Titan RTX or Radeon VII 7nm ?

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David Cherniack

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Titan RTX or Radeon VII 7nm ?

PostFri Dec 20, 2019 4:00 pm

I have a large 4k project and presently have 2 1080ti's. I'm doing a fair amount of work in the Fusion page and am getting GPU memory full errors frequently enough that I'm considering selling and replacing them.

Right now the above mention Radeon 7 with 16GB is selling for almost 2k CAD while the Titan RTX with 24GB is 3250 CAD. I can't afford to buy 2 of whichever so I'd still need a 2nd card for my UI but I doubt that it needs to be as heavy duty as a 1080ti.

Any suggestions about this or an alternative way to go? The GPU Memory Full error results in a crash and a restart of Resolve. A pain.
David
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George Milnes II

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Re: Titan RTX or Radeon VII 7nm ?

PostFri Dec 20, 2019 4:13 pm

Keep in mind your UI card should be the same make...BM states not to mix makes (not models, to be clear). So, Nvidia/Nvidia or AMD/AMD...on a side note, I’m saving for the Radeon VII ;)


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Carsten Sellberg

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Re: Titan RTX or Radeon VII 7nm ?

PostFri Dec 20, 2019 4:31 pm

Hi.

I am on my way out of the door. And don't have time to look into how a Radeon 7 with 16GB will compare to you 2x 1080ti's.
Hope other forum members can help.

But the Radeon 7 is still on sale at Newegg for the next 3-4 days.
What I did, was to google Newegg.com and change the location to Canada.
Search for the Radion 7 and got this link:

https://www.newegg.ca/xfx-radeon-vii-rx ... -_-Product

In stock. Ships from Canada.

Sold and Shipped by Newegg'

And the price are $659.99
+$9.99 Shipping.

I will suggest you and others use this price, when you look into your next GPU.

Regards Carsten.
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Jim Simon

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Re: Titan RTX or Radeon VII 7nm ?

PostFri Dec 20, 2019 4:34 pm

David Cherniack wrote:I'd still need a 2nd card for my UI


Not really. Either card will do for that purpose. And adding a second card may even limit performance.
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David Cherniack

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Re: Titan RTX or Radeon VII 7nm ?

PostFri Dec 20, 2019 5:03 pm

Carsten Sellberg wrote:Hi.

But the Radeon 7 is still on sale at Newegg for the next 3-4 days.
What I did, was to google Newegg.com and change the location to Canada.
Search for the Radion 7 and got this link:

https://www.newegg.ca/xfx-radeon-vii-rx ... -_-Product

In stock. Ships from Canada.

Sold and Shipped by Newegg'

And the price are $659.99
+$9.99 Shipping.

I will suggest you and others use this price, when you look into your next GPU.

Regards Carsten.


Hi Carsten,

The price is right, probably because it's a discontinued card and is based on the 14nm architecture, I believe. Seems to be issues with quality control according to the review. And I wonder if 16GB is enough...
David
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Dermot Shane

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Re: Titan RTX or Radeon VII 7nm ?

PostFri Dec 20, 2019 6:38 pm

Titan RTX or Radeon VII ?

do you rely effects that need tensor cores to run effecently (object replacement / speedwarp/ deflicker)?
or OFX that do not run on CL (BCC, Paul Dore)?

if either answer is yes, then nVidia is the only choice

i'd try cacheing for now, wait for the rumored 2080Tisuper 16g to show up, or the 3000 series nVidia cards
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kinvermark

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Re: Titan RTX or Radeon VII 7nm ?

PostFri Dec 20, 2019 6:55 pm

Only problem is that here in Canada you will pay 2.5 x the price of that Radeon VII Newegg deal to get a 2080ti, never mind a super version. The NVIDIA cards never seem to go on sale for much and the second hand market is equally over-priced.

Hence the temptation :)
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Carsten Sellberg

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Re: Titan RTX or Radeon VII 7nm ?

PostFri Dec 20, 2019 8:26 pm

David Cherniack wrote: Hi Carsten,

The price is right, probably because it's a discontinued card and is based on the 14nm architecture, I believe. Seems to be issues with quality control according to the review. And I wonder if 16GB is enough...


Hi.

The Titan RTX is a 12nm Graphics Card and the Radion VII was the first consumer Graphics Card produced on the 7nm process node. Here is a link to its website:

https://www.xfxforce.com/gpus/amd-radeo ... triple-fan

As you can see, do it have the same type number RX-VEGMA3FD6 as on the Newegg page. But all Radion VII card are what I will call AMD reference designs, and are all equal expect for the printed Brand.

All Radion VII have HBCC that can be turned on or off. QUOTE: 'The “Vega” architecture has a feature meant to deal with situations like this one: the High Bandwidth Cache Controller (HBCC). The HBCC reserves a portion of system memory for use by the GPU, effectively extending the VRAM capacity. The HBCC then manages the migration of data between local VRAM and system memory, making sure the right bits are in VRAM as needed.'

From: https://community.amd.com/community/gam ... -workloads

The first Radion VII was delivered on February 7th 2019, so I agree that it soon will be a discontinued card and new models will be arriving.

But else do I remember several users are undervolting it to lower the power consumption and fan noise. But if you want to keep the fan noise very low, can you also buy a watercooling kit for it.

I have NOT seen Black Magic Design recommend dual or triple GPU for some time. Instead have I seen recommendation for a single TOP GPU.
Dual GPU don't make Resolve to run Generally faster. What Dual GPU does is, that it makes a few function as TNR Noice Reduction to run up to 30% faster.


Here is a copy and paste of what I wrote in an another thread:

'1. Nearly a months ago did se I some rumors of a NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti SUPER Graphics card. Here is a link:

https://www.notebookcheck.net/An-NVIDIA ... 377.0.html

2. I don't know your time schedule for a new Graphics Card. But 2020 will be the year for new Graphics Cards. We expect the first 7nm Next Generation Amperen nVidea Graphics card, the High End AMD Navi Graphics card and the first Intel discrete Graphics Cards. Competition will be good for us consumers. Here is a link to one of them:

https://www.techpowerup.com/259842/nvid ... in-1h-2020

3. Both AMD and Intel are working of a new type of Graphics Card, where several GPU dies are interconnected with fast buses.

Back in August at Hot Chips Keynote Dr. Lisa Su, CEO of AMD told at 05:25PM EDT - 'These technologies might be designed for the high end HPC systems, these technologies filter down to commercial systems and next gen CPU/GPU':

From this link: https://www.anandtech.com/show/14762/ho ... g-145pm-pt

But she did NOT tell when. Will it be next gen CPU/GPU or may be NEXT NEXT gen CPU/GPU.

And back in November did Intel's Graphic Guru Raja Koduri hold a keynote where he presented their highly scalable Xe Graphics "Ponte Vecchio" Architecture. Which will spread the graphics workload over multiple chips, with a multi die architecture within each discreet GPU.

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=102847

I expect it to arrive in 2021.

Personally do I see this new Interconnected GPU Dies to be the future of Resolve. The first of them is the Radeon Pro Vega II DUO GPUs in the new Mac Pro.

But with all this happening in the Graphics Card area, do I wonder if it will be a good idea to, for the moment to buy one of the OLD Titans RTX?

May be it will be a better idea to buy what you need today, and then expect to upgrade in a year or two.'

Regards Carsten.
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Ellory Yu

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Re: Titan RTX or Radeon VII 7nm ?

PostFri Dec 20, 2019 8:43 pm

From what I have research the Radeon VII 16Gb 7nm is pretty decent and reasonably priced at $595. It's only about a .6% less in performance from the Titan RTX which cost double. I have 2 AMD R9 390X 8Gb that I will be replacing with 1 Radeon VII. I have 2 monitors and I don't think it will have any issues being connected to a single GPU card.

I was thinking of keeping one of the R9 390X just as a display card. I'm not sure if that will affect the overall performance of the Radeon VII. Something I will probably have to test for. Both cards are AMD chipset.
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kinvermark

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Re: Titan RTX or Radeon VII 7nm ?

PostFri Dec 20, 2019 8:50 pm

FYI, the Newegg.ca deal Carsten referenced approximates to $495 USD.
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Lucius Snow

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Re: Titan RTX or Radeon VII 7nm ?

PostFri Dec 20, 2019 9:23 pm

Take 2 Radeon VII. They're very cheap and give better results than a single RTX Titan X

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Carsten Sellberg

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Re: Titan RTX or Radeon VII 7nm ?

PostFri Dec 20, 2019 9:46 pm

Lucius Snow wrote:Take 2 Radeon VII. They're very cheap and give better results than a single RTX Titan X


Hi.

Then you also have to look into how large a Power Supply you got.
Not all have a Power Supply big enough the swap two 1080ti's out with two Radion VII's.

Regards Carsten.
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Re: Titan RTX or Radeon VII 7nm ?

PostFri Dec 20, 2019 9:56 pm

Plus are these Radeon VII cards with a blower fan? What's the airflow going to be like in your chassis with one of them blocking airflow to the other one?
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Re: Titan RTX or Radeon VII 7nm ?

PostFri Dec 20, 2019 10:32 pm

Just a test of the Radeon VII vs. the others in Resolve https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/DaVinci-Resolve-15-AMD-Radeon-VII-16GB-Performance-1382/

And you can use the Radeon VII in a hackintosh (NVidia is not supported).
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David Cherniack

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Re: Titan RTX or Radeon VII 7nm ?

PostFri Dec 20, 2019 10:38 pm

Yeah, there is about a 20% return rate on the XFX R7. That doesn't bother me too much, and at a quarter of the price of a Titan RTX the loss of CUDA for where CUDA shines, is bearable. I am concerned that the 16GB of vram won't be enough to cancel out the GPU memory errors caused by Fusion usage. It probably is hard to predict
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Carsten Sellberg

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Re: Titan RTX or Radeon VII 7nm ?

PostSat Dec 21, 2019 12:12 pm

David Cherniack wrote: I am concerned that the 16GB of vram won't be enough to cancel out the GPU memory errors caused by Fusion usage. It probably is hard to predict


Hi.

I will like to repeat a section of my previous post:
All Radion VII have HBCC that can be turned on or off. QUOTE: 'The “Vega” architecture has a feature meant to deal with situations like this one: the High Bandwidth Cache Controller (HBCC). The HBCC reserves a portion of system memory for use by the GPU, effectively extending the VRAM capacity. The HBCC then manages the migration of data between local VRAM and system memory, making sure the right bits are in VRAM as needed.'

From: https://community.amd.com/community/gam ... -workloads

I didn't try it mi self, but other forum members report that with HBCC set to on, they don't see any vRam memory errors from Resolve.

Regards Carsten
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David Cherniack

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Re: Titan RTX or Radeon VII 7nm ?

PostSat Dec 21, 2019 2:04 pm

Good to hear!
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Re: Titan RTX or Radeon VII 7nm ?

PostSat Dec 21, 2019 10:32 pm

David Cherniack wrote:Good to hear!


Always turn HBCC on with Vega cards, it will swap to system memory when needed (16 GByte of VRAM is already a lot and in 95% of the cases enough for processing 8k material).
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Re: Titan RTX or Radeon VII 7nm ?

PostMon Dec 23, 2019 7:43 pm

I don't know but since I got me a 8GB GPU I haven't had a single GPU memory full error.

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Re: Titan RTX or Radeon VII 7nm ?

PostFri Dec 27, 2019 5:33 pm

Radeon on way from the Newegg sale...now to do the Pixlas mod in the meantime. ;)


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David Cherniack

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Re: Titan RTX or Radeon VII 7nm ?

PostFri Dec 27, 2019 6:17 pm

George Milnes II wrote:Radeon on way from the Newegg sale...now to do the Pixlas mod in the meantime. ;)


This follows from the thread I started about the XFX Radeon 7 having issues with my KVM switch
https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=104860 and should serve as a warning to anyone contemplating ordering the XFX card from Newegg.

Before I ordered the card I called Newegg to check if the card could be returned despite the warning at the bottom of the page saying No Returns. The Newegg Customer support person told me that if I called within a few days and the card, box, and contents were in perfect condition I could return the card. He also told me of the 12 cards returned in the last month only 2 were returned because the card didn't work. In other words 10 were returned for dissatisfaction or compatibility issues. So I ordered the card and it arrived Tuesday evening. The thread about KVM referred to above explains the issues I had with the card in my system. So I called Newegg today to return the card and explained my issues and the conversation I had with the Newegg customer support person on Friday about returning the card. Eventually a supervisor came on and told me they would not stand behind the Customer Support rep's words and take back the card. Simply put, he made a mistake by telling me what he told me. Now, I could have probably made a deal with them to take it back and get a Titan RTX but I wont deal with a company who won't stand behind what their customer relations person tells a potential customer. The supervisor would not reconsider, nor would he let me go higher in the chain.

So I guess the card is for sale, preferably to someone in Canada. It works at 60Hz when not going through my KVM. BTW I noticed the folks at Newegg have increased the price by 130CAD since last Friday. The same customer support rep told me they have a few hundred of then in stock, so this is just what you might call a brazen attempt to pick your pocket.

Caveat emptor. Buy from companies who will stand behind what their people say.
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Re: Titan RTX or Radeon VII 7nm ?

PostFri Dec 27, 2019 9:50 pm

George Milnes II wrote:Radeon on way from the Newegg sale...now to do the Pixlas mod in the meantime. ;)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You might look at this ...

https://thehouseofmoth.com/mac-pro-pixl ... ly-needed/

I have had a number of cards ... Titan Black ... Vega 56 ... now Radeon VII in my 5.1 without the Pixlas
mod ... no panics no restarts ... but I do not game.

However ... 5.7 Q0 BRAW to 2K DCI pushes the VII ... still no problems with the card nor the computer.
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David Cherniack

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Re: Titan RTX or Radeon VII 7nm ?

PostTue Jan 07, 2020 1:20 am

David Cherniack wrote:So I guess the card is for sale


As mentioned I've posted this card fro sale in the Off-Topic section. NewEgg.ca has now increased their price to 809CAD.
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Re: Titan RTX or Radeon VII 7nm ?

PostTue Jan 07, 2020 5:43 am

Hi David

Sorry to hear about your problems.
Are you sure that your kvm so support 4k@60 with other cards?

I thought that perhaps it would be cheaper to look for a new kvm and keep the VII instead of selling the VII at a loss.
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kinvermark

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Re: Titan RTX or Radeon VII 7nm ?

PostTue Jan 07, 2020 5:49 am

No loss, he's got it priced at pretty much same as he paid for it. Neat trick, eh?
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Re: Titan RTX or Radeon VII 7nm ?

PostTue Jan 07, 2020 6:18 am

True. :)
But asking for and sold for does not always end up being the same.
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David Cherniack

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Re: Titan RTX or Radeon VII 7nm ?

PostTue Jan 07, 2020 2:20 pm

Username wrote:Hi David

Sorry to hear about your problems.
Are you sure that your kvm so support 4k@60 with other cards?

I thought that perhaps it would be cheaper to look for a new kvm and keep the VII instead of selling the VII at a loss.


My KVM supports Displayport 4096x2160 @ 60Hz with my nVidia 1080ti without issues. It was the only one on the market that did C4K when I bought it a couple of years ago. It's marketed by ioGear but made by Aten who make excellent switches that I've used for 15 years. There's now a few more available for the close to 500CAD that I paid for mine. So to try other KVMs is not a winning proposition in terms of time and cost. I was told by the XFX support that the electonics of the Radeon 7 are made by AMD so even to try other Radeon 7s is an unlikely proposition. Like I said, the Radeon works fine @60Hz when going directly to a monitor but the switch is central to my operation.
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David Cherniack

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Re: Titan RTX or Radeon VII 7nm ?

PostTue Jan 07, 2020 2:24 pm

kinvermark wrote:No loss, he's got it priced at pretty much same as he paid for it. Neat trick, eh?


No trick at all. I'm proposing the buyer saves 179CAD over NewEgg's present price and I take a a loss of 30CAD and a great deal more in lost time.
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kinvermark

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Re: Titan RTX or Radeon VII 7nm ?

PostTue Jan 07, 2020 2:43 pm

$30 "saving" is nullified by your shipping options likely being far more expansive than Newegg's (~$10)

Your "lost time" is not the concern of the buyer.

Newegg has offered the lower price at least three times over the last several weeks. They probably will do so again.

You are collecting taxes, so I hope you will be providing your tax registration number as required by Canadian law. For provinces without HST, only the 5% GST portion is "deductible" in the way you mention.

IMO, you are overcharging for used goods. I see this kind of thinking all the time on Craigslist and Ebay, and feel it is my civic duty to bring this to peoples attention. I have no interest in buying it myself, so have nothing to gain.
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David Cherniack

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Re: Titan RTX or Radeon VII 7nm ?

PostTue Jan 07, 2020 3:14 pm

kinvermark wrote:$30 "saving" is nullified by your shipping options likely being far more expansive than Newegg's (~$10)

Your "lost time" is not the concern of the buyer.

Newegg has offered the lower price at least three times over the last several weeks. They probably will do so again.

You are collecting taxes, so I hope you will be providing your tax registration number as required by Canadian law. For provinces without HST, only the 5% GST portion is "deductible" in the way you mention.

IMO, you are overcharging for used goods. I see this kind of thinking all the time on Craigslist and Ebay, and feel it is my civic duty to bring this to peoples attention. I have no interest in buying it myself, so have nothing to gain.


30$ is my loss. $179 is the buyer's saving at the present time. If they wish to wait for NewEgg to drop their price again, their choice though I've noticed that generally, the rarer that EOL products become, thee higher their market price which appears to be the trend with NewEgg's stock since Xmas.

Sales tax is sales tax by law. My invoice to a Canadian buyer will state my registration #. If the buyer is in a 5% province, that's all I can charge. I claim my 13%, they claim their 5%. If the buyer is international there's no sales tax.

Used Goods? It's normally considered Open Box and tested (for 5 minutes). But clearly you have issues with it....as is your right...but not necessarily your duty.

I prefer selling it to a Resolve user. But it will soon go on eBay at the preset price which, as of yesterday, is significantly less than any open box Radeon 7 (600USD)
David
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kinvermark

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Re: Titan RTX or Radeon VII 7nm ?

PostTue Jan 07, 2020 4:24 pm

Hi David,

Fair enough. It's not personal, and you have, to your credit, been completely transparent about what you paid. It is now up to buyers to determine the market value.

In general, however, I feel that many "used" markets are actually dysfunctional, and Canadians in particular pay unjustifiably high prices for almost all goods - simply because we accept this status quo.

Of course, it is even worse for the UK and Europe. I had dealers there mark up software 400% even though they had virtually no transaction or support costs!
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Re: Titan RTX or Radeon VII 7nm ?

PostWed Jan 08, 2020 12:44 pm

Just an FYI for anyone who is wondering about the sales tax thing:

I paid 13% (Ontario HST) on the 660CAD purchase price. Because my business is incorporated with a sales tax registration, I claim that 13% back from the Canadian govt. If I sell the card to someone in Canada I charge them their provincial sales tax rate on the 630CAD purchase price. I then send that sales tax amount to the govt. If the purchaser has a sales tax registration they claim that amount back. It all works out in the wash and the only winner is the govt.....naturally.
David
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Rakesh Malik

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Re: Titan RTX or Radeon VII 7nm ?

PostWed Jan 08, 2020 6:49 pm

David Cherniack wrote:The price is right, probably because it's a discontinued card and is based on the 14nm architecture, I believe. Seems to be issues with quality control according to the review. And I wonder if 16GB is enough...


No, it's the same 7nm GPU that Apple is using in its NMP. But it's a Vega rather than Navi, hence the discontinuation -- it's a generation out of date already, but AMD hasn't put the pedal to the GPU metal yet.

I tried one, and had high hopes for it due to its compute performance, but ended up getting better performance with an nVidia 1070... I was bummed about that.
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Dieter Scheel

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Re: Titan RTX or Radeon VII 7nm ?

PostWed Jan 08, 2020 9:15 pm

I usually stay as far away as I can from anything AMD GPU. I'd always recommend an Nvidia GTX or RTX, better driver, more perfomance (for the money you pay) and a very good energy efficiency which makes everything cooler and less fan noise. Always had issues and trouble with AMDs GPU and as good as no trouble at all with NVidia GPUs (WIndows 10 and Linux).

Just my two cents from four years of IT experience.
Resolve Studio 16.2.3, Linux Mint 19.3, 32GB RAM, i7-6700K, RTX2070 8GB (440.100), Intensity Pro (11.4)

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MishaEngel

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Re: Titan RTX or Radeon VII 7nm ?

PostWed Jan 08, 2020 9:21 pm

Rakesh Malik wrote:I tried one, and had high hopes for it due to its compute performance, but ended up getting better performance with an nVidia 1070... I was bummed about that.


You must be pretty terrible with Computers and Resolve when your 1070 was faster than the Radeon VII in Resolve.
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Rakesh Malik

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Re: Titan RTX or Radeon VII 7nm ?

PostWed Jan 08, 2020 9:26 pm

MishaEngel wrote:You must be pretty terrible with Computers and Resolve when your 1070 was faster than the Radeon VII in Resolve.


You must be terribly clueless then.
Rakesh Malik
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Marco R.

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Re: Titan RTX or Radeon VII 7nm ?

PostThu Jan 09, 2020 11:34 am

I have use the Radeon VII quite 2 Month with overall Problems. Than i switch to RC5700 Xt, Better but not Good enough. Renderproblems with h.264 Overload Vram. So i Order now a 2080 Ti to see if Nvidia is a better choice for me. Im not Happy with AMD and Resolve. For Gaming and Lightroom Photoshop it is very good for the Bug.

JM2C

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