Best way to copy noise reduction node to multiple clips

Hi. I know we're supposed to do noise reduction first. Problem is I cannot gauge the quality of (and whether to even keep) a clip until it is transformed from log and graded mostly.

So, I've been partly grading and then sticking 2 nodes (blur and noise reduction) in the first and second positions of the tree, I believe following the operations order and preventing rerendering for subsequent tweaking.

So now that I'm messing with noise reduction, I find the optimal setting takes 5 minutes to render a single 4k clip.

I like the result so much, I want all clips to have the same 2 nodes. Problem is there are 22 clips. So it looks like I have to come back 22 times.

Append node sticks the node at the end. I can't do that because moving nodes to the beginning of the tree forces it to rerender. Anything better than copy/paste/wait 5 minutes/copy/paste...?

Okay I think I've got it. I was afraid to just paste them rapid-fire for fear the machine would catch fire.

DR seems to manage this gargantuan series of tasks well. The fans are all whirring at full tilt

Hi. I know we're supposed to do noise reduction first. Problem is I cannot gauge the quality of (and whether to even keep) a clip until it is transformed from log and graded mostly.

According to who? Not me. To me, the process of adding contrast to an image -- like merely decoding from Log to Rec709 -- immediately increases apparent noise. If you stomp on the image early (like in Log), there's a good chance you'll lose a lot of detail that you can't get back later on.

To me, the right thing to do is to put any NR towards the end of the Node Tree, or at least what I do: after the main contrast/color corrections, but before the keys, secondaries, and windows, basically in the middle of the node tree. To do it as the first node causes much more harm than good.

You can copy the NR settings by setting up an empty node in all the clips, then copying and pasting the NR settings to those other clips. If you use a Fixed Node Structure, where every shot has the exact same number of nodes, you could designate one node as "The NR Node," and then copy that across the entire project. I think you do need to make subtle adjustments shot to shot: there may be shots that need very little (or no) NR, and there may be underexposed shots that need lots of NR. You have to subjectively evaluate each shot and make a decision how far to go in terms of NR, and note that it might change the color grade a little bit.

Wow I know I've still got a lot to learn . I followed the DR "Order of Operations" flow chart. I have to say, noise looks pretty good by this approach. I suppose it might look even better if I rearrange.

After this enormous node render I'll try rearranging using versions to test your recommended approach.

My order is Blur-Noise-LUT... I hear that LUT should be at the end, in the middle and the beginning. To me, logically and based on my footage looks best up front.

Part of this might be the nature of my footage. It's wildlife and so the scenes are quite busy with lots of subject and background movement.

Thanks for your suggestion!

Two things about the order of operations

the graphic you are referencing from the manual shows the order of operations within one node. that doesn't mean you have to stick to that in a node tree. you can rearrange stuff as you want, it just shows how it works if you are only using one node

second, applying NR first or last both has its benefits.
at the end:
- you only take care of the noise that makes it through the grade -> not so heavy settings, preserve more details
- easier to see how much NR is needed since the image has a higher contrast

at the start:
- takes care of it right away
- keys and tracking might work better
- better playback performance (when you cache the node)
- doesn't get wonky when using other effects like blurs, windows, etc, because those come afterwards
- tools like curves and keys won't push the noise to much

and btw if you want to copy the settings to all clips it's best advised to work with a fixed node tree or at least leave one node empty at the start as Marc suggested. Then use the ripple node function to paste it to all clips.

I'm also partial to adding NR last in the tree.

Often I will apply it as a Timeline node, if all the clips are sufficiently similar. Another approach might be a Shared Node, so you can make changes which will then apply to all clips with that Node.

I'm also partial to adding NR last in the tree. Often I will apply it as a Timeline node, if all the clips are sufficiently similar. Another approach might be a Shared Node, so you can make changes which will then apply to all clips with that Node.

One problem with doing NR as a Timeline node is that in extremely high-contrast situations, like a pitch-black room and somebody carrying a brightly-lit candle, when there's a cut, Transient noise-reduction can hang on to the bright image and cause "lag" in subsequent frames. SNR doesn't have this problem. The NR "knows" when there's a scene boundary in normal Clip-node correction, but it won't be aware of the cut in Timeline mode.

What is true is if you increase the Temporal NR Frames to a very high number -- like 4 or 5 -- it can "look ahead" and determine where there's a scene boundary. In general, it'll work, but I've had situations where still a small amount of lag of the frame boundary caused it to be rejected by QC. (This was also an enormous problem with the early video & film NR systems we had in the 1990s and 2000s, so this issue has been around.)

One workaround for this (other than doing shot-by-shot NR correction in a Clip grade) is to render out the project to a visually-lossless file, then use 3rd-party NR like Neat Video. That works for us in situations where we have lots of time for multiple renders, but it still requires at least four levels of NR: day interior, night interior, day exteriors, and night exteriors... and sometimes for extremely "pushed" scenes, we have to go in and do a custom adjustment. All of these are done by creating manual cuts on these scene changes and letting Neat do its things. We lean as much as we can to a "less is more" philosophy, and do less NR in an effort to avoid artifacts.

Yes I see that the flow chart says "within the nodes." It seems counterintuitive. Why bundle noise reduction with other effects in one node? The node would need a lengthy name. Then you can't tweak the other adjustments without a slow noise re-render.

It seems like the operations flow chart must apply to the node tree as well. With the noise node early in the tree and cached, I can do anything to the other nodes and re-rendering excludes the prior noise node. If the chart didn't also apply to the tree, then order wouldn't affect re-rendering, no?

NR first at the price of turning your images into mush (completly needless)

NR = last and as little as possiable

or just decide the show should look like crap and shoot on $15 lenses, save the hassle of turning the images into mush with NR later;-)

Yes I see that the flow chart says "within the nodes." It seems counterintuitive. Why bundle noise reduction with other effects in one node? The node would need a lengthy name. Then you can't tweak the other adjustments without a slow noise re-render.

It seems like the operations flow chart must apply to the node tree as well. With the noise node early in the tree and cached, I can do anything to the other nodes and re-rendering excludes the prior noise node. If the chart didn't also apply to the tree, then order wouldn't affect re-rendering, no?

Yes, NR later on will require resolve to rerender everytime you change something before that node. This is only important if you use caching anyway.

Also with certain effects like blurs and other spatial stuff NR can create artefacts if applied afterwards.

Removing noise early on definetely has more benefits in my opinion.