Blackmagic Forum

I am working with a big mix of framerates. 24/23.976/25/29.970/60 etc. As well as mixed media, animation and video.

I have noticed that the 25p video has a frame jump when dropped straight into the timeline. However editing atributes and changing framerate to 24p abviouclt slows down the clip marginally. And I want it to play back in original speed.

What is the best practice? Also considering I am working with 100s of varying files for a design showreel.

Well, try to switch the retime process to optical flow for final rendering and see if you like.
It depends on content (motion) and it's slow, but the best solution if you want to keep original speed.

I'd stick with interpreting 25 fps as 24 fps clip - no artifacts ever and only aliens can tell the difference...it's the most common practice when converting 24 fps film to 25 fps PAL video (if you're in a PAL country, you actually watch it like that all the time) - although it's the opposite process to yours, I don't think anyone ever complained about 1 fps difference either way...

Well, musicians are not aliens (at least not all of them), and they might be able to tell

If he were using only 24 <> 25 I'd recommend that too. But he is listing a whole bag of frame rates…

Uli Plank wrote:Well, musicians are not aliens (at least not all of them), and they might be able to tell

If he were using only 24 <> 25 I'd recommend that too. But he is listing a whole bag of frame rates…

Hopefully, musicians (most of them) are not trained in spotting visual deficiences, hope the final doesn't come accross one

The most of other framerates he's using are a can of worms

This is one hell of a challenge.

Assuming real time playback is required, mixing ATSC and PAL frame rates can be difficult to do well without hardware convertors.

I've also noticed similar issues when mixing 23.976 and 24, which are different frame rates.

If it's just not possible to do this correctly (all media with the same resolution and frame rate), then hardware conversion of oddball clips would be my first choice.

If hardware conversion isn't feasible, then changing the speed of oddball clips in Clip Attributes would be my second choice.

Hardware conversion?
Who needs this legacy equipment (except broadcast)? You have software version of Alchemist as well as Tachyon. Superior to any hardware and way easier to access and use. You can use them as paid online service- good for someone who has 1 or few files to convert. No need to spend 50K anymore.
If you smart you can also do it for free with open source tools.

Alchemist for 24 vs 23.976p will just do fps assumption (speed change)- not any conversion as it's pointless.

InterrobangMP wrote:I am working with a big mix of framerates. 24/23.976/25/29.970/60 etc. As well as mixed media, animation and video.

I have noticed that the 25p video has a frame jump when dropped straight into the timeline. However editing atributes and changing framerate to 24p abviouclt slows down the clip marginally. And I want it to play back in original speed.

What is the best practice? Also considering I am working with 100s of varying files for a design showreel.

23.976 and 24 = speed up to 25.
50+ good motion adaptive conversion. Resolve may do it as well.
29.97->25 is the biggest problem. Low fps so motion adaptive conversion may introduce artefacts. You need good converter for this- GV File (software version of Alchemist) or maybe better something based on Tachyon engine.
Depending on your budget you can use eg.
https://cloud.telestream.net/tachyon/

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:You have software version of Alchemist as well as Tachyon. Superior to any hardware and way easier to access and use.

Nice tip.

Uli Plank wrote:Well, try to switch the retime process to optical flow for final rendering and see if you like.
It depends on the content (motion) and it's slow, but the best solution if you want to keep original speed.

Thanks, can you explain to me where exactly you do this?

Mario Kalogjera wrote:I'd stick with interpreting 25 fps as 24 fps clip - no artifacts ever and only aliens can tell the difference...it's the most common practice when converting 24 fps film to 25 fps PAL video (if you're in a PAL country, you actually watch it like that all the time) - although it's the opposite process to yours, I don't think anyone ever complained about 1 fps difference either way...

Unfortunately, it's fast-paced mountain biking action, and slowing it down at all would not be a great result when the main thing we do is try to make things look fast!

Jim Simon wrote:This is one hell of a challenge.

Assuming real time playback is required, mixing ATSC and PAL frame rates can be difficult to do well without hardware convertors.

I've also noticed similar issues when mixing 23.976 and 24, which are different frame rates.

If it's just not possible to do this correctly (all media with the same resolution and frame rate), then hardware conversion of oddball clips would be my first choice.

If hardware conversion isn't feasible, then changing the speed of oddball clips in Clip Attributes would be my second choice.

Thanks for this. I've found myself in a different project now, and the main frame rates are 23.976, 24 and 25. Can you tell me please, what is involved in hardware conversion? How do I do this? I'm happy for you to point me to an artilce or instructional video for this.

Have a look at this: https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/teranexmini

and this:

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... i/workflow

and that:

https://documents.blackmagicdesign.com/ ... 7625210000

It's normal to treat such conversions (25>24 and vice versa I mean) frame for frame and then pitch the audio 4% either way. Mostly with 24fps feature films on terrestrial Pal TV, they don't even bother with that and we are used to hearing them in Europe slightly pitched up. 25p audio slowed down is more noticeable but maybe that's because I'm used to the other way. As for the other frame rates a variety of hardware and software methods are needed, as previously mentioned. Avid can default to blended frame interpolation, for example, for 25p on a 24p timeline, which is not acceptable for finishing and so it is normal to ingest 25p in a 25p project and bring it into the 24p project by opening bins from the former, where it will place frame for frame.

Andrew's idea from earlier in the thread might also be worth looking at.

https://www.telestream.net/telestream-cloud/tachyon.htm