Davinci Resolve 18.0.1 - Managed Color Space Bug

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herein2020

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Davinci Resolve 18.0.1 - Managed Color Space Bug

PostSun Aug 14, 2022 11:53 pm

Hello,

I have found a bug in Davinci Resolve 18.0.1 BUILD 3. When using managed color the color management of the managed clip applies to the clip above it if the clip above it does not completely cover the managed color space clip. I tested this by both moving the top clip to the left or right slightly and by cropping the top clip, in each instance, the color space from the bottom clip immediately applied to the top clip. Below are the repro steps.

1. Create a new project
2. Go to File > Project Settings > Color Management
3. Color Science > DaVinci YRGB Color Managed
4. Color Processing Mode > SDR
5. Output color space > SDR Rec.709
6. Click Save
7. Add a clip on the timeline then duplicate the clip and place the duplicate exactly above the first clip on the timeline
8. Go to the color panel > select the bottom clip > Input Color Space > select your color space. For my camera I selected Canon Cinema Gamut/Canon Log 3
9. Select the top clip > Bypass color management

You should now have a color managed clip on the bottom on the timeline and an ungraded clip on the top on the timeline.

In the output window you will see the ungraded clip which is as it should be since the top clip is not color managed. To see the bug, perform the following steps:

1. Go to the timeline view > Cropping > Crop Left by a little bit. What you should see is the left edge of the bottom clip's color grading showing through. Instead, the entire top clip immediately inherits the color management of the bottom clip.

I am making a camera review video and I am trying to show the difference between straight out of camera clips vs color graded clips; a common way to do this is to make the color grade appear to sweep across the ungraded clip. I have used this method many times before using LUTs but this is the first time I have tried this with managed color and it is impossible to do with this current behavior.

When I go back to LUTs and simply use a LUT on the bottom clip then crop using keyframes on the top clip it works properly. I also tested this with two completely different clips and it did the same thing....top clip immediately inherited the color from the bottom clip.

As shown below, with a LUT everything works properly, the top clip reveals the color graded clip below as the crop increases for the top clip.

LUT-Results.JPG
LUT-Results.JPG (518.46 KiB) Viewed 928 times


As shown below, when the bottom clip is color managed, the exact crop from before now causes the top clip to inherit the color from the bottom clip, making it impossible to see the ungraded portion of the clip.

ColorManaged-Results.JPG
ColorManaged-Results.JPG (565.76 KiB) Viewed 928 times


I think this would be a bigger problem if say you shot with two different cameras and they had different log profiles and you wanted to do a PIP video...the color management from the bottom clip would break the clip placed over it.
SW: Windows 10 21H1, DR 18.0.1 BUILD 3 Studio
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Jim Simon

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Re: Davinci Resolve 18.0.1 - Managed Color Space Bug

PostMon Aug 15, 2022 1:42 pm

I'm seeing the same in Studio 18.0.1 on Windows 10.

If I disable the clip on V1, then I can see the ungraded cropped clip on V2.
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Steve Alexander

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Re: Davinci Resolve 18.0.1 - Managed Color Space Bug

PostMon Aug 15, 2022 2:11 pm

Its worth noting that any operation that causes the two clips to composite (mix) will trigger this issue (even just slightly adjust the opacity of the top clip or move (translate) the top clip slightly.

I am seeing this on my MacBook as well (see my signature) with Monterey 12.5.
Resolve Studio 18.0.4 | Fusion Studio 18.0.4 | Win 11 Pro (21H2) | i9-7940x, P4000 (471.41, 8GB VRAM), 64GB RAM, M.2 boot, SSD scratch, RAID10 data | (laptop) 16" MacBook Pro M1 MAX, 32 GPU cores, 64 GB RAM, 2 TB SSD, Monterey 12.5.1
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Steve Alexander

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Re: Davinci Resolve 18.0.1 - Managed Color Space Bug

PostMon Aug 15, 2022 2:23 pm

One workaround is to render-in-place the top clip (without the crop) baking in the color grade and then you can do the crop (wipe) to get the effect you intend (to show the before/after of the grade).

One other thing that I noticed with this is that the duplicate clip also inherits the input color space and gamma so that if you change it one one of the two clips, both clips will reflect the change. The duplicate clip is not truly independent in this regard. Not sure if this is a bug. I'd have to read-up on how Resolve treats duplicate clips.
Resolve Studio 18.0.4 | Fusion Studio 18.0.4 | Win 11 Pro (21H2) | i9-7940x, P4000 (471.41, 8GB VRAM), 64GB RAM, M.2 boot, SSD scratch, RAID10 data | (laptop) 16" MacBook Pro M1 MAX, 32 GPU cores, 64 GB RAM, 2 TB SSD, Monterey 12.5.1
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Jeffrey D Mathias

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Re: Davinci Resolve 18.0.1 - Managed Color Space Bug

PostMon Aug 15, 2022 2:30 pm

Maybe this behavior is normal.

How was the second clip made? Is it just a copy (metadata) or does it exist as new media?
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Steve Alexander

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Re: Davinci Resolve 18.0.1 - Managed Color Space Bug

PostMon Aug 15, 2022 2:54 pm

Jeffrey D Mathias wrote:Maybe this behavior is normal.

How was the second clip made? Is it just a copy (metadata) or does it exist as new media?


The OP copied the clip. Maybe this is normal but it means that duplicate clips can’t be processed completely in independently. It’s worth knowing this ahead of time if this is by design. Sounds more like an unintended consequence, IMO.
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Jeffrey D Mathias

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Re: Davinci Resolve 18.0.1 - Managed Color Space Bug

PostMon Aug 15, 2022 4:55 pm

ah... here is another thought:
If no color "correction" has been made, then disabling the clip or even bypassing the entire color grade will not toggle the color management. (this is so whether DaVinci or ACES management.)

Bypass and Disable only toggles a grade. If you want the log camera displayed then management will need to be turned off... or an appropriate color transform used... which could be done clip by clip using node based color management instead.
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Jim Simon

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Re: Davinci Resolve 18.0.1 - Managed Color Space Bug

PostTue Aug 16, 2022 1:36 pm

Jeffrey D Mathias wrote:Bypass and Disable only toggles a grade. If you want the log camera displayed then management will need to be turned off.
If I right click the clip and select Bypass Color Management, I do see the original Log footage.

It's only when that Log is composited with a clip that is still being Managed that things go weird.
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Jeffrey D Mathias

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Re: Davinci Resolve 18.0.1 - Managed Color Space Bug

PostTue Aug 16, 2022 1:56 pm

Jim,
Same here, if I right click the clip and select Bypass...

However, if I select the button "Bypass Color Grades and Fusion Effects" or if I use the "Disable" button on the micro panel the color management remains and only the grade is toggled.

so yes, one would think that all might do the same.

Although in the large scheme of things I do very much prefer to have the color management results be shown when I disable the grade. For me this is important and helpful in my workflow.
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Re: Davinci Resolve 18.0.1 - Managed Color Space Bug

PostTue Aug 16, 2022 7:11 pm

Steve Alexander wrote:Its worth noting that any operation that causes the two clips to composite (mix) will trigger this issue (even just slightly adjust the opacity of the top clip or move (translate) the top clip slightly.

I am seeing this on my MacBook as well (see my signature) with Monterey 12.5.


I discovered this as well, opacity and anything that affects the compositing of the clips affects the color of the top clip.

Jeffrey D Mathias wrote:ah... here is another thought:
If no color "correction" has been made, then disabling the clip or even bypassing the entire color grade will not toggle the color management. (this is so whether DaVinci or ACES management.)

Bypass and Disable only toggles a grade. If you want the log camera displayed then management will need to be turned off... or an appropriate color transform used... which could be done clip by clip using node based color management instead.


But it does not seem to work that way in my display. If I bypass color management and do not apply any color corrections to the clip then the source log footage is shown. The menu specifically states "Bypass Color Management" so it is indeed bypassing color management, it is how I test LUTs vs color management, I add a LUT to a node then toggle the node off and on and bypass color management off and on.

You will only see the "Bypass Color Management" menu option if you have enabled color management then right click the clip in the Color panel > Bypass Color Management, this is different from bypassing the color grade.

Jeffrey D Mathias wrote:Maybe this behavior is normal.

How was the second clip made? Is it just a copy (metadata) or does it exist as new media?


I tried both, two different clips and duplicating a single clip on the same timeline. Both ways resulted in the same behavior. When the clips were duplicated on the same timeline though, changing the Input color space did affect both copies of the clip so they are still linked in some way.

However, when I used two completely different clips, they were no longer linked by input color space, however, the application of the color management to the top clip still continued to work the same way.

At the end of the day, I have a hard time believing this is by design, as I mentioned previously, if I had two clips from two different cameras and one was shot in CLOG3 and the other was shot in VLOG, there would be no way to composite the two together when using color management because the bottom clip would always affect the color of the top clip. It would get worse the more clips that are stacked on the timeline.

I also did one more test, and added a LUT to the top clip but selected "Bypass Color Management" on the top clip then cropped it slightly. Immediately the color management from the bottom clip PLUS the LUT applied to the top clip applied; completely ruining the color grade.
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Re: Davinci Resolve 18.0.1 - Managed Color Space Bug

PostTue Aug 16, 2022 7:39 pm

Did you try the workaround I suggested just to get you past this (allowing you to complete your tutorial)?
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Re: Davinci Resolve 18.0.1 - Managed Color Space Bug

PostTue Aug 16, 2022 10:18 pm

Steve Alexander wrote:Did you try the workaround I suggested just to get you past this (allowing you to complete your tutorial)?


I tested it, it does work, thank you for the workaround. It will just add more time to the project that I have already wasted so much time on due to fiddling with this feature because for some reason it only renders at 4fps, so I might just do the before and after a few times to save time vs how many times I had planned.

I also tried creating a compound clip for the bottom clip because that usually fixes weirdness like this, but that did not work either.
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Re: Davinci Resolve 18.0.1 - Managed Color Space Bug

PostTue Aug 16, 2022 11:44 pm

Glad that worked. This is very odd behaviour you have reported. I’m not happy with it but maybe I’m missing something. Hopefully BMD will chime in.
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Re: Davinci Resolve 18.0.1 - Managed Color Space Bug

PostWed Aug 17, 2022 2:07 am

Might be a Windows only issue. Mac installations seem to be free from this bug.
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Re: Davinci Resolve 18.0.1 - Managed Color Space Bug

PostWed Aug 17, 2022 2:46 am

No it isn’t. I can reproduce.
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Re: Davinci Resolve 18.0.1 - Managed Color Space Bug

PostWed Aug 17, 2022 6:48 am

Interesting.... I can not reproduce.
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Re: Davinci Resolve 18.0.1 - Managed Color Space Bug

PostWed Aug 17, 2022 11:48 am

What sort of footage did you use, Peter? I am using Canon CLog3 / Cinema Gamut - Presumably it shouldn't matter.

I did the following:

1. Setup project to use Resolve Color Management with the wide gamut intermediate timeline and output to Rec709
2. Place a clip on V1 and then set its color space and gamma to the appropriate values for the Canon source
3. Option + drag to V2 just the video portion to duplicate it
3. Select the clip on V2 and right-click and disable color management for the clip (now the clip looks flat)
4. With the clip on V2 still selected, use the inspector to modify (reduce) opacity of the clip and as soon as opacity is less than 100, the color of the clip is no longer flat (it gets its full color managed appearance as if RCM was enabled for the clip on V2). This is the reported anomaly (bug?).

The OP reported this when changing the crop of the clip on V2 but any action that causes Resolve to apply a composite between the clips on V1 and V2 appears to have this effect.
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Re: Davinci Resolve 18.0.1 - Managed Color Space Bug

PostWed Aug 17, 2022 10:57 pm

Steve Alexander wrote:Glad that worked. This is very odd behaviour you have reported. I’m not happy with it but maybe I’m missing something. Hopefully BMD will chime in.


Yes, it definitely does work, and after I turned off the Fusion and Effects rendering in the Render in Place options it goes a lot faster so I am back on track....thanks again.

I am not that familiar with Render in Place though, the default resolution is rendering to 720p and 8bit color, in the final render are those clips going to be 4K like the rest of the project? Or should I Render in Place at 4K since the project is 4K? I can't tell if DR will replace those clips with the originals during the output render and I couldn't find the exact details of what happens during the output render in DR's documentation for the feature.
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Re: Davinci Resolve 18.0.1 - Managed Color Space Bug

PostThu Aug 18, 2022 1:16 am

That's a really good question about the render-in-place. My guess is that you should render-in-place with a higher quality (delivery resolution, etc) because it is probably the render-in-place that gets transcoded to the output (and not the source) but I don't actually know for certain.

I would suggest testing by performing a render-in-place at a notably low quality (resolution, bitrate, etc) and then outputting on the delivery page and see if the low quality follows to your delivery. This will tell you whether or not you should render-in-place at your delivery resolution / bitrate / quality.

If you get a chance to test this, I would be very interested to hear your results.

Cheers
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Re: Davinci Resolve 18.0.1 - Managed Color Space Bug

PostFri Aug 19, 2022 1:16 am

Steve Alexander wrote:What sort of footage did you use, Peter? I am using Canon CLog3 / Cinema Gamut - Presumably it shouldn't matter.

I did the following:

1. Setup project to use Resolve Color Management with the wide gamut intermediate timeline and output to Rec709
2. Place a clip on V1 and then set its color space and gamma to the appropriate values for the Canon source
3. Option + drag to V2 just the video portion to duplicate it
3. Select the clip on V2 and right-click and disable color management for the clip (now the clip looks flat)
4. With the clip on V2 still selected, use the inspector to modify (reduce) opacity of the clip and as soon as opacity is less than 100, the color of the clip is no longer flat (it gets its full color managed appearance as if RCM was enabled for the clip on V2). This is the reported anomaly (bug?).

The OP reported this when changing the crop of the clip on V2 but any action that causes Resolve to apply a composite between the clips on V1 and V2 appears to have this effect.


I now see the issue. It only occurs when repositioning, cropping or changing opacity of the clip.
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Re: Davinci Resolve 18.0.1 - Managed Color Space Bug

PostFri Aug 19, 2022 10:15 am

Peter Cave wrote:
Steve Alexander wrote:What sort of footage did you use, Peter? I am using Canon CLog3 / Cinema Gamut - Presumably it shouldn't matter.

I did the following:

1. Setup project to use Resolve Color Management with the wide gamut intermediate timeline and output to Rec709
2. Place a clip on V1 and then set its color space and gamma to the appropriate values for the Canon source
3. Option + drag to V2 just the video portion to duplicate it
3. Select the clip on V2 and right-click and disable color management for the clip (now the clip looks flat)
4. With the clip on V2 still selected, use the inspector to modify (reduce) opacity of the clip and as soon as opacity is less than 100, the color of the clip is no longer flat (it gets its full color managed appearance as if RCM was enabled for the clip on V2). This is the reported anomaly (bug?).

The OP reported this when changing the crop of the clip on V2 but any action that causes Resolve to apply a composite between the clips on V1 and V2 appears to have this effect.


I now see the issue. It only occurs when repositioning, cropping or changing opacity of the clip.


Yes that's correct. I wonder if earlier versions of DR do the same thing.
SW: Windows 10 21H1, DR 18.0.1 BUILD 3 Studio
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