Mac Pro 2013 - DaVinci horizontal artefacts - D700 Graphics

Hello everyone,

I have a 2013 trashcan Mac Pro – 8 core, 2x D700 AMD graphics cards.

Rendering often produces red horizontal lines of death, both on the monitor in real time and on the rendered files.

Not good.

Worse: I took it to Apple last week; and they replaced the D700s, at my expense, and gave me the machine back saying that "they hadn't been able to replicate the issue".

But I still have the issue.

From what I've read on this forum, this is a painful and ongoing problem for many; and their D700s work under Boot Camp.

So is it a DaVinci macOS / hardware problem?

Is it an overheating problem?

Will Blackmagic step up to the plate and help to fix?

Thanks in advance...!

Same issue but on the 12-core version.

Really pissed off about it. Only solutions is to render at 1 or 2fps, push the fan to full speed (about 1900 rpm) to keep temperature low and making sure I write to a super fast drive (tb2 ssd drive).

I still get issues at time. And I nearly threw the computer out the window about a thousand times.

When dealing with super hardcore un-moveable deadlines (so most days!), I’ll render a dpx sequence or something that gives me a chance to only re-render the bad frames. Then I convert the final result to Prores. But what. A. Pain.


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I think this is a MacPro6,1 issue. It’s not a great machine by any measure, and heat related issues are commonly complained about across Internet forums.

A friend of mine had almost the exact same issues, but in Premiere. He kept going back and forth with AppleCare, and after an interminably frustrating amount of “troubleshooting” that pissed off my friend to no end, they ended up replacing his D700s, and as far as I know the issues went away.



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[Rohit Gupta]

Make sure you are on 10.14.6 or newer. There were some bugs fixed since 10.13. However, it feels like you are running into a hardware issue, and the only way to fix is to replace it with a GPU with works.

You can try limiting to using just a single GPU (you can disable second GPU from Preferences).

Make sure you are on 10.14.6 or newer. There were some bugs fixed since 10.13. However, it feels like you are running into a hardware issue, and the only way to fix is to replace it with a GPU with works.

You can try limiting to using just a single GPU (you can disable second GPU from Preferences).

Thanks everyone for the replies, but as I said above Apple just charged me to replace both D700s and the issue is still there...

Can I ask how much you paid to get those GPUs replaced out of curiosity?


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Same issue but on the 12-core version.

Really pissed off about it. Only solutions is to render at 1 or 2fps, push the fan to full speed (about 1900 rpm) to keep temperature low and making sure I write to a super fast drive (tb2 ssd drive).

I still get issues at time. And I nearly threw the computer out the window about a thousand times.

When dealing with super hardcore un-moveable deadlines (so most days!), I’ll render a dpx sequence or something that gives me a chance to only re-render the bad frames. Then I convert the final result to Prores. But what. A. Pain.


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Thanks Romain – rendering at 1 or 2fps is not a possibility for me (nor do I expect for most people!) – I transcode on set as a DIT so I need render speeds of up to 80fps as I have a lot of data to transcode.

This is basically the core functionality required for my job, and it's what I need the power of the Mac Pro for.

I just got this machine secondhand of course, as an "upgrade" from my D500 6-core. But it hasn't turned out to be much of an upgrade...!

Oh and Apple charge £325 per D700 card, and of course there are two...

Totally with you on that (and have been doing Daillies so had to rent out a machine on last job).

To me this is something that apple should take care of. You paid once. They need to replace them a thousand times if needed.

The weird thing here is that if I render to HD straight to frame.io or just in H264 (at maximum speed!), I get zero artefacts. But when I try to render a final Prores master of my grades, mostly at 4k but happens in HD at times too, I get all sorts of render glitches, mostly horizontal red or green lines.


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We have several of these machines at work that also do this. It's just terrible hardware design.

Generally we're working with commercials so I don't run into it a lot, but anything more long form is touch and go. It's much more likely to happen where I'm rendering clips higher than HD or using NR.

I use a fan control app to assist cooling but that doesn't always help, and once it starts the only solution is to restart the machine and try again. Trash cans belong in the trash can.

Just want to confirm that this is a MP 6,1 issue. It largely affects dual GPU 6,1. The thermal dissipation is extremely poor on this.
When the CPU and GPU are pegged for too long, artifacts will randomly occur during playback or render. I have seen it in DVR and Adobe Premiere / After Effects.

Make sure you are on 10.14.6 or newer. There were some bugs fixed since 10.13. However, it feels like you are running into a hardware issue, and the only way to fix is to replace it with a GPU with works.

You can try limiting to using just a single GPU (you can disable second GPU from Preferences).

Thanks everyone for your input.

Hi Rohit - can you confirm that What people have said is plausible, that this is a hardware issue caused by heat?

That Davinci could experience errors in this way?

As I said I’ve had the d700s replaced by Apple so brand new GPUs make no difference

Thanks

If you search this forum, you'll find many posts confirming that the 6,1 has thermal problems during demanding renders. Limit the render speed and it should manage, but nothing will change the fact that it's a horrible design.

[Dwaine Maggart]

Having the GPU's replaced is no guarantee that it will fix the issue. I recall reports of people going through 3 or 4 sets of GPU's before getting a set without this issue. That's back when Apple would do that sort of thing.

As reported above, this is not a Resolve specific issue. It's been reported with Premiere Pro as well.

One possible solution, if you want to hack your OS, is to use an external GPU in a TB2 expansion chassis. Apple doesn't support TB2 external GPU's, thus the need for an OS hack.

Just want to confirm that this is a MP 6,1 issue. It largely affects dual GPU 6,1. The thermal dissipation is extremely poor on this.
When the CPU and GPU are pegged for too long, artifacts will randomly occur during playback or render. I have seen it in DVR and Adobe Premiere / After Effects.

Just to add, we have dozens of MP 6,1 with dual D700. We have sent a handful of them to Apple to be "repaired". Not one of them ever permanently fixed the issue. It is the thermal design and not a broken GPU issue.

So if it’s purely a “thermal design” issue, then does lowering the temperature of the system ‘enough’ fix the problem?


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So if it’s purely a “thermal design” issue, then does lowering the temperature of the system ‘enough’ fix the problem?

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Great question – and I guess what I was trying to ascertain above, whether high temperatures could have this software effect on Premiere and Davinci.

It just seems really odd that the system wouldn't freeze in a more fundamental way if it's having these problems due to heat. Like, surely something would kick in.

The fact that software artefacts are precipitated by specific hardware overheating is strange, no?

**

So one thing is having the nMP in vertical or horizontal – is there any effect there?

And this is something else I was thinking about *anyway* as my machines run hot and I'd like to help them out – mounting a 120mm fan on the top of the machine:

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3706659

If you do try that solution out Davo, do let us know what the outcome is.

So when we talk about temperature, is it cpu or GPU temp? (Or both!?)

The reason I ask is because personally, I’ve been working in a fairly cold room and Kept the fan running at full speed during renders. Even with cpu kept around 41C to 45C, I still see bad renders.


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The fact that software artefacts are precipitated by specific hardware overheating is strange, no?

No, actually. You get similar visual effects in basically anything when a GPU is pushed beyond its limits in that way.

So when we talk about temperature, is it cpu or GPU temp? (Or both!?)

GPU temperature.

So when we talk about temperature, is it cpu or GPU temp? (Or both!?)

GPU temperature.

Makes sense. Not sure a big fan on top would make enough of a difference then.


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If you don't have a good air condition, for testing you could try placing a couple of ice buckets really close to the computer together with a thermometer to see if this makes a difference.

I remember this being an issue more with the 12 core because it heated more.

If it doesn't manifest in shorter renders or when the machine has just started fresh, I would assume it's heat related.

I may have a solution.
Where I work we have 1 Mac Pro (2013) with the 4-core CPU and two D700 and 1 Mac Pro (2013) with the 12-core CPU and two D700; they never had hardware problems that needed assistance or replacements from Apple, but they do render horizontal glitches (green lines, not red) when the temperature is too high.

Those two Macs are placed on a small room with air condition always on. I also installed Macs Fan Control on both to push their fans a little more: Macs Fan Control is setup to mantain the temperature of the CPU PECI sensor between 35 and 60°C, because I noticed that this sensor is one of the most hot and above 70°C the glitches start to appear in my renders.

Usually this is enough to edit and render some previews or to export something out of After Effects (apparently AE works well also when the temperature goes beyond 70°C), but when I am ready to deliver a master in DaVinci I need two more things: in the Delivery page I set the render speed to 75% and the "updates during render" on the top right corner is off.

With all these precautions I always get clean exports and the temperature never goes beyond 70°C on the CPU sensor. Note that renders from AE do not suffer from high temperatures, maybe because it does not use GPUs that much?

Yes, as I understand Resolve is very gpu demanding.

Just to clarify, I've seen the green lines from gpu overheating but never seen or heard about red lines. I'm just assuming from the setup and conversation, it is the same issue but might not be the case.

Yes, as I understand Resolve is very gpu demanding.

Just to clarify, I've seen the green lines from gpu overheating but never seen or heard about red lines. I'm just assuming from the setup and conversation, it is the same issue but might not be the case.

The video corruption manifests itself differently. In Premiere we often, but not always, see white or black squares. In After Effects, it is green.

I may have a solution.
Where I work we have 1 Mac Pro (2013) with the 4-core CPU and two D700 and 1 Mac Pro (2013) with the 12-core CPU and two D700; they never had hardware problems that needed assistance or replacements from Apple, but they do render horizontal glitches (green lines, not red) when the temperature is too high.

Those two Macs are placed on a small room with air condition always on. I also installed Macs Fan Control on both to push their fans a little more: Macs Fan Control is setup to mantain the temperature of the CPU PECI sensor between 35 and 60°C, because I noticed that this sensor is one of the most hot and above 70°C the glitches start to appear in my renders.

Usually this is enough to edit and render some previews or to export something out of After Effects (apparently AE works well also when the temperature goes beyond 70°C), but when I am ready to deliver a master in DaVinci I need two more things: in the Delivery page I set the render speed to 75% and the "updates during render" on the top right corner is off.

With all these precautions I always get clean exports and the temperature never goes beyond 70°C on the CPU sensor. Note that renders from AE do not suffer from high temperatures, maybe because it does not use GPUs that much?

Thank you for sharing this!

I will definitely test this.

Obviously it's very frustrating if the only way we can use our machines is by throttling them.

So when we talk about temperature, is it cpu or GPU temp? (Or both!?)

GPU temperature.

Makes sense. Not sure a big fan on top would make enough of a difference then.


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Yet another trip to the Apple Store today.

No solutions on the horizon.

Part of the issue is that to get the system stressed enough, my experience has been in the field of battle, rendering for 7+ hours a day.

These conditions seem to push it to the temperature at which it produces corruption.

Thanks to all for the suggested solutions – basically, they are throttling Davinci.

Which makes you wonder why you bought a D700 machine in the first place...

My 6-core 2xD500 machine is bullet-proof (for now) – but the 8-core D700 doesn't cut it in the field.

I would look at upgrade options for 2020 machines but i'm not seeing the alternatives, really.

I don't have the cash to buy the new Mac Pro.

Some kind of eGPU / MacBook Pro combo, I guess. But it doesn't feel like a great replacement for what I have, plus it means migrating a lot of infrastructure from TB2 to TB3.

Given that I work with a lot of card readers, hard drives, hubs etc, this is a lot of replacement or dongle buying.

Sigh.

Progress!

Thanks again everyone

I have a 2017 15" MacBook Pro with an external egpu. I feel this setup is much faster (haven't measured it) than the maximum spec 8 core I used to work with.

And even without the egpu I felt my MacBook was faster for some tasks then the trashcan. This might be due to software optimization.

If budget permits, for field work I would definitely consider a new 16" MacBook Pro with a powerful egpu.

I don't have the cash to buy the new Mac Pro.

Some kind of eGPU / MacBook Pro combo, I guess. But it doesn't feel like a great replacement for what I have, plus it means migrating a lot of infrastructure from TB2 to TB3.

If you don't desperately need portability, I'd go for an iMac (non Pro). You may be surprised what it can do compared to the Trashcan. And then, AFAIK, it has two TB busses and you could use one for TB3 and an eGPU (if needed at all) and one with a TB3/TB2 adapter for existing infrastructure. Which kind of infrastructure is that? What was working with TB2 will not really throttle an iMac at all.

I don't have the cash to buy the new Mac Pro.

Some kind of eGPU / MacBook Pro combo, I guess. But it doesn't feel like a great replacement for what I have, plus it means migrating a lot of infrastructure from TB2 to TB3.

If you don't desperately need portability, I'd go for an iMac (non Pro). You may be surprised what it can do compared to the Trashcan. And then, AFAIK, it has two TB busses and you could use one for TB3 and an eGPU (if needed at all) and one with a TB3/TB2 adapter for existing infrastructure. Which kind of infrastructure is that? What was working with TB2 will not really throttle an iMac at all.

You'd go for iMac over a 16" Macbook Pro?

TB2, I'm running:

1. Memory Card reader
2. USB hub
3. Blackmagic Thunderbolt to SDI
4. Hard Drive
5. Hard Drive
6. Spare

So that's a lot to fit through one TB bus – AFAIK the 2013 Mac Pro had 3 buses for the 6 ports?

That’s right. 3 bus for the 6 ports.


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I have a 2017 15" MacBook Pro with an external egpu. I feel this setup is much faster (haven't measured it) than the maximum spec 8 core I used to work with.

And even without the egpu I felt my MacBook was faster for some tasks then the trashcan. This might be due to software optimization.

If budget permits, for field work I would definitely consider a new 16" MacBook Pro with a powerful egpu.

My experience is my 8-core trash cab is leagues ahead of the same MacBook Pro as yours - but without the eGPU.

I think it’s time for a total rethink!

I would look at upgrade options for 2020 machines but i'm not seeing the alternatives, really.

You have been totally screwed by Apple, unfortunately. $2000 would buy you a PC that runs circles around the trashcans. If you're tied to MacOS for other reasons, you don't really have a choice but to save money for a very expensive purchase.

I would look at upgrade options for 2020 machines but i'm not seeing the alternatives, really.

You have been totally screwed by Apple, unfortunately. $2000 would buy you a PC that runs circles around the trashcans. If you're tied to MacOS for other reasons, you don't really have a choice but to save money for a very expensive purchase.

Apple Store is pretty well infinite support but I take your point.

How’s transcoding support for ProRes in Davinci PC just now?

I’d consider the switch if it handled Prores without complaint

You can work on ProRes media without doing anything. You can't render it directly from Resolve to ProRes, but it's available in other tools like Fusion standalone and Assimilate Scratch.

Or in Kyno.

I would look at upgrade options for 2020 machines but i'm not seeing the alternatives, really.

You have been totally screwed by Apple, unfortunately. $2000 would buy you a PC that runs circles around the trashcans. If you're tied to MacOS for other reasons, you don't really have a choice but to save money for a very expensive purchase.

I think if he's doing dailies from Resolve, he's pretty much tied to a Mac because of the proress limitation on PC.

I would look at upgrade options for 2020 machines but i'm not seeing the alternatives, really.

You have been totally screwed by Apple, unfortunately. $2000 would buy you a PC that runs circles around the trashcans. If you're tied to MacOS for other reasons, you don't really have a choice but to save money for a very expensive purchase.

I think if he's doing dailies from Resolve, he's pretty much tied to a Mac because of the proress limitation on PC.

I don't feel "screwed" by Apple – their customer support online, on the phone, and in person at the Apple Stores is unmatched.

And as a business customer with them my support options are even greater.

That said, the fact that Nvidia cards are no longer supported is incredibly annoying. To be cut off from that power and those options sucks.

And yeah – the Scratch type options aren't great. They tend to be a monthly subscription – at a significant price.

It also means that I break my workflow – right now I enjoy color correction, file management and delivery/render options all within Davinci Resolve Studio.

I'm not terrified of changing this up, but to switch to PC after a lifetime on Mac isn't really an easy ask.

My industry – commercial, music video and film alike – is a Mac industry. So introducing PC to the delivery chain isn't a great move in my view.

I'm not terrified of changing this up, but to switch to PC after a lifetime on Mac isn't really an easy ask.

You've basically backed yourself into a corner then. I've always been a Mac user, and went from G5 Mac Pro --> Intel Mac Pro (5,1) --> trashcan Mac Pro (6,1) back in 2013 when it was first launched. It lived up to its nickname immediately: trash. Apple screwed up with that design something awful, and it pushed me away from using Macs on the desktop. I sold my Mac Pro after three months of using it, and as much as I hated running everything on my PC, I was happy that Mac was out of my life.

Windows sucks. Always has, always will. But the PC itself just ran so much smoother than that turd of a Mac.

I'm sorry to say it, but you have a cylindrical turd sitting on your desk. And that was almost immediately apparent back in 2013/2014 when the folks running Premiere Pro were seeing the horizontal lines in their exports.

At this point, you have three choices as I see it:
1. Keep struggling with your current Mac Pro and deal with the fact that you'll have GPU overheating issues. And you will, too. It's just an accepted "thing" with those specific Macs.

2. Migrate to Windows. I know this isn't particularly appealing, specially given the background of your business and the fact that you're entrenched in the MacOS environment. But you'll spend less on comparably-performing hardware, and have access to a lot of the same software. Not all of it, but a lot of it.

3. Business expense time: suck it up and get a new Mac Pro. Yep, they're expensive as all hell. But Resolve runs superbly on them, and it keeps you in the MacOS environment. In fact, this new Mac Pro is what brought me back to running Macs on the desktop. It's an awesome but expensive design. And it works wonderfully.

You do have another cost-effective and Mac-based option: Get yourself a 2010-2012 Mac Pro (the old tower). Make sure it's an 8-core or higher as they can be configured with 128GB of RAM.

If you go to BareFeats.com and other sites you'll see how to configure the old tower into a massively powerful edit machine that will far surpass the ill-fated turbo-tube.

MacVidCards.com is a great resource for finding high-end vid-cards that will make your Resolve experience fantastic.

The only snag is that ever since the covid-virus nonsense people have been gobbling up the 8, 10, and 12-core machines, so they're harder to find. DO NOT get a 4-6 core machine, they are limited to 48GB of RAM; your Resolve experience (or any other NLE for that matter) will breathe freely with anything over 64gigs of RAM, trust me. I've spent tons of time testing this.

There's no reason to go backwards and reinvent the wheel by switching to Windows; the time lost in the conversion and additional costs aren't justified.

Check out the resources I mentioned and find your machine - I'm on the hunt myself.

You do have another cost-effective and Mac-based option: Get yourself a 2010-2012 Mac Pro (the old tower). Make sure it's an 8-core or higher as they can be configured with 128GB of RAM.

In my opinion, this is a very bad and misleading suggestion. The 5,1 Macs aren't supported by Apple any longer, and you're basically SOL when it comes to OS updates. Further, while you can conceivably get some of the older NVidia cards running on them, their PCI-E is slower, their storage is slow, and, of course, their CPUs are painfully slow in comparison to what's available today. Anything that even remotely involves the CPU is going to see you twiddling your thumbs in comparison.

Don't do that. Leave the 5,1s to the die-hards that don't accept (or can't afford so they say they don't accept) the new Mac Pro as the boss.

You do have another cost-effective and Mac-based option: Get yourself a 2010-2012 Mac Pro (the old tower). Make sure it's an 8-core or higher as they can be configured with 128GB of RAM.

In my opinion, this is a very bad and misleading suggestion. The 5,1 Macs aren't supported by Apple any longer, and you're basically SOL when it comes to OS updates. Further, while you can conceivably get some of the older NVidia cards running on them, their PCI-E is slower, their storage is slow, and, of course, their CPUs are painfully slow in comparison to what's available today. Anything that even remotely involves the CPU is going to see you twiddling your thumbs in comparison.

Don't do that. Leave the 5,1s to the die-hards that don't accept (or can't afford so they say they don't accept) the new Mac Pro as the boss.

Jason, before you make wide-ranging comments like this you should see the benchmarks and research that well-respected people, like Rob from BareFeats, has put into this. Your so-called advice is not only inaccurate it is in point of fact, misleading itself. You may not like or fully understand the capabilities of the older MP tower, but hundreds of people in the industry, such as myself, would strongly disagree.

It's one thing to have an opinion, it's another to share it as if it's the final word. Do your research before making unbiased claims.

My usual thermal Trashcan Mac advice:

1) install Macs Fan Control (a free utility), which will keep you advised on internal temperature.
https://www.crystalidea.com/macs-fan-control

2) shut the machine off for about half an hour and let it cool down. Reboot and the displayed temperature should be about 90°F.

3) Launch Resolve and ramp up the Macs Fan Control fans to 1800RPM (close to maximum).

4) render out the material at a low fps setting, say around 10fps or so to minimize stressing out the GPUs.

5) run no apps in the background and do not do any other operations while the renders are running. You may get slightly better performance by choosing "Minimize interface updates during playback" in General Options.

I can generally get 20-30 minutes of material rendered before the temperature exceeds 140° and the glitches begin. If that happens, I do a pickup edit and join the files together as a separate operation and a final pass.

Be especially wary of GPU-intensive operations like Noise Reduction and OFX effects, which tend to cause more stress and more heat for the GPUs. Apple has admitted their mistake with inadequate cooling in the Mac Pros.

Our ultimate solution was to get rid of the original 8-core Trashcan Mac and get a replacement 12-core from Apple (at an accommodation price), and that was absolutely glitch free for more than 18 months. And then recently, we replaced that with the 2019 Mac Pro, which has been fine (but does run a bit hot).

Even if we have bought, upgraded and successfully used old MacPro 5,1 machines for Red footage over three years, I would also warn against them today. Yes, they are a dead end. Sooner or later you won't be able to run Resolve on them any more. Even now it's already an unofficial installation under High Sierra.

If you really need the power of a current MacPro, you should also make the money to get one. If that is not the case, have a closer look at the iMac (non Pro), they are surprisingly capable. If needed for rendering times, get an eGPU too (doesn't need to be from Apple/BM, see my sig).

Even if we have bought, upgraded and successfully used old MacPro 5,1 machines for Red footage over three years, I would also warn against them today. Yes, they are a dead end. Sooner or later you won't be able to run Resolve on them any more. Even now it's already an unofficial installation under High Sierra.

If you really need the power of a current MacPro, you should also make the money to get one. If that is not the case, have a closer look at the iMac (non Pro), they are surprisingly capable. If needed for rendering times, get an eGPU too (doesn't need to be from Apple/BM, see my sig).

I agree on the dead end - no thunderbolt for a start.

Thanks for the iMac suggestion.

Because at issue is what is the midrange machine that is capable while field ready.

Suggestions for the current MacPro skirt over the fact that it could be a £10,000 machine.

That’s not a fun value to cart around from dusty set to set.

I’m sure it’s a great machine but the component value to price value is insane even by apples standards.

I’ve looked deeply into Hackintosh but I can never pull the trigger because it adds so many points of potential failure.

I’m looking between the new iMac and the 16” MacBook Pro.

Thanks all

Now, anyone want to buy 2x 2013 Mac Pro’s

Your so-called advice is not only inaccurate it is in point of fact, misleading itself. You may not like or fully understand the capabilities of the older MP tower

Um. Sorry, but you've no idea of my background with said. I've gutted my previous 5,1 and upgraded it to the highest core count Xeons available from Intel at the time (times two, of course). And I know the fella that runs MacVidCards quite well in fact. I know what he's capable of doing and producing, having used his products in said 5,1 until I decommissioned it.

It's one thing to have an opinion, it's another to share it as if it's the final word. Do your research before making unbiased claims.

I don't need to "do my research". I've been there. Done that. Have the t-shirt, etc. As Uli pointed out: it's a dead platform from a SUPPORT PERSPECTIVE. You can't run modern day OSs on it, and at some point Resolve is going to require libraries that are in those modern day OSs. Guess where that leaves the 5,1 users?

And there's no arguing with the fact that the PCI bus is a generation (now two, soon to be three) old. And the SATA is Gen 2, meaning it's slow as hell. There's no reliable option for Thunderbolt-3, either.

Dead. Platform. Get over yourselves, or don't and keep stumbling along slooooowwwwllly.

Bad suggestion is bad. And I think our OP gets that.

For those with overheating D700's I have seen some run a Cool Master Laptop pad underneath the MP6.1
https://www.coolermaster.com/catalog/co ... al-x-slim/ there is also this solution as well https://www.speed-designs.com/product-p ... oling-base

GPU replacement won't fix this issue. There are two solutions:

- external GPU;
- a fan underneath the trashcan.

Or a better machine! This was the worst crap Apple ever produced, combined with faulty GPU.

The problem will not always be reproduced without trying Resolve since our favorite software is challenging the GPU like no other (apart from some benchmarks, maybe).