Encoder plugin packs

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DonTequila

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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostMon Feb 22, 2021 8:35 am

Captain Red wrote:
Peter Chamberlain wrote:Hello all, we want to let you know about a new feature in v17 that allows companies to offer a plugin pack for additional and optimized render formats.

The first company to offer this is MainConcept who have a Codec Plugin which offers DaVinci Resolve Studio users the ability to directly export a number of codec types like AS-11 UK DPP SD or HD compliant content, or rendered into HEVC in up to 8K resolution. With the plugin, projects can be rendered into professional broadcast camcorder formats, allowing exported video to remain in the original recording format.

Visit mainconcept.com/bmd-beta to see how it integrates into the Blackmagic Design DaVinci Resolve timeline and sign up for the free beta, available for Windows, macOS, and Linux.


RE: encoding plug-ins - I just upgraded to Studio and don't see H.265 Master in the launch panel. Digging through the manual and forums didn't give me any insights. Apologies if this is covered elsewhere. This Codec Plugin sounds great and will investigate.


This is a coming through a 3rd party plugin by MainConcept: https://www.mainconcept.com/bmd-beta/
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OliverZ

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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostMon Mar 01, 2021 12:42 pm

I had the same problem. The plugins will not work under the beta. When I then updated to Studio Version 17, the plugins were still not visible!
Only when I uninstalled and reinstalled the MainConcept SW were the plugins visible in Resolve Studio.
However, for me only the MP4 265 codec is interesting and Resolve can do that wonderfully in connection with my NVIDIA 1660 ....
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Peter Chamberlain

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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostWed Mar 10, 2021 7:10 am

Note: this plugin pack is now released.
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antoine

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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostWed Mar 10, 2021 11:38 am

Great. And the official release is in DaVinci Resolve Studio installation, correct ?
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Reynaud Venter

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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostWed Mar 10, 2021 11:47 am

antoine wrote:Great. And the official release is in DaVinci Resolve Studio installation, correct ?
The MainConcept Codec plugin has a separate installer and requires a separate license.

https://www.mainconcept.com/products/pl ... s/bmd.html
Last edited by Reynaud Venter on Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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CougerJoe

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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostWed Mar 10, 2021 11:49 am

It's $100
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostWed Mar 10, 2021 12:25 pm

Not that bad price. Maybe could be 50. For less its not worth developing in first place.
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antoine

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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostThu Mar 11, 2021 12:30 pm

Reynaud Venter wrote:
antoine wrote:Great. And the official release is in DaVinci Resolve Studio installation, correct ?
The MainConcept Codec plugin has a separate installer and requires a separate license.

https://www.mainconcept.com/products/pl ... s/bmd.html


Of course, Sorry for the confusion I thought that the "plugin pack" mentioned was the Exporter SDK
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Scott E. Smith

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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostFri Mar 12, 2021 1:36 pm

Has anyone used the Main Concept plug in for AS-11 DPPs? It looks like you manually edit the XML in a text editor. I asked and they don't have any recommendations on an XML editor. The DPP program has metadata questions, re-wraps the MXF and adds the metadata. But I didn't see any of the DPP metadata questions in the demo video.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostFri Mar 12, 2021 2:00 pm

Eg. Sublime for Mac or Notepad++ on PC are fine.
It's just simple XML, so any XML editor will do.

If you have access to old DPP metadata app then you can use it as validation tool.

Whole workflow is far from optimal. It's not like you edit your master and export using DPP preset.
You have to remember that DPP is based on strict timeline layout with correct bars, audio tones etc. You have to have it prepared in Resolve as template project. Audio channel layout schemas are fixed as well.
If there are parts you have to correctly aligned them to next full minute (or further next if last part ends to close to next part slate). Each part needs to end with 5 seconds hold (optional by spec itself but quite often mandatory forced by particular delivery point).
Once you have whole timeline sorted then you need to edit XML.
All parts start/duration need to be filled with total duration as well. All mandatory bits also need to be adjusted. Mainconcept XML is just a template, so it will always need editing.
Files have to be R128 audio and EBU-R103 gamut normalised (Resolve video output should be fine).
For many deliveries you need eye ball report and auto QC report from approved auto QC tool.

For UK you need PSE certificate from one of the approved tools, like Vidchecker, Harding etc.

In case of broadcasters typically all of it is required, so creating DPP master is a lot of work.

If you're trying to do it first time I can assure you it will take bit of time to do.
Follow one of the specs which are out there, eg. SKY UK:

http://dpp-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-c ... rdsSky.pdf

they all based on the same main DPP spec, with possible small (less important ) differences.
There are some assets on DPP website (bars, tones ), but since they changed website it's so hard to find them :)
Link to old DPP app (32bit):
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... 2SWQ6XIqx_

Last thing- now when many people got around DPP format, it's probably going to be changed to IMF :) (although probably not that quickly).

Does plugin require Studio version?
Last edited by Andrew Kolakowski on Fri Mar 12, 2021 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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antoine

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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostFri Mar 12, 2021 6:36 pm

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:Does plugin require Studio version?
I think so, for now the exporter API is only for DVR Studio
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Kris Limbach

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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 1:10 pm

just trying them out, looking good so far. what would be a recommended codec from the main concept plugin for export to youtube/ vimeo?

like the resolve options unfortunately do not work for me well (linux) and i need always to export some snippets for revision or "dailies"...
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 3:19 pm

Mainconcept's h264/5 are okish.
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CptCurk

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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostTue Mar 16, 2021 3:43 pm

Just discovered that option which is hudge. :o

Don't know what's the limit as I don't know how to code any langages at all. But if some strong guys could integrate a "FFMPEG shell for commande line" directly into Davinci Resolve...
That could be juste amazing ! I hope someone will find the time to dig that Idea :idea:
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostTue Mar 16, 2021 4:01 pm

Option is few months old now, but no ffmpeg plugin so far.

Maybe we should make crowdfunding campaign, raise money and then pay developer to write it.
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Mark Foster

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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostTue Mar 16, 2021 5:22 pm

the problem with ffmeg is that, although open source, they are in a grey area.

as an example, they do not have a license to apples prores.
unfortunately i don't know about other licensed codecs.

therefore, blackmagic must also beware of making this impementation!


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Gary Hango

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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostTue Mar 16, 2021 6:04 pm

Mark Foster wrote:the problem with ffmeg is that, although open source, they are in a grey area.

as an example, they do not have a license to apples prores.
unfortunately i don't know about other licensed codecs.

therefore, blackmagic must also beware of making this impementation!


.

BMD is not responsible for licensing of codecs implemented by developers using the plugin SDK.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostTue Mar 16, 2021 10:20 pm

BM has nothing to do with plugins. It's plugin developer who is responsible. With ffmpeg responsibility is actually shifted even further to the end user. Not a single company is going to chase single users at homes :D
ProRes is not that big deal anymore. Good to have official implementation, but it's more accessible now.
ffmpeg is not just ProRes, but tons of other useful things.
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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostWed Mar 17, 2021 7:19 am

The problem might arise if money is involved. Apple seems to tolerate ffmpeg ProRes encoding as long as it's free.
But when a company named Cinemartin made a commercial product called Cinec and based on that reverse engineered ProRes, it seems Apple's layers stepped in. Anyway, that product disappeared quickly.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostWed Mar 17, 2021 11:29 am

Yes, because then things are easy for them and they can complain you are trying to make money on their 'technology'. They are after company. Single point. If you are a user who uses ffmpeg at home then there is no way they are going to chase you.
Anyway- if you happy with Apple terms ProRes license is free and now about every key software has it.
Resolve is an exception now.
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Mark Foster

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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostWed Mar 17, 2021 10:50 pm

sorry, a ProRes license is NOT free

and here you see the licensee:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT200321

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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostWed Mar 17, 2021 11:55 pm

And where is the word about cost in your link?
This is just a list of companies which licensed ProRes, nothing more.
I know it for fact (from companies which are on this list) that it costs you nothing to get license these days. You just have to sign an agreement with Apple, integrate libraries to your app and get Apple to approve it (which is somehow good as thanks to this ProRes integrations are most solid out of all codecs- can't tell this about eg. DNxHR or Cineform). Same applies to ProResRAW decoder. What will cost you is ProResRAW encoder, but this is for camera/recorder manufactures not app developers.

I thought people got over this made up story about some unrealistic fees for ProRes license :)
I'm not sure if Apple ever charged any fee (maybe), but it's not the case now (at least few years). In the past Apple just wasn't willing to give license to any who wanted it, so only some software had it (also- Apple mandated Windows Server os). It's not the case anymore. Plenty apps now have certified encoder, including small apps.
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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostThu Mar 18, 2021 12:10 pm

Yep. Even Magix Vegas Pro now has an official Apple ProRes encoder/decoder in latest release (they had an unofficial compatible one prior to this).

So, like it or not, it looks like ProRes is emerging as the best choice of universal intermediate. Sure would make life easier if Resolve for Windows could encode.
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Robert Niessner

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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostTue Mar 23, 2021 12:15 pm

I have now loaned the developer of the free Voukoder(system wide video- and audio encoding service for Windows) one of my 3 Resolve Studio licenses so he can dive into the new SDK possibilities. My hope is that he is able to adapt Voukoder for Resolve which would mean that we finally would get ProRes export capabilities on Windows. Voukoder does also encode to x264 / x265 / FFV1 / HAP / UTVideo / VP8 / VP9 / TIFF & BMP image sequences

Currently ProRes in MOV only, but I asked if he could support MXF OP1a with up to 16 ch too.

Are there any other features you guys are looking for which Voukoder could provide?
Last edited by Robert Niessner on Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostTue Mar 23, 2021 12:21 pm

Simple text box where you type ffmpeg command would be already great (then it's all about sharing good commands).
This way you can do whatever ffmpeg can. GUI is good for few key codecs, as otherwise it gets very complex.
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Robert Niessner

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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostTue Mar 23, 2021 1:09 pm

Does Resolve support an external muxer?
So he can get both video and audio (in sync) from DVR, send both to Voukoder and Voukoder handles muxing and outputting.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostTue Mar 23, 2021 1:28 pm

Not sure.
You either use Resolve internals or just pipe video+audio in memory and encode/mux whiting other app like ffmpeg. I don't know Resolve plugin architecture.
Current x264 sample plugin uses Resolve internal muxer I think.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostTue Mar 23, 2021 2:02 pm

One of the key elements is accessing either YUV or RGB data. YUV in most cases is preferred (I would say should be mandatory for any YUV based export codec) as this goes inside Resolve through correct color matrix etc. This is quite important. If you pipe RGB out of Resolve then ffmpeg needs to do conversion to YUV, but it has no idea what color matrix to use. We could tell this in command but then we need in/out format to perform correct math. This may be tricky so better rely on Resolve to form final YUV data and just set flags in ffmpeg output stream (eg. HLG, Rec.709 etc) through its command.
For anything RGB based we want opposite. We want final RGB data as it needs no extra conversion, just final encode to chosen format. We don't want YUV which would have to be converted back to RGB.
Last edited by Andrew Kolakowski on Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostTue Mar 23, 2021 3:05 pm

Robert Niessner wrote:I asked if he could support MXF OP1a with up to 16 ch too.
That'd be awesome!
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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostTue Mar 23, 2021 7:55 pm

Robert Niessner wrote:Are there any other features you guys are looking for which Voukoder could provide?


Support for SOURCE TIMECODE and rendering of individual clips (maybe this is obvious?)

Any very rough estimate of when?

Nice of you to do this!

PS "borrowed" in this context means "loaned" - I was a bit confused at first. :)
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostTue Mar 23, 2021 9:53 pm

Jim Simon wrote:
Robert Niessner wrote:I asked if he could support MXF OP1a with up to 16 ch too.
That'd be awesome!


Resolve already does it. Up to 24 channels as 24x mono or as single 24 channels track.
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Robert Niessner

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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostThu Mar 25, 2021 7:50 am

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:
Jim Simon wrote:
Robert Niessner wrote:I asked if he could support MXF OP1a with up to 16 ch too.
That'd be awesome!


Resolve already does it. Up to 24 channels as 24x mono or as single 24 channels track.


Yeah, but not with Prores.
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Robert Niessner

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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostThu Mar 25, 2021 8:06 am

kinvermark wrote:Support for SOURCE TIMECODE and rendering of individual clips (maybe this is obvious?)

This depends on what the API will be able to do - but I will mention it just to make sure.

kinvermark wrote:Any very rough estimate of when?


He does that in his spare time together with versions for Premiere, After Effects, VirtualDub and Vegas Pro. So unfortunately no estimate. First step he does is looking into the API if it can do what he needs for his tool.

kinvermark wrote:PS "borrowed" in this context means "loaned" - I was a bit confused at first. :)


Thanks for pointing that one out.

Sometimes I am confusing lend/loan with borrow as the German word for all of them is "sich von jemandem etwas borgen" (= to borrow something from someone) and "jemandem etwas borgen" (= to loan something to someone)

There is also "jemandem etwas leihen" which is synonym for "borgen". We don't differ between taking and giving something to someone.
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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostThu Mar 25, 2021 4:01 pm

Great to hear that Vouk is taking a crack at this. And for everyone who wants to support this work, I'm a backer of Voukoder on Patreon and I encourage you all to pledge too!
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Robert Niessner

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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostMon Mar 29, 2021 2:11 pm

Vouk has analyzed it today:

After a more in-depth analysis I can say a Voukoder plugin that supports muxed video and audio is possible. Just like with VEGAS and Premiere.
It's just quite some work.
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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostMon Mar 29, 2021 11:35 pm

Robert Niessner wrote:We don't differ between taking and giving something to someone.
How the hell do you write laws against theft?!
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steve_martin_usa

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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostTue Mar 30, 2021 1:30 am

Why not use DNxHR instead of Prores, and be happy?
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Robert Niessner

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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostTue Mar 30, 2021 2:18 pm

Vouk wrote today:

The prototype seems to be working quite nice.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostTue Mar 30, 2021 2:46 pm

steve_martin_usa wrote:Why not use DNxHR instead of Prores, and be happy?


If you work alone you are master of your choices and you don't really need ProRes
Not the case when you work for clients. Then delivery format is not your choice and guess what is asked by far the most ?
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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostTue Mar 30, 2021 3:35 pm

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:
steve_martin_usa wrote:Why not use DNxHR instead of Prores, and be happy?


If you work alone you are master of your choices and you don't really need ProRes
Not the case when you work for clients. Then delivery format is not your choice and guess what is asked by far the most ?


That makes sense.
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Robert Niessner

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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostWed Mar 31, 2021 12:50 am

There is now a first prototype of the Voukoder plugin to test:

https://www.voukoder.org/forum/thread/7 ... 5#post5195
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostWed Mar 31, 2021 10:00 am

Also MainConcept released: "HEIF/MIAF Ingest SDK and Viewer App" for Resolve, which suggest there is possibility to add things on import side as well.
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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostWed Mar 31, 2021 10:08 am

Does it also work for Mainconcept AV1 beta?
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostWed Mar 31, 2021 10:45 am

Don't think so. It says what it's.
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CougerJoe

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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostThu Apr 01, 2021 7:47 am

Robert Niessner wrote:There is now a first prototype of the Voukoder plugin to test:

https://www.voukoder.org/forum/thread/7 ... 5#post5195


When using a hardware encode it can be seen there's an efficiency problem. There seems to be a lot of processing going on, that Resolve doesn't need to do natively. I am guessing this is the 422 to 420 conversion the author speak about. People should consider this when they get excited about using 100% CPU. Using all your CPU inefficiently is just wasting your cpu cycles.

He's done so much in such a short period of time, i'm certain he'll improve the processing overhead and encoding speeds :)
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostThu Apr 01, 2021 9:26 am

You were talking about GPU encoding and with this you may use Resolve exporter as this most likely will be more efficient as in case of plugin it may end up that data leaves GPU and then in plugin has to go back there (which is big performance hit). It's very specific case. Try DNxHD for example. There should be no 2x performance hit.
If you had x264 encoder natively in Resolve and then in plugin I don't think much difference will be there. 422 to 420 conversion during encoding like h264 will take <1% CPU time (unless it's badly written). There is also question about Resolve plugin structure and how well this is written and how much "delay" introduces.
Other than this plugin is still beta version.

Your conclusions are bit misleading, specially when comparing encoding on GPU and later talking about 100% CPU usage :)
Plugin is not created to gain speed but to gain codecs support.

As you see one of the weirdness of plugin API is that YUV format which Resolve sends is full range. Very bad default behaviour.
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DonTequila

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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostThu Apr 01, 2021 11:28 am

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:Also MainConcept released: "HEIF/MIAF Ingest SDK and Viewer App" for Resolve, which suggest there is possibility to add things on import side as well.

Sorry for the confusion. These are two separate beta products:

1. HEIF/MIAF Ingest SDK
2. Plugin for DaVinci Resolve on M1

The HEIF SDK is not related to the DaVinci plugin. There is currently no API in DaVinci for the import plugins.
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Plugin for DaVinci Resolve 17: https://www.mainconcept.com/bmd
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DonTequila

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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostThu Apr 01, 2021 11:31 am

NathanBray wrote:Does it also work for Mainconcept AV1 beta?

No AV1 is not part of the MainConcept plugin. Can you explain the use case for exporting AV1 from Resolve? I'd think there are other encoding options that could fit as well?
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Plugin for DaVinci Resolve 17: https://www.mainconcept.com/bmd
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostThu Apr 01, 2021 3:39 pm

DonTequila wrote:
Andrew Kolakowski wrote:Also MainConcept released: "HEIF/MIAF Ingest SDK and Viewer App" for Resolve, which suggest there is possibility to add things on import side as well.

Sorry for the confusion. These are two separate beta products:

1. HEIF/MIAF Ingest SDK
2. Plugin for DaVinci Resolve on M1

The HEIF SDK is not related to the DaVinci plugin. There is currently no API in DaVinci for the import plugins.



Email was confusing :)
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NathanBray

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Re: Encoder plugin packs

PostThu Apr 01, 2021 10:56 pm

DonTequila wrote:
NathanBray wrote:Does it also work for Mainconcept AV1 beta?

No AV1 is not part of the MainConcept plugin. Can you explain the use case for exporting AV1 from Resolve? I'd think there are other encoding options that could fit as well?


AV1 looks to be a successor to AVC especially for web based playback. It's benefits are:
- It is royalty free which has prevented the wide adoption of HEVC for web use
- There is native decoding support in all major browsers and most OS (exception is currently Apple/Safari even though they are a founding AV1 member)
- AV1 files are much more efficient than AVC for the same quality (and is also better than HEVC)
- HW decoding support has been added in the latest series of GPU (Main Profile, up to 8K/30fps, or 4K/120fps in 4:2:0 at 8/12 bit) which is ideal for consumption
- There is also High and Professional profiles that would be good for Masters (up to 8K, 120fps, 4:4:4, 12 Bit)

While decoding support has expanded dramatically, one hold back is an efficient encoder.
FX6 - UHD AVC 10 Bit 4:2:2 HDR
PC - Win10 Pro, 32GB, i9-9900KF, RTX 3090, NVME for editing, 80TB Drive Pool for Storage, Philips 42" UHD HDR (1,000 peak nits) Monitor
Davinci Resolve Studio 17 & Speed Editor
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