Blackmagic Forum

I have heard that the colour wheels in Resolve are set in such a way to correctly respond to Rec. 709 images.
Does this mean they do not correctly respond when grading straight onto log footage (S-log 3 for example)? And should a Color Space Transform always be done to get to Rec 709 (via OFX plug in or project colour management settings) before grading on an image?

In a youtube video by Juan Melara titled "Insider Knowledge - An Easier Way To Grade Log Footage" he touches on this point but does not go into detail and I'm looking for more info on this specific area.

If so, is it only rec 709 they respond to or do they also work correctly for Rec.2020, P3 and other options?

Thanks for the help in advance.

Dylan Marriott wrote:I have heard that the colour wheels in Resolve are set in such a way to correctly respond to Rec. 709 images.

I question that.

The primary colour controls were originally designed for telecine film transfer to analog or rec601.
They work perfectly for non-log formats.
The primary log colour controls work better for log encoded footage and ACES grading.

Keep in mind this is only how the controls 'feel' to the user and the default ranges they work in. There is no technical limitation of using any of the controls in any colour space as long as the controls achieve the result you want.

Eh, I change the sensitivity of the knobs depending on what panel I'm on. I'm not a fan of trying to color-correct with the mouse: that's just not how I'm wired. I'd jump out the window before I'd do that on a project. n

I get Marc's point.

I feel the same about using a Mac.

I also get Marc's point except I feel like that about using Windows!

Peter Cave wrote:I also get Marc's point except I feel like that about using Windows!

Eh... Mac/Windows/Linux, it's all just a means to an end. Resolve actually works pretty well on all of them, and once you're in the program, the experience is not drastically different. There's pros and cons for all operating systems.

But turning knobs... that's a very subjective experience. There's a different feel on the Avid Color panel, on Tangent, on Resolve Mini, and on Resolve Advanced. Not everybody will agree which works the best, but I think we can all agree that trying to color correct with a mouse is rough. There are systems (like Lustre) that are kind of made for a mouse and keyboard, and some work very well with it. Me personally, I'd go with a big Lustre panel like the Tangent Arc, which I think will make you more productive. In Resolve, almost any panel will be better than a mouse.

The key for me is being able to turn two knobs at the same time, which I do all the time on a panel. Can't do that with a mouse.

For those of us without a color wheel panel, I REALLY wish BMD would give us the option to zoom the color wheel as we can with the vectorscope for more sensitivity and throw when using a mouse. As it is, it's often difficult to make fine adjustments with the mouse.

Erich

ErichLinder wrote:For those of us without a color wheel panel, I REALLY wish BMD would give us the option to zoom the color wheel as we can with the vectorscope for more sensitivity and throw when using a mouse. As it is, it's often difficult to make fine adjustments with the mouse.

I think making fine adjustments with a mouse is almost impossible. It's extremely easy even with a very cheap panel like the Tangent Ripple ($350), and I often recommend something like this for students trying to learn Resolve on a tight budget.

The nice thing about the log controls over the LGG controls is that you can make adjustments by setting the operating range (high range and low range).

Thanks so much. This is the answer I was looking for.

Peter Cave wrote:The primary colour controls were originally designed for telecine film transfer to analog or rec601.
They work perfectly for non-log formats.
The primary log colour controls work better for log encoded footage and ACES grading.

Keep in mind this is only how the controls 'feel' to the user and the default ranges they work in. There is no technical limitation of using any of the controls in any colour space as long as the controls achieve the result you want.

Cary Knoop wrote:The nice thing about the log controls over the LGG controls is that you can make adjustments by setting the operating range (high range and low range).

Be wary, because the image can go south very quickly when you hit the Log controls too hard, or (worse) try to use them like normal Lift/Gamma/Gain knobs. I generally only use the Log controls for trouble spots and fine-tuning the extreme high or extreme low end, not overall adjustments. I think Contrast/Pivot can be useful, and I think a Custom Curve can be useful under the right situations.

Yes, using the Log controls for non-log footage is extremely sensitive.

A good trick to get a feel for what the Log controls and their ranges technically do for 2.4 gamma is to use a grayscale ramp and see how the curve changes in the scopes.

+1 on having a button for zooming in the color wheels! also when you got a 4k screen an 100% scaling its all to small to work with a mouse!

ErichLinder wrote:For those of us without a color wheel panel, I REALLY wish BMD would give us the option to zoom the color wheel as we can with the vectorscope for more sensitivity and throw when using a mouse. As it is, it's often difficult to make fine adjustments with the mouse.

Erich

In case you don't know, you can have increased precision on the color wheels by holding down Cmd/Ctrl. Or Shift if you don't think color grading is enough of a challenge.

Note that you have to hold down the modifier keys before the mouse button for it to work.

I have to say, BMD has done a lot to change and improve the responsiveness of the on-screen GUI knobs in Resolve 17. I think this is very helpful for students and others who are learning the color side of the program, but I still say you're better off using a panel -- any panel -- than trying to use a mouse in Resolve.

peterfox wrote:when you got a 4k screen an 100% scaling its all to small to work with a mouse!

That's how I do it. (Successfully.)

Jim Simon wrote:

peterfox wrote:when you got a 4k screen an 100% scaling its all to small to work with a mouse!

That's how I do it. (Successfully.)

How big is your screen? Laptop with 15" and desktop with 27" are impossible to use at 100% unless I have closeup reading glasses and my nose 6" from the screen.

Well, I agree that any display under 32" with a 2160 native resolution is pointless.

So...don't buy one.

Jim Simon wrote:Well, I agree that any display under 32" with a 2160 native resolution is pointless.

So...don't buy one.

Don’t agree as I have bought them and find them very useful when you apply the correct scaling to read text

But then you lose screen real estate, thus negating the whole point of higher resolution monitors.

Jim Simon wrote:But then you lose screen real estate, thus negating the whole point of higher resolution monitors.

It negates nothing.

what i meant is that the color circle is way to small to make fine adjustments. even holding down cmd does not help. there should be a setting where when u drag the colorwheel the color circle would increase in size 200% or so