Blackmagic Forum

I am getting my Nikon Z6 Camera back tomorrow and its been upgraded to allow me to record to an Atomos External Recorder in 12bit Apple ProRes Raw. I love DaVinci Resolve Studio 16 but I dont see an export option for Apple Prores Raw. What will be my limitations if I want to edit and color grade my Video Footage if I capture it with my Atomos Ninja V and Nikon Z6 Camera in 12 Bit Apple ProRes Raw format?

If I'm not mistaken, Resolve doesn't support it at all. You would have to transcode, which kinda defeats the purpose of shooting in it. For now, ProRes RAW mainly benefits FCPX users.

joe12south wrote:If I'm not mistaken, Resolve doesn't support it at all. You would have to transcode, which kinda defeats the purpose of shooting in it. For now, ProRes RAW mainly benefits FCPX users.

That is unfortunate. I hope they will support it as it's growing quickly

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Well, both Apple and Atomos are competitors, so don't hold your breath.

Uli Plank wrote:Well, both Apple and Atomos are competitors, so don't hold your breath.

Yes but I believe that Adobe Premiere added it on December 12th so when the camera arrives today I will test it and let everyone know.

They may be competitor's however apple prores raw is becoming a standard and us an amazing codec so they would be wise to add the capability since they would lose customers back to adobe which would be ashamed since Resole is the best NLE.

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jbandes wrote:

Uli Plank wrote:Well, both Apple and Atomos are competitors, so don't hold your breath.

Yes but I believe that Adobe Premiere added it on December 12th so when the camera arrives today I will test it and let everyone know.

They may be competitor's however apple prores raw is becoming a standard and us an amazing codec so they would be wise to add the capability since they would lose customers back to adobe which would be ashamed since Resole is the best NLE.

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Adobe Support just said Yes

Yes, Premiere Pro will support Apple ProRes, ProRes HDR, you can refer to this link.

https://helpx.adobe.com/in/premiere-pro ... rmats.html

Hurray. Now it's up to Resolve to decide what it wants to do. I don't think they have much of a choice now that Adobe supports it.

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Uli Plank wrote:Well, both Apple and Atomos are competitors, so don't hold your breath.

In what way are they competitors? Maybe you meant BMD and Apple?

Michael_Andreas wrote:

Uli Plank wrote:Well, both Apple and Atomos are competitors, so don't hold your breath.

In what way are they competitors? Maybe you meant BMD and Apple?

Yea I think he meant BMD.

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Michael_Andreas wrote:

Uli Plank wrote:Well, both Apple and Atomos are competitors, so don't hold your breath.

In what way are they competitors? Maybe you meant BMD and Apple?

I am just glad we have a workable solution in Adobe premiere on a PC.

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jbandes wrote:apple prores raw is becoming a standard

I'm skeptical of that assertion.

For starters, Atomos recorders are the only way to record ProRes RAW (as far as I know). Additionally, you can't change things like White Balance and ISO in post, so you lose some of the primary benefits of shooting RAW here.

It's only real advantage seems to be comparable quality, but smaller file sizes, compared to ProRes 4444 XQ. But the same can be said for BRAW, which also offers post manipulation of WB and ISO.

To my thinking, that makes BRAW the more compelling option for camera makers and post houses. That's where I'd like to see the industry go.

Time will tell, I guess.

Yes, I was not clear enough, I meant Apple and Atomos being competitors to BM.
With Atomos they actually have a serious hate relationship.

Jim Simon wrote:

jbandes wrote:apple prores raw is becoming a standard

I'm skeptical of that assertion.

For starters, Atomos recorders are the only way to record ProRes RAW (as far as I know). Additionally, you can't change things like White Balance and ISO in post, so you lose some of the primary benefits of shooting RAW here.

It's only real advantage seems to be comparable quality, but smaller file sizes, compared to ProRes 4444 XQ. But the same can be said for BRAW, which also offers post manipulation of WB and ISO.

To my thinking, that makes BRAW the more compelling option for camera makers and post houses. That's where I'd like to see the industry go.

Time will tell, I guess.

So 6 companies are now supporting Prores Raw

https://www.fcp.co/final-cut-pro/news/2 ... prores-raw

I tried to open a sample file in Premiere but it did not work. Very disappointing. I received my Camera back from Nikon, I will record a few 12 bit Prores raw clips on Atomos and see if I can read them in Adobe Premiere. If not it is going to be ashamed. Why bother upgrading your Nikon Z6 camera unless you are on a Mac using Final Cut Pro, does not seem like its worth the trouble. Cant read the sample files.

This list is bit outdated I assume.

This is Apples official list.
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT200321#proresraw

I always hope that wise people will not accept a CODEC as a standard unless it is broadly accessible.
But I know, that's not going to happen, Apple is simply too appealing to some.

Cary Knoop wrote:I always hope that wise people will not accept a CODEC as a standard unless it is broadly accessible.
But I know, that's not going to happen, Apple is simply too appealing to some.

I am a bit annoyed. I purchased the Nikon Z6 and an Atomis Ninja V because of the promise of the amazing Apple Prores recoding capability over HDMI. I Then waited an entire year and now that it is finally out I learn that it does not work in Davinchi Resolve 16. Even worse they said it would work in Adobe Premiere and now testing it does not work and after a much closer look it appears that Prores is supported in Adobe Premiere. Of course I am sure that Prores and Prores RAW are not the same. I despise apple and have no desire to use MAC and Final Cut Pro. The entire subject is very confusssing and misleading. So now my camera is capable but I can't seem to use it so what was the point ?

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Well after lots of digging it looks like Edius Pro 9 supports prores raw on a PC. But yikes another $500 dollars all just to use the prores raw codec I am seriously wondering if this codec is worth all of these added costs. Upgrade to the Nikon z6 and buying a Ninja 5 and now additional software. Do you guys think it's worth it ?

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Can't the Ninja record ProRes HQ in 10 bit or maybe XQ in 12 bit?
It will work in Resolve and it comes very close to ProRes RAW.

Uli Plank wrote:Can't the Ninja record ProRes HQ in 10 bit or maybe XQ in 12 bit?
It will work in Resolve and it comes very close to ProRes RAW.

Yes thank you so much. I tested the Prores HQ and it does work in Resolve. I am still a bit disappointed because I bought the rig to wait for the (supposedly amazing Prores Raw). So I bought the Z6 and then waited almost a year for the firmware upgrade. Now the firmware is out for the Atomos Ninja V and the Z6 Camera. I sent my Camera to Nikon for the $200 service upgrade and received it yesterday. I hooked it all up and it does not in fact record in Prores Raw 12 bit but now on a PC I cant find an NLE that will let me play and edit it. OK Adobe Premiere says it will release and update (that would be nice). Now I see that Edius claims it can do it on a PC. I am downloading the trial and will test it today. (Another $500 now for software. So to edit in Prores Raw it is goning to cost a great deal of money that I have now spent. The question is was it worth it? Especially since I can just edit regular Prores in my beloved Resolve without all the extra $$$$

jbandes wrote:

Cary Knoop wrote:Of course I am sure that Prores and Prores RAW are not the same.

My guess is that ProRes RAW is nothing more than using a 4:4:4 B&W raw signal over ProRes and an added static debayer-info table wrapped into a lot of marketing.

Which is all what you actually need. Take proven encoding scheme and just add ability to understand and encode RAW. Exactly same as about every other RAW codec- Cineform, RED etc.
Only extra bit in RAW codecs (which is optional) is some built-in debayering (and richer metadata).
From my own testing standard ProRes encodes RAW very well, so ProRes RAW should be good, even without any special optimisations to handle RAW.
Nothing stops you to encode RAW with h264, h265 etc (well- except RED patent ).
Technically encoding RAW is plain simple. In the same time I have not seen anyone taking some special approach with a lot of research etc. around possible optimisation for RAW data.

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:Which is all what you actually need. Take proven encoding scheme and just add ability to understand and encode RAW. Exactly same as about every other RAW codec- Cineform, RED etc.
Only extra bit in RAW codecs (which is optional) is some built-in debayering (and richer metadata).
From my own testing standard ProRes encodes RAW very well, so ProRes RAW should be good, even without any special optimisations to handle RAW.
Nothing stops you to encode RAW with h264, h265 etc (well- except RED patent ).
Technically encoding RAW is plain simple. In the same time I have not seen anyone taking some special approach with a lot of research etc. around possible optimisation for RAW data.

This is very educational thank you so much. I successfully used Edius 9 Pro and can open and edit the Prores Raw files on my PC. I exported them as Prores Raw 4.4.4.4 files and opened them in Resolve 16 and had no problem. I then played around with DNxHD files and could edit them also in Resolve with no problems. On a stand alone PC using VLC player the DNxHD files are large and stutter.

I think as my default workflow I am going to record in 10 Bit ProRes HQ out of the Atomos and then Apply the Nikon Z6 Lut and then color grade in Resolve 16 and then I can export in any format I need depending on the final need. Thanks everyone for the Education.

Jim Simon wrote:Additionally, you can't change things like White Balance and ISO in post, so you lose some of the primary benefits of shooting RAW here.

? You most certainly can. FCPX just doesn't show a separate control to do these things. You just use the colour controls, as you would for any other clip. But they do alter the image before debayering if you've got a Prores Raw clip. I think it's a very clean, simple way of working. No need for separate sliders if the software knows the difference between raw or regular prores.

Really hoping Resolve adds ProRes Raw support soon: https://support.apple.com/kb/DL2033?locale=en_US

So when would BMD support Prores RAW? Its been 2 years since it was released yet BMD continues to ignore it.

I know this is an old thread, but...
BM sells cameras and other post production equipment.
Apple does not.
BM gives away for free Davinci Resolve that is almost as good as the studio version
Apple, I assume, charges for Final Cut.

So they only compete in NLE software. It seems it would be to BM's advantage to include ProRes RAW in Davinci Resolve.

Don't hit me, I'm an old man

Just to add to the confusion, a program called Assimilate Scratch handles Pro Res RAW and also allows for changing ISO and WB (although it's called Kelvin).

Scratch had this option for months now (and ProResRAW support for way longer).
Nothing new or confusing.