Import RAW codecs

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cOs Plaza Studios

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Import RAW codecs

PostWed Dec 07, 2022 1:47 pm

Hello,
our company was a long time user of Apple Final Cut Pro shooting with Canon and Sony cameras.
Last year we decided to go further and invested in a RED Komodo 6K Digital Cinema Camera.
Then we naturally move to Davinci Resolve to get the fully R3D RAW codec compatibility and the best image quality especially in image calibration.
We recently upgraded our photo shooting config to get more than full frame and bough a Fujifilm GFX 100S Digital Medium Format camera that shall be used as a second Digital Movie Camera recorded by an Atomos Ninja V in Prores RAW.

I was so disappointed to find that Davinci Resolve 18.1.1 DOES NOT SUPPORT APPLE PRORES RAW!!! :o

Isn't it the major movie codec adopted by the most camera brands and the professional film industry?

Then it complicates all the workflow to import R3D RAW shots in Resolve and need to convert Prores RAW to Adobe Cinema DNG with RAW Convertor (for Mac OS only) before to be able to import in Resolve.

So much wasted time, energy and consequently image quality.

I know that relationship between Apple, Atomos and Blackmagic Designs must be complicated and each brand has its own proprietary codec but hundred thousands including me have the same query.

Please add Davinci Resolve Prores RAW support to direct import and edit RAW files with all the workflow and image quality advantages :D

As Adobe Premiere Pro and AVID Media Composer do have the two of both world.

We do not plan to buy a Blackmagic video assist and use BRAW codec.
If some people have other solutions?

Our Graphic workstation config.
Davinci resolve 18.1.1 build 7
Mac OS Monterey 12.6.1
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External 4TB nvme/Thunderbolt 3 SSD for project and 1TB internal Apple SSD for cash.

Thanks.

Olivier Henri CHRETIEN
cOs Plaza Studios
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ZRGARDNE

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Re: Import RAW codecs

PostThu Dec 08, 2022 3:15 am

Been discussed multiple times.

Apparently less than great cooperation between Apple and BM on having competing raw standards.

I hold out zero hope of BM add PR Raw.

Atomos doing Braw is probably also a stretch as it competes with the View Assist.


Avid releasing a DNxRaw seems like the ideal solution. Everyone seems happy to work with them. But never heard even the slightest of rumor on that. :(
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Uli Plank

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Re: Import RAW codecs

PostThu Dec 08, 2022 3:55 am

Well, ProRes is widely seen as a standard and fully supported by DR. Even on PC for reading.
ProRes RAW is not so much seen as a standard, but the lack of support is disappointing nevertheless. Neither is Apple supporting BRAW, so it seems to be a mutual issue.
You should still have Compressor around, so just convert.

This might be helpful too (sorry, in German, use DeepL for translation):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ip58u11xundbl ... s.pdf?dl=0
Don’t approach DR with your preconceptions from another NLE.
Many features are better, some worse, most are different.


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Jim Simon

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Re: Import RAW codecs

PostThu Dec 08, 2022 4:30 pm

cOs Plaza Studios wrote:Isn't it the major movie codec adopted by the most camera brands
Actually, there's only one camera that can record ProRes RAW - the Zenmuse X7.

All other cameras require an external recorder, so maybe the Video Assist recording BRAW can work here?
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mickspixels

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Re: Import RAW codecs

PostThu Dec 08, 2022 7:21 pm

Jim Simon wrote:
cOs Plaza Studios wrote:Isn't it the major movie codec adopted by the most camera brands
Actually, there's only one camera that can record ProRes RAW - the Zenmuse X7.

All other cameras require an external recorder, so maybe the Video Assist recording BRAW can work here?


Actually that is not correct. The Nikon Z9 can record ProRes Raw internally as well as Nikon's own Nikon RAW. The Z9 was released in late 2021 and the ability to record internal raw was introduced by a firmware update in April 2022.
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roger.magnusson

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Re: Import RAW codecs

PostThu Dec 08, 2022 9:27 pm

mickspixels wrote:The Nikon Z9 can record ProRes Raw internally as well as Nikon's own Nikon RAW.

And the lawsuit initiated by Red because of this camera will go to trial in the beginning of 2024.
https://ymcinema.com/2022/12/08/red-vs-nikon-jury-trial-is-set-for-january-2024/
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mickspixels

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Re: Import RAW codecs

PostThu Dec 08, 2022 9:46 pm

Amazing - a trial by jury. It's hard to imagine how a jury would be able to reach a verdict on something so complex and technical. And what the outcome would be if they ruled against Nikon.
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ZRGARDNE

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Re: Import RAW codecs

PostFri Dec 09, 2022 12:22 am

mickspixels wrote: And what the outcome would be if they ruled against Nikon.


Status Quo. Anyone using compressed Raw in a camera needs to write a check to Red.

I believe Nikon's angle is that Red didn't do all the copyright hurdles in the correct order. That Red released the product before applying for the patent.

If that is true, I am surprised the past lawsuits didn't press that argument.
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Uli Plank

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Re: Import RAW codecs

PostFri Dec 09, 2022 1:05 am

And if Nikon looses they have to cough up the dough or kill the recording with the next firmware, just like BM had to do with DNG.
Don’t approach DR with your preconceptions from another NLE.
Many features are better, some worse, most are different.


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Nick2021

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Re: Import RAW codecs

PostFri Dec 09, 2022 5:29 am

mickspixels wrote:Amazing - a trial by jury. It's hard to imagine how a jury would be able to reach a verdict on something so complex and technical. And what the outcome would be if they ruled against Nikon.



If it starts in 2024 by the time any appeals are over it might be past the life of the patent. 2027 I think.

I think Nikon has already implied they don't see any damage to Red. If they lose I'd assume they'd push that line of reasoning. No harm no foul.

I don't think many are using ProRes raw in the Z9. You'll be hard pressed to find one positive review of ProRes. It's lower quality than NRaw 8k.
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Mark Foster

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Re: Import RAW codecs

PostFri Dec 09, 2022 11:59 am

Uli Plank wrote:And if Nikon looses they have to cough up the dough or kill the recording with the next firmware, just like BM had to do with DNG.


or DJI with proresRAW in the ronin 4D



Nick2021 wrote:
mickspixels wrote:Amazing - a trial by jury. It's hard to imagine how a jury would be able to reach a verdict on something so complex and technical. And what the outcome would be if they ruled against Nikon.



If it starts in 2024 by the time any appeals are over it might be past the life of the patent. 2027 I think.

I think Nikon has already implied they don't see any damage to Red. If they lose I'd assume they'd push that line of reasoning. No harm no foul.

I don't think many are using ProRes raw in the Z9. You'll be hard pressed to find one positive review of ProRes. It's lower quality than NRaw 8k.


only that red has recently extended (supplemented) its patent.
and that's why i don't see nikon's chances as good.

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Nick2021

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Re: Import RAW codecs

PostFri Dec 09, 2022 2:08 pm

Some how I doubt Nikon is surprised that Red is suing.

IIRC Red's new patent is for smartphones or something.
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John Spirou

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Re: Import RAW codecs

PostFri Dec 09, 2022 2:16 pm

Why don’t they use braw?

Sony, Nikon, Fuji etc….


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Uli Plank

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Re: Import RAW codecs

PostFri Dec 09, 2022 3:38 pm

Because BM owns it.
Don’t approach DR with your preconceptions from another NLE.
Many features are better, some worse, most are different.


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John Spirou

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Re: Import RAW codecs

PostFri Dec 09, 2022 3:41 pm

But bm said that’s everyone can use it.


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DavidVogt

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Re: Import RAW codecs

PostFri Dec 09, 2022 11:32 pm

The RAW battle has been going on for years. Nobody has been able to find a standard that everybody thinks will do the job. Sony, Nikon, BM all think theirs is best, and to use someone else’s compromises their equipment’s performance. Adobe tried first with their DNG standard which had some success, but the plethora of sensor designs doesn’t seem to optimize for it.
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Uli Plank

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Re: Import RAW codecs

PostSat Dec 10, 2022 2:15 am

John Spirou wrote:But bm said that’s everyone can use it.

Everyone can use the SDK to decode it, yes.
Don’t approach DR with your preconceptions from another NLE.
Many features are better, some worse, most are different.


Resolve Studio 18.1.2, MacOS 12.6.2
MacBook M1 Pro, 16 GPU cores, 32 GB RAM
and
iMac 2017, Radeon 580, 32 GB RAM
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Hendrik Proosa

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Re: Import RAW codecs

PostSat Dec 10, 2022 11:10 am

BMD hasn’t said anything about anyone having free reign to implement braw encoding anywhere.

Nick2021 wrote:I don't think many are using ProRes raw in the Z9. You'll be hard pressed to find one positive review of ProRes. It's lower quality than NRaw 8k.

Sensor dictates the quality of raw data. Unlike braw, prores raw actually stores bayer pattern data. What the quality of that data is depends on the sensor. How the prores raw decoder is implemented in some software X is also mostly dependent on those implementing it, not prores raw as a format. Right now most implementations don’t expose all prraw decoder functionalities.
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