Function request: Avid Artist Color knobs Temp/Tint/MD...

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SerafimSalnikov

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Function request: Avid Artist Color knobs Temp/Tint/MD...

PostSun Sep 25, 2016 9:14 pm

Please add this parameters to panel knobs mapping!
Davinci_temp_tint.png
Davinci_temp_tint.png (18.69 KiB) Viewed 2558 times

This parameters available on Tangent Elements, but not on Avid Artist Color / Euphonix MC Color panel
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Scott McKenzie

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Re: Function request: Avid Artist Color knobs Temp/Tint/MD..

PostMon Sep 26, 2016 6:19 pm

+1 to this. Would also be very nice to see these controls on the Tangent Wave. There's plenty of room next to the offset controls.
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Dermot Shane

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Re: Function request: Avid Artist Color knobs Temp/Tint/MD..

PostMon Sep 26, 2016 7:46 pm

SerafimSalnikov wrote:Please add this parameters to panel knobs mapping!
Davinci_temp_tint.png

This parameters available on Tangent Elements, but not on Avid Artist Color / Euphonix MC Color panel

+1

i'm using with MidiTwister mapped to prim/2 to get the same functionality, and it works surpriseingly well, but would prefer to have the tools inside Color
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Blake LaFarm

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Re: Function request: Avid Artist Color knobs Temp/Tint/MD..

PostWed Sep 28, 2016 6:04 am

+1
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Mark Sterne

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Re: Function request: Avid Artist Color knobs Temp/Tint/MD..

PostWed Sep 28, 2016 6:19 am

+1
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waltervolpatto

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Re: Function request: Avid Artist Color knobs Temp/Tint/MD..

PostWed Sep 28, 2016 2:09 pm

m2c, with some sarcasm..m

...get a ramp, [0 - 1023]

set the color temperature to a desired [random] value and the tint to another [random] value.

look at the resulting ramp.

now, grab a still of that and try to match it with the gain ball.

it is 100% matchable and faster. you really don't need that control, just learn to color correct....
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Re: Function request: Avid Artist Color knobs Temp/Tint/MD..

PostThu Sep 29, 2016 4:52 am

waltervolpatto wrote:it is 100% matchable and faster. you really don't need that control, just learn to color correct....

I can verify Walter is correct on this.
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Erik Wittbusch

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Re: Function request: Avid Artist Color knobs Temp/Tint/MD..

PostThu Sep 29, 2016 6:56 am

+1

I'll never use it.
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SerafimSalnikov

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Re: Function request: Avid Artist Color knobs Temp/Tint/MD..

PostTue Oct 11, 2016 5:26 pm

waltervolpatto wrote:m2c, with some sarcasm..m

...get a ramp, [0 - 1023]

set the color temperature to a desired [random] value and the tint to another [random] value.

look at the resulting ramp.

now, grab a still of that and try to match it with the gain ball.

it is 100% matchable and faster. you really don't need that control, just learn to color correct....


I don't ask you to teach me how to color grade!
i want to work with this knobs and parameters on my homy MC color panel the same way, as on my Elements panel in my Office/Studio!

Temperature + tint knobs do the same job as an Offset ball/control.
They're work not the same way as Gain ball!!!
They're affect overall image from dark shadows to highlights the same way as Exposure (Offset) control!!!
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Re: Function request: Avid Artist Color knobs Temp/Tint/MD..

PostTue Oct 11, 2016 6:12 pm

SerafimSalnikov wrote:
waltervolpatto wrote:m2c, with some sarcasm..m

...get a ramp, [0 - 1023]

set the color temperature to a desired [random] value and the tint to another [random] value.

look at the resulting ramp.

now, grab a still of that and try to match it with the gain ball.

it is 100% matchable and faster. you really don't need that control, just learn to color correct....


I don't ask you to teach me how to color grade!
i want to work with this knobs and parameters on my homy MC color panel the same way, as on my Elements panel in my Office/Studio!

Temperature + tint knobs do the same job as an Offset ball/control.
They're work not the same way as Gain ball!!!
They're affect overall image from dark shadows to highlights the same way as Exposure (Offset) control!!!


Walter is right, exclamation marks notwithstanding The Temp/Tint knobs do not work like a master offset adjustment. They mimick the use of the gain ball along the warm/cold and green/magenta axis respectively. If you don't believe it, perform the test with a greyscale ramp and look at the Parade. You will see that Temp/Tint have no effect whatsoever on the shadows, just like the gain ball. I am doing it right now as I write this and gain matches perfectly with temp/tint adjustments. Offset is a completely different animal.

To be fair, I do like to use the temp/tint controls from time to time, as it gives me a constrained adjustment. But I always end up refining with the gain ball.
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waltervolpatto

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Re: Function request: Avid Artist Color knobs Temp/Tint/MD..

PostTue Oct 11, 2016 6:28 pm

SerafimSalnikov wrote:
waltervolpatto wrote:m2c, with some sarcasm..m

...get a ramp, [0 - 1023]

set the color temperature to a desired [random] value and the tint to another [random] value.

look at the resulting ramp.

now, grab a still of that and try to match it with the gain ball.

it is 100% matchable and faster. you really don't need that control, just learn to color correct....


I don't ask you to teach me how to color grade!
i want to work with this knobs and parameters on my homy MC color panel the same way, as on my Elements panel in my Office/Studio!

Temperature + tint knobs do the same job as an Offset ball/control.
They're work not the same way as Gain ball!!!
They're affect overall image from dark shadows to highlights the same way as Exposure (Offset) control!!!


i don't pretend to "teach" somebody else what i barely know.

just point out the fact. math is a bitch.
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SerafimSalnikov

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Re: Function request: Avid Artist Color knobs Temp/Tint/MD..

PostTue Oct 11, 2016 7:00 pm

waltervolpatto wrote:
SerafimSalnikov wrote:
waltervolpatto wrote:m2c, with some sarcasm..m

...get a ramp, [0 - 1023]

set the color temperature to a desired [random] value and the tint to another [random] value.

look at the resulting ramp.

now, grab a still of that and try to match it with the gain ball.

it is 100% matchable and faster. you really don't need that control, just learn to color correct....


I don't ask you to teach me how to color grade!
i want to work with this knobs and parameters on my homy MC color panel the same way, as on my Elements panel in my Office/Studio!

Temperature + tint knobs do the same job as an Offset ball/control.
They're work not the same way as Gain ball!!!
They're affect overall image from dark shadows to highlights the same way as Exposure (Offset) control!!!


i don't pretend to "teach" somebody else what i barely know.

just point out the fact. math is a bitch.


Ok.
Just made the test with ramp.
My mistake.
(in lightroom/speedgrade temperature control goes the different way)

BUT - 99% of grading time i work with LOG-encoded media.
1) In practice - values of LOG-encoded media lay in the middle of waveform.
So when i use Temp/tint controls in first node and contrast/levels adjustments (or LOG-rec709_LUT) at the end of node tree - Temp/tint adjustment looks more like offset.

2) Temp/tint controls are fastest way to control balance.
3) With temp control i can easily affect only cold/warm axis, not involving green/magenta axis!
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waltervolpatto

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Re: Function request: Avid Artist Color knobs Temp/Tint/MD..

PostTue Oct 11, 2016 8:29 pm

I work in log too, if I do the math, a real offset is closet to a colour temperature shift than the WB control.

if you have the 4th ball with offset then is faster than the WB, if you don't (because the panel does not show it) then I can understand the desire.

it works in the same way in log, but because the range is compressed in the muffle of the color space it feels like it is an offset. is not, you're multiplying a log value (gain).
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SerafimSalnikov

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Re: Function request: Avid Artist Color knobs Temp/Tint/MD..

PostTue Oct 11, 2016 9:33 pm

waltervolpatto wrote:I work in log too, if I do the math, a real offset is closet to a colour temperature shift than the WB control.


Such strange behavior of Temp/Tint controls added in last versions of DaVinci really surprised me!
In other color critical pro apps such as RED-Cine-X, Adobe Lightroom/Bridge/SpeedGrade (even in R3d debayer settings inside DaVinci) Color Temp / White Balance controls works more close to "real physical world" and behavior of offset control.
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waltervolpatto

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Re: Function request: Avid Artist Color knobs Temp/Tint/MD..

PostTue Oct 11, 2016 9:45 pm

SerafimSalnikov wrote:
waltervolpatto wrote:I work in log too, if I do the math, a real offset is closet to a colour temperature shift than the WB control.


Such strange behavior of Temp/Tint controls added in last versions of DaVinci really surprised me!
In other color critical pro apps such as RED-Cine-X, Adobe Lightroom/Bridge/SpeedGrade (even in R3d debayer settings inside DaVinci) Color Temp / White Balance controls works more close to "real physical world" and behavior of offset control.



Agreed up to a certain point: there was a long thread about adding the WB/tint control in resolve about two years ago and my main objection was that it only work under certain conditions:

(take with a grain of salt, I'm not a color scientist...)

1) you must know your tonal range mapping distribution (in order to transform in linear light)
2) you must know the chromaticity of the starting white point of your image
3) you can then shift to a different white point where yo know the chromaticity as well.

the (simplest) math is:
1) undo the tonal range to go to pure photometric linear light
2) using the white point + the RGB triplet go to XYZ
3) translate to the the new white point from XYZ to RGB
4) rebuild the tonal range.

If you are gamma encoded, because you don't change the RGB triplet but just the white point, this *can be simplify as in a gain shift.

in most software it kind of work because: either you know the original white point from the RAW, or they assume that is 5000K (or 5600K) and go from there.

If you think in this way: if your original white point is 3200K, it is a very warm image, a +1000K will get you to 4200K that is still visually a very warm image.

If you are at 5600K, that is a pale yellow WP, a 6600K start to feel blue. So, the amount of change you get from the resolve control does not represent a color temperature change in absolute terms, but only a general direction.

If you have a gain in linear light (or gamma encoded) and you translate that to LOG, it should be an offset (addiction/subtraction): resolve does not have any way to know you're in log, so the actual math in the WB is not the right one (even if the result is somewhat acceptable withing some limits.

-w
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SerafimSalnikov

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Re: Function request: Avid Artist Color knobs Temp/Tint/MD..

PostTue Oct 11, 2016 10:57 pm

Thank you for explanation!
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SerafimSalnikov

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Re: Function request: Avid Artist Color knobs Temp/Tint/MD..

PostTue Oct 11, 2016 11:12 pm

I have one more interesting idea for Avid Artist MC color mapping:

While Temp/Tint parameters works not the same way as Offset, I suggest to add (please) the ability to switch Gain ball mapping to davinci Offset control while right SHIFT button on control panel is pressed!

Someone else supports such an idea?
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waltervolpatto

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Re: Function request: Avid Artist Color knobs Temp/Tint/MD..

PostWed Oct 12, 2016 12:35 am

SerafimSalnikov wrote:I have one more interesting idea for Avid Artist MC color mapping:

While Temp/Tint parameters works not the same way as Offset, I suggest to add (please) the ability to switch Gain ball mapping to davinci Offset control while right SHIFT button on control panel is pressed!

Someone else supports such an idea?


I do: is like to map the offset ti the 4th ball in the tangent element...
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Re: Function request: Avid Artist Color knobs Temp/Tint/MD..

PostFri Sep 30, 2022 7:36 pm

waltervolpatto wrote:
SerafimSalnikov wrote:I have one more interesting idea for Avid Artist MC color mapping:

While Temp/Tint parameters works not the same way as Offset, I suggest to add (please) the ability to switch Gain ball mapping to davinci Offset control while right SHIFT button on control panel is pressed!

Someone else supports such an idea?


I do: is like to map the offset ti the 4th ball in the tangent element...


Did it ever happend?

Would love to be able to control the offset with the Panel (ball)
Especially the fourth (Global) wheel in HDR
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waltervolpatto

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Re: Function request: Avid Artist Color knobs Temp/Tint/MD..

PostFri Sep 30, 2022 9:26 pm

Philipp Hönig wrote:
waltervolpatto wrote:
SerafimSalnikov wrote:I have one more interesting idea for Avid Artist MC color mapping:

While Temp/Tint parameters works not the same way as Offset, I suggest to add (please) the ability to switch Gain ball mapping to davinci Offset control while right SHIFT button on control panel is pressed!

Someone else supports such an idea?


I do: is like to map the offset ti the 4th ball in the tangent element...


Did it ever happend?

Would love to be able to control the offset with the Panel (ball)
Especially the fourth (Global) wheel in HDR


nope. never happened and it will never will (confirmed by BM).....
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Marc Wielage

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Re: Function request: Avid Artist Color knobs Temp/Tint/MD..

PostSat Oct 01, 2022 7:31 am

I seem to recall the Avid Artist Color panel was end-of-life'd, along with the Avid Artist Transport controllers.
marc wielage, csi • VP/color & workflow • chroma | hollywood

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