "forced" by Apple (also OSX has better tech behind their engine I think).
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Re: Activating 10-bit HDR viewer in Windows?

PostFri Apr 15, 2022 9:48 pm

It was probably in preparation for the new screens by Apple, which are pretty accurate, even if not pro grade.
But since probably 98% of users (or more) are on Windows, BM doesn't care. They have to generate income to pay their devs, and they do it by selling hardware. Or would you like to pay monthly for the software?
The software may be free, but the hardware needed for smooth performance is not.

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Jim Simon

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Re: Activating 10-bit HDR viewer in Windows?

PostSat Apr 16, 2022 2:42 pm

jgharding wrote:I don't think it's a solution to have people to buy new hardware...
I think it is, even for Mac users.

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Uli Plank

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Re: Activating 10-bit HDR viewer in Windows?

PostSat Apr 16, 2022 9:25 pm

Yes, if you work at a professional level.
But the presets on the M1 laptops (the ones with mini LED) are remarkably good.
For personal projects I use it most of the time now, by having the GUI on a large external screen.
The software may be free, but the hardware needed for smooth performance is not.

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Dermot Shane

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Re: Activating 10-bit HDR viewer in Windows?

PostSun Apr 17, 2022 1:40 am

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:If your TV had option to manually force HDR mode than it could be done.
As far as I know LG TVs can't be manually put into HDR mode, so this makes things difficult.
If you work on paid projects then 200$ on MiniMonitor 4K is not a showstopper.
You had money for 2x 3090 :)


forceing a LG C X/1/2 into PQ2084 is easy,
useing the remote, go to picture, press 1,1,1,3,1,1,1
then a menu appears that allows you to chose gamma 2.4/HLG/PQ and peak nits
takes about 10 seconds after a bit getting around it the first few times
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Activating 10-bit HDR viewer in Windows?

PostSun Apr 17, 2022 7:17 pm

Ok, then things are easier. You just need bit of verification/measure and maybe it can be done.
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arconz

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Re: Activating 10-bit HDR viewer in Windows?

PostWed Aug 17, 2022 1:14 am

Uli Plank wrote:It was probably in preparation for the new screens by Apple, which are pretty accurate, even if not pro grade.
But since probably 98% of users (or more) are on Windows, BM doesn't care. They have to generate income to pay their devs, and they do it by selling hardware. Or would you like to pay monthly for the software?


The fact that people are replying saying "they'll stick with Premiere" should tell you there are people like myself who would prefer to pay BM subscription if it could compete.

There's a huge number of content creators who only have space for one big monitor, or have a proper studio but might want to edit HDR when mobile. I get that BM needs to sell hardware to make money, but they're falling behind in this area.

This is before getting into the issue of deceptive marketing - Resolve Studio cannot grade HDR as without multiple additional hardware items, none of which is mentioned in marketing AFAIK.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Activating 10-bit HDR viewer in Windows?

PostWed Aug 17, 2022 9:44 am

Starting to think about whole hardware argument. Makes no sense as their hardware is cheap, so there is really not that much profit there. As said in the past. Instead of forcing people to buy hardware which quite often they simply don’t need/ can’t fit give 50$ paid extra license with needed functionality. There will be 100x more people willing to do this than buy a card.

With latest announcement of 10bit GUI preview HDR should be doable. It would need proper accuracy verification though. There are also other issue like video sync ( need of switching monitor to project fps), etc. Still for those who really want it could work.
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arconz

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Re: Activating 10-bit HDR viewer in Windows?

PostFri Aug 19, 2022 11:53 pm

Agree completely on the potential profit BM is missing out on.

Being mid-project I haven't installed 18.x yet but just noticed that feature line: "Support for 10-bit viewers on Windows and Linux in Studio." I'm guessing that just means 1.07 billion color support for smooth gradients but not native HLG support like in Premiere.

I'm not getting the accuracy verification debate... they can already output Rec 2020 via card or even in-app on Apple. There are no quality controls with monitors - their current card can still produce garbage if the external monitor is incorrectly configured or has weak gamut support, that will always be a user issue.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Activating 10-bit HDR viewer in Windows?

PostSat Aug 20, 2022 10:48 am

Well, nothing can fix "poor monitor". Separate issue.
How you feed monitor is another story. It can be verified and either you can make it working or not. With card it's more like P&P (although sometimes it's not at all), with GUI it's more tricky. On Mac for prosumer needs it's way easier though.
There are tools which offer good GUI preview, just Resolve is not one of them. If you can put card, if not you can still do it, just a harder way. I'm excluding interlaced preview as this is more a legacy thing now.

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