Mistake Report For BMD Team - How To Not Become Adobe

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Lucas87

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Mistake Report For BMD Team - How To Not Become Adobe

PostSun Nov 20, 2022 10:58 pm

Good morning Peter and the Resolve team. Firstly congratulations! Out of the hundreds, my company also finally made the switch from Adobe to Resolve. So now that I’m back to complain (after 3 years, see my original post: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=91509), can we finally fix some of the most basic functions that will make us peasants that lack a control panel or multiple monitors not suffer? You, the development team keep adding new magical features that the marketing department surely congratulates you for, but you ignore for YEARS some of the most basic functions that would give us peasants a peace of mind.

1. Make it possible to disable the cinema viewer ‘’player controls overlay’’. Every dam time you go to Cinema Viewer, you have to raise your hand off the mouse before pressing spacebar to Play, because a single pixel move with the mouse will trigger the player controls overlay to pop up. It takes 5 seconds to disappear again. Could you fix this or is the solution ''just keep your mouse hand perfectly still''? Sometimes people edit with one screen. Even the Resolve pros like Marc Wielage will some day open Resolve on a laptop, and would benefit from this fix. Just add in settings a checkbox: ‘’Disable player controls overlay in Cinema Viewer’’.

2. Edit Page - Retime Curve: Make a setting that enables choosing Retime Speed as default! It currently takes 4 clicks before any re-timing can occur. Why make majority of users waste valuable time changing it every single time from Retime Frame?

3. Make Snapping on the timeline work without the Playhead snapping!
Example: Right click on the Snapping icon (checkboxes):
- Disable Playhead Snapping
- Fade Handles Snap To Playhead
- Low Sensitivity Mode (Currently when moving a clip towards another clip it snaps way too early for percision moves, Premiere Pro snapping is at least two times less sensitive).


4. Fix the dam undo. In posts after posts of peasants complaining about this for years, someone in your team keeps jumping in to comment about how the undo works exactly PERFECT because it was designed to work for those who have the shiny balls of a control panel in front of them. Over 90% of your users don't use a control panel! Please make a settings checkbox for both options. ''classic undo'' and ''simple undo''.

Quote.png
Quote.png (116.72 KiB) Viewed 2579 times

Screenshot is from this discussion: https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=145896

Gentlemen, the issue of undo isn’t only in the color wheels. The issue persists on curves, noise reduction values, blur, etc. on and on… Undo doesn’t even work on Camera Raw controls AT ALL! You can’t change color temperature, exposure, saturation, etc. in Raw controls and undo it to the previous value.

I repeat. There is no undo in the Camera Raw tab. For the past 10 years. How can you keep pretending that the undo feature works well?

Also, undo does not work at all during playback on Color page. So no professional colorist wants to see before and after, undo/redo while playing the timeline? Yet again, undo works fine during playback on Fairlight and Edit pages.

My original video from three years ago showing the buggy undo to those who don’t know:


Gentlemen, we peasants you started marketing your software to A: can’t afford the panels, or B: Don’t want a panel in front of us because we are mainly editors or something else, not professional colorists.

Four wishes! Four from the peasants that work in your kingdom day and night. On this forum literally thousands of people have viewed the posts where these problems are described.

So next time the Marketing Balrogs come to you with their whips, find your courage and tell them to go back to the shadow, as for the next weeks you shall be focusing on the design instead of the magic.

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Last edited by Lucas87 on Mon Nov 21, 2022 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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waltervolpatto

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Re: Mistake Report For BMD Team - How To Not Become Adobe

PostMon Nov 21, 2022 1:33 am

"the Marketing Balrogs"


Brilliant!
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Re: Mistake Report For BMD Team - How To Not Become Adobe

PostMon Nov 21, 2022 2:51 am

Gotta add my vote to points 2 and 3. Both of those have been a major annoyance since the second time I had to fight with them.
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Re: Mistake Report For BMD Team - How To Not Become Adobe

PostMon Nov 21, 2022 12:19 pm

AnthonyReno wrote:Gotta add my vote to points 2 and 3. Both of those have been a major annoyance since the second time I had to fight with them.


To me points 1 and 4 are the bigger problems, but to each their own! :)
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Re: Mistake Report For BMD Team - How To Not Become Adobe

PostMon Nov 21, 2022 3:51 pm

There is a separate forum for Feature Requests.

viewforum.php?f=33

Best practice is to search first, to see if someone already asked. If not, post one idea per thread with a very brief description of the idea in the thread's title.
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Lucas87

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Re: Mistake Report For BMD Team - How To Not Become Adobe

PostMon Nov 21, 2022 4:53 pm

Jim Simon wrote:There is a separate forum for Feature Requests.

viewforum.php?f=33

Best practice is to search first, to see if someone already asked. If not, post one idea per thread with a very brief description of the idea in the thread's title.


Thanks for the info, I'm sure forum admins will move this post there if deemed necessary.
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Re: Mistake Report For BMD Team - How To Not Become Adobe

PostTue Nov 22, 2022 3:45 pm

waltervolpatto wrote:
"the Marketing Balrogs"


Brilliant!


Thanks Walter but what about the problems I described, see any of them as valid? You graded The Last Jedi on Resolve if I understood correctly. You never had Resolve's undo bug out (not work) while grading the movie?
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Re: Mistake Report For BMD Team - How To Not Become Adobe

PostTue Nov 22, 2022 7:45 pm

You forgot how many years we've been waiting for a revamp of keyframe editing on the editor timeline!

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=77981

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=169017

We're forced to work in a tiny window with no way to scale the viewport. As an example, X position keyframes have a vertical scale that covers between -1080 to +1080 on a 1080p timeline. Zero being the middle vertically. Moving a keyframe vertically a quarter of a millimetre in the curve editor moves the clip a massive amount. Don't get me started on trying to edit the easing of those keyframes in the same ridiculously tiny UI.
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Re: Mistake Report For BMD Team - How To Not Become Adobe

PostTue Nov 22, 2022 8:29 pm

well there are more important things, like, you know, the ipad version. :ugeek:

jokes(i hope) aside, with the 18.1 version BMD actually fixed some similar long-overdue annoyances, i hope they keep that up with the next releases!
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Re: Mistake Report For BMD Team - How To Not Become Adobe

PostTue Nov 22, 2022 8:41 pm

Hey, who needs a functioning undo when we have a boring detector? That new feature is the sole reason I can now legitimately call myself a professional editor. NO professional editor would ever need to undo, just like no professional cinematographer would ever have a bad take that he might have to delete from his cinema camera while on set. But when I bust out that boring detector, my clients are always "Ooh" and "Aah" and "This is so not boring!"

Don't even get me started about the cinematic vertical reframing because OMG I could go on and on.
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Re: Mistake Report For BMD Team - How To Not Become Adobe

PostWed Nov 23, 2022 12:03 am

So nice Lucas, hopefully BMD Team will make this amazing software better and better by listening to their customer and of course DR is DR, not Adobe. DR should has a its own unique thing and should not imitate Adobe :idea:
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Re: Mistake Report For BMD Team - How To Not Become Adobe

PostWed Nov 23, 2022 8:36 am

Lucas87 wrote:Gentlemen, the issue of undo isn’t only in the color wheels. The issue persists on curves, noise reduction values, blur, etc. on and on… Undo doesn’t even work on Camera Raw controls AT ALL! You can’t change color temperature, exposure, saturation, etc. in Raw controls and undo it to the previous value. I repeat. There is no undo in the Camera Raw tab. For the past 10 years. How can you keep pretending that the undo feature works well?

Cheap workaround for the Raw panel: if you're experimenting and decide you might want to revert back to where you were, before making any more changes, create a new version. THEN make the change. You can then compare Version 1 vs. Version 2, and it will reflect different Raw settings.

I don't know the thinking behind not storing those in the Undo stack, but this is what I use to make radical changes and do experiments before committing to them for complex jobs.
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Re: Mistake Report For BMD Team - How To Not Become Adobe

PostWed Nov 23, 2022 1:54 pm

Marc Wielage wrote:
Lucas87 wrote:Gentlemen, the issue of undo isn’t only in the color wheels. The issue persists on curves, noise reduction values, blur, etc. on and on… Undo doesn’t even work on Camera Raw controls AT ALL! You can’t change color temperature, exposure, saturation, etc. in Raw controls and undo it to the previous value. I repeat. There is no undo in the Camera Raw tab. For the past 10 years. How can you keep pretending that the undo feature works well?

Cheap workaround for the Raw panel: if you're experimenting and decide you might want to revert back to where you were, before making any more changes, create a new version. THEN make the change. You can then compare Version 1 vs. Version 2, and it will reflect different Raw settings.

I don't know the thinking behind not storing those in the Undo stack, but this is what I use to make radical changes and do experiments before committing to them for complex jobs.

Exactly Mark! That is what I've had to do. Painfully slow workaround. I grab a still and then I can change one setting in the Camera Raw tab and undo to that previously taken still.

Except if you are checking out how a shot looks between Color Science V1 and V4, then it doesn't revert back to V1. But yeah, there aren't many of us still shooting with the oldest BMD cameras. :P


Marc Wielage wrote:I don't know the thinking behind not storing those in the Undo stack, but this is what I use to make radical changes and do experiments before committing to them for complex jobs.

There is no thinking. These kinds of things are ignored because they are not marketable features. BMD is approaching this particular issue just like Adobe, when they ignore essential ''basic functionality'' problems for decades.
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Re: Mistake Report For BMD Team - How To Not Become Adobe

PostWed Nov 23, 2022 2:06 pm

Lucas87 wrote:
waltervolpatto wrote:
"the Marketing Balrogs"


Brilliant!


Thanks Walter but what about the problems I described, see any of them as valid? You graded The Last Jedi on Resolve if I understood correctly. You never had Resolve's undo bug out (not work) while grading the movie?


It does not bother me because I simply learn the rules of what I can undo and what I cannot.

I can either complain and get frustrated (and I do occasionally) or learn how to use the software at its best and move on.

However, I rarely do "undo" in color... usurai i have a set of stills from the previous good session and I use extra node in my nose structure when u color with clients, so I know when I did what
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Re: Mistake Report For BMD Team - How To Not Become Adobe

PostThu Nov 24, 2022 2:14 am

And then there are memories.
Maybe AI can help you. Or make you obsolete.

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Re: Mistake Report For BMD Team - How To Not Become Adobe

PostThu Nov 24, 2022 5:50 pm

Uli Plank wrote:And then there are memories.


What do you mean?
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Re: Mistake Report For BMD Team - How To Not Become Adobe

PostFri Nov 25, 2022 1:26 am

Lucas87 wrote:
Uli Plank wrote:And then there are memories.
What do you mean?

That means: take what you're doing and store it in a Memory Still location. Then make the change. If you don't like it, hit the Memory Stills button and go back to the way it was before.

Memory Stills are a huge part of how I work... but it's easier with a Macro keyboard (accessing the first 8 memories), or even better, the Advanced Panels, which give you access to (I think) 24 memories. I use this a feature a lot to save time.
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Re: Mistake Report For BMD Team - How To Not Become Adobe

PostFri Nov 25, 2022 2:09 am

Exactly.
Maybe AI can help you. Or make you obsolete.

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Re: Mistake Report For BMD Team - How To Not Become Adobe

PostSat Nov 26, 2022 2:52 pm

Marc Wielage wrote:
Lucas87 wrote:
Uli Plank wrote:And then there are memories.
What do you mean?

That means: take what you're doing and store it in a Memory Still location. Then make the change. If you don't like it, hit the Memory Stills button and go back to the way it was before.

Memory Stills are a huge part of how I work... but it's easier with a Macro keyboard (accessing the first 8 memories), or even better, the Advanced Panels, which give you access to (I think) 24 memories. I use this a feature a lot to save time.


Thank you to both for pointing this out, I will try this workflow. Hopefully Memory Stills memorizes Raw settings...
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Re: Mistake Report For BMD Team - How To Not Become Adobe

PostSun Nov 27, 2022 1:11 am

no matter how smart the workaround may be, the undo function can easily be better according to every other software in the world..
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Re: Mistake Report For BMD Team - How To Not Become Adobe

PostMon Nov 28, 2022 1:12 am

aglyons wrote:You forgot how many years we've been waiting for a revamp of keyframe editing on the editor timeline!

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=77981

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=169017

We're forced to work in a tiny window with no way to scale the viewport. As an example, X position keyframes have a vertical scale that covers between -1080 to +1080 on a 1080p timeline. Zero being the middle vertically. Moving a keyframe vertically a quarter of a millimetre in the curve editor moves the clip a massive amount. Don't get me started on trying to edit the easing of those keyframes in the same ridiculously tiny UI.


Yes, those were the reasons I left Resolve some years back... Why oh why can't they spend some time on the basics?

If I remember correctly, keyframing is slightly better on the color page when trying to get better easing. I'm assuming thats your current solution?
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Re: Mistake Report For BMD Team - How To Not Become Adobe

PostWed Nov 30, 2022 10:27 am

waltervolpatto wrote:It does not bother me because I simply learn the rules of what I can undo and what I cannot.

I can either complain and get frustrated (and I do occasionally) or learn how to use the software at its best and move on.

However, I rarely do "undo" in color... usurai i have a set of stills from the previous good session and I use extra node in my nose structure when u color with clients, so I know when I did what

Understood, thanks for explaining. I'll keep using Resolve, but also pushing for change...
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Re: Mistake Report For BMD Team - How To Not Become Adobe

PostWed Nov 30, 2022 3:25 pm

GalinMcMahon wrote:Hey, who needs a functioning undo when we have a boring detector? That new feature is the sole reason I can now legitimately call myself a professional editor. NO professional editor would ever need to undo, just like no professional cinematographer would ever have a bad take that he might have to delete from his cinema camera while on set. But when I bust out that boring detector, my clients are always "Ooh" and "Aah" and "This is so not boring!"

Don't even get me started about the cinematic vertical reframing because OMG I could go on and on.


Agreed. By now, I'm sure Peter and other members of the BMD team have read my post and all we can hope is that their egos aren't bruised by a bit ''harsh'' and blunt criticizm, and that they see the need to have some more attention spent on usability and customization for Resolve, rather than more magical features.
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Lucas87

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Re: Mistake Report For BMD Team - How To Not Become Adobe

PostSun May 07, 2023 5:07 am

18.5 had this fixed > ''Edit Page - Retime Curve: Make a setting that enables choosing Retime Speed as default!''

How about the rest now... and let us have timeline track height presets. Something EVERY other pro editor has already.
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Re: Mistake Report For BMD Team - How To Not Become Adobe

PostSun May 07, 2023 11:29 pm

Apologies if I missed something in my light skimming of this thread, but just wanted to add that Resolve 18.5b1 solved the issue of not being able to undo Raw settings.

It is the ONE feature that made me NOT wait for a stable release and update to the Beta immediately... when I read carefully the list of updates and I saw "undo in Raw Panels"... I was sold.

The only quark I've noticed, is that for the undo to work, you have to be in the "Clip" node graph (doesn't work when you are in pre or post clips when you are using group grades).

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Re: Mistake Report For BMD Team - How To Not Become Adobe

PostSat Aug 26, 2023 12:03 pm

bryantocara wrote:Apologies if I missed something in my light skimming of this thread, but just wanted to add that Resolve 18.5b1 solved the issue of not being able to undo Raw settings.

It is the ONE feature that made me NOT wait for a stable release and update to the Beta immediately... when I read carefully the list of updates and I saw "undo in Raw Panels"... I was sold.

The only quark I've noticed, is that for the undo to work, you have to be in the "Clip" node graph (doesn't work when you are in pre or post clips when you are using group grades).

Sent from my motorola razr using Tapatalk


You are correct, they did fix it. All we can say is great job BMD.

Now how about the rest of the features? :P

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