Edit Page Ease In/Out

I was hopping in v17 to see “fixed” the ease in or ease out of a simple (size/POS) keyframe move in the Edit page. I know I can do it in Fusion but this should be a simple thing. In PP I can do the same move and it looks great. No strange move directions of the image. I also know I can in the color page do two KF and then hightlight them and “Change Dynamic Attributes. But more in the regular edit keyframes would help a lot with conforms of documentaries.

I'm finding the Ease working for Position keyframes at least. (Studio 17 for Windows.)

It is not that is does not "work" but if you do a x,y,z transform many/most of the time it does some crazy move. This has been a issue since v14. So I was hopping it would get address in v17. Man v17 has so many great new features.

There is no Z in the inherent Transform. Can you clarify?

a zoom and also changing position. Sorry since every software I use calls it a little different I just averaged the terms. In Premiere Pro and can do the same push in a repo on a photo and then click the KF and choose ease in/out and it does a great ease in and ease out. In Resolve many/most of the time it swings the image way off the path.

OK, yeah I am actually still seeing some issues.

For starters, all of the Easing I did got 'erased' when I closed the project and I had to re-add it.

Additionally, we still don't have the proper Ease In and Ease Out options. Only a combined Ease In and Out which creates weird and unwanted swings in the movement.

Oh well, back to Fusion.

It looks like X,Y easing should work (it's definitely behaving differently) but the easing isn't really there. The curve in the curve editor suggests easing - the results are, sadly, no good!

I did one test of easing a resize on a Text+ generator in DR17 this evening, which I never managed to make work on DR16. It worked perfectly, which made me very happy.

Resize easing has (oddly) worked for a while - it's the x/y easing that does not - and still does not (this is as at Beta6)

This would be such a timesaver for us. I'm currently editing a web series with a lot of picture-animations and it's so tedious always having to switch to the color tab and creating the KF with easing there.

I had a Doc I has 122 photos to do moves on. It was better for me to do them in Premiere Pro, do the simple moves, highlight the KF's and change to Ease In/Out, no fuss and export the moves and bring back into Resolve. I would had loved not to have to do that.

I had a Doc I has 122 photos to do moves on. It was better for me to do them in Premiere Pro, do the simple moves, highlight the KF's and change to Ease In/Out, no fuss and export the moves and bring back into Resolve. I would had loved not to have to do that.

For simple in / out animations (even with different positions) the dynamic zoom tool is really great. I use it for every photo. Very easy, no keyframes, with easing options.

But for everything else... you always have to switch to the color tab (or fusion) to do the dynamic keyframing there. Or you switch to PP for that...

@blackmagicdesign Any news on this?

For simple in / out animations (even with different positions) the dynamic zoom tool is really great. I use it for every photo. Very easy, no keyframes, with easing options.

Last I tested, even Dynamic Zoom does unexpected things if you combine a fair amount of move/zoom with easing. It seemed to simply be an easier way to use the underlying mechanism and didn't fix the problem.

I don't do moves with ease a lot -- and now I just avoid it and let the un-eased jar slide. The only way to successfully work around it right now is to do a specific keyframe easing in Fusion. (You can also do it wrong in Fusion if you don't use the keyframe editor's curves.)

This is still broken in 17 release.


The whole keyframe system is wonky.
It needs an overhaul.

The whole keyframe system is wonky.
It needs an overhaul.

No, the whole keyframe system is comparable to other software. In some cases easier to use, and in other cases not as convenient. This particular (and common) use case is the major issue and as you note still needs to be fixed.

Absolutely agree.
+1

The whole keyframe system is wonky.
It needs an overhaul.

No, the whole keyframe system is comparable to other software. In some cases easier to use, and in other cases not as convenient. This particular (and common) use case is the major issue and as you note still needs to be fixed.

lol Wha?
Comparable to what? Premiere? Avid? Flame? Nuke? After Effects?

One can't even see a keyframe if they trim a clip shorter if the keyframe is on the last frame. Keyframes aren't dynamic with trimming. Ease/Out? Doesn't work. Only options are Linear and Ease In or Ease Out depending on the order of the keyframe. Can't Copy paste individual keyframes? Or Selecting multiple parameter keyframes and move them? having to go past a frame of the edit to set a keyframe beyond the clip and trim back so as to not have a static frame? Can't adjust the curve on a keyframe? Keyframe graph confined to the zoom of the clip?

Moving keyframes Crashes all the time...
Keyframe button will put a keyframe at a random area on the graph and not at the position of the playbar. then set the parameter to view something else.
Can't even keyframe Text size, tracking or leading? (not text+)
Can't add a global All keyframe in the graph? you have to set the parameter individually for X, Y position, Zoom X Y just to scale and reposition a clip. then, you can't drag snap them in relation to each other cause the graph only shows one parameter at a time.
Adding an ALL Transform keyframe via the Panel tab doesn't actually show up in the graph! you can only see them by selecting each and if one parameter isn't there it doesn't show up at all.
Oh an here's the best one... you can't copy and paste a keyframe.

KeyFraming is the most archaic part of Resolve. Buggy, lack of features and lack of control of the keyframes. Pretty much the worst key-framing implementation out there. And we arn't even talking about Color Dynamic Keyframes. That is even more limiting.
Resolve isn't even close to being a finishing system because of the keyframing system alone.

Fusion is a whole other mess. But at least there is a keyframe graph to manage keyframes.

I had high hopes that when BMD acquired Fusion that the Keyframe system would improve. Bummer.

The whole keyframe system is wonky.
It needs an overhaul.

No, the whole keyframe system is comparable to other software. In some cases easier to use, and in other cases not as convenient. This particular (and common) use case is the major issue and as you note still needs to be fixed.

Wait??? For one thing Premiere makes it much better and I'm not at fan of PP at all. But you can set up a move on a photo, let's say with zoom and position, just 2 KF, and click on them and say ease in and or out. and it's simple. nice smooth move. In Resolve and it is not ease to get there. sometimes the same move go wonkey. Anyhoo, yes is Fusion you can do it. But it should be simple for simple moves in main Resolve Edit page.

The whole keyframe system is wonky.
It needs an overhaul.

No, the whole keyframe system is comparable to other software. In some cases easier to use, and in other cases not as convenient. This particular (and common) use case is the major issue and as you note still needs to be fixed.

Wait??? For one thing Premiere makes it much better and I'm not at fan of PP at all. But you can set up a move on a photo, let's say with zoom and position, just 2 KF, and click on them and say ease in and or out.

The keyframe system in Resolve works the same: click on the diamonds to set keyframes at both ends. Right-click on them to set ease. The keyframe system works as well as Premiere.

BUT there's a long-lived bug when you use move/zoom in certain combinations with ease that causes it to not work. This is a problem with how BMD is calculating move/zoom, not with creating or manipulating keyframes. At least as far as I can tell.

Our resident curmudgeon, above, is saying "the whole keyframe system is wonky" which is simply not true. There is one (serious) bug with eased motion/zoom, but the way you set up and manipulate keyframes and the way they work in 99% of parameters is fine. It's not the whole system.

Keyframes aren't dynamic with trimming.

They wouldn't be very useful as keyframes if they did.

Only options are Linear and Ease In or Ease Out depending on the order of the keyframe.

viewtopic.php?f=33&t=130880

There is one (serious) bug with eased motion/zoom, but...It's not the whole system.

I would agree.

Our resident curmudgeon, above, is saying "the whole keyframe system is wonky" which is simply not true. There is one (serious) bug with eased motion/zoom, but the way you set up and manipulate keyframes and the way they work in 99% of parameters is fine. It's not the whole system.

One of the big reasons the keyframe system is perceived as "wonky", at least in the Edit page, is that when you open up the curve editor below the clip on the timeline it's basically unusable for several parameters such as X/Y position. The designers set a vertical scale to accommodate the maximum possible values of X and Y, which makes it impossible to adjust the ease handles horizontally without accidentally making tiny vertical movements that translate to gross excursions of the image. The graph desperately needs to have a scalable vertical axis for all of the parameters, not just a few of them.

The whole keyframe system is wonky.
It needs an overhaul.

No, the whole keyframe system is comparable to other software. In some cases easier to use, and in other cases not as convenient. This particular (and common) use case is the major issue and as you note still needs to be fixed.

The keyframe system in Resolve works the same: click on the diamonds to set keyframes at both ends. Right-click on them to set ease. The keyframe system works as well as Premiere.

BUT there's a long-lived bug when you use move/zoom in certain combinations with ease that causes it to not work. This is a problem with how BMD is calculating move/zoom, not with creating or manipulating keyframes. At least as far as I can tell.

Our resident curmudgeon, above, is saying "the whole keyframe system is wonky" which is simply not true. There is one (serious) bug with eased motion/zoom, but the way you set up and manipulate keyframes and the way they work in 99% of parameters is fine. It's not the whole system.

"curmudgeon"? Insults? Yeah, go....


enjoy your keyframing. It ain't good. It's buggy and old.


So you say its not true that it is wonky, but then state there is a "long-lived bug" that prevents one from performing common keyframing tasks?

Can you copy and paste a single keyframe in the edit page graph? wonk

Can you copy and paste multiple keyframes (but not all) in the edit page graph? wonk

Can you add easy ease? wonk

Can you add a Static/Hold Keyframes? wonk,big WONK

Can you adjust the curve of the keyframe? WONK

Can you move the Scale and Position keyframes in unison? WONK
Can you move the x and y Position keyframes in unison? WONK

Can you add X and Y keyframes in the graph at the same time? WONK

Can you add all keyframes in the graph at once? WONK

If you add a position keyframe then select the x keyframe position to add the x to the t/c that the y is, can you? or does "Position Y' all of a sudden show. preventing you from moving x only. WONK

When you have multiple keyframes and you want to move the values of X and y position to the opacity keyframes. when you select Position X, and hit the next keyframe button. how do you know its the Opacity keyframe? its hidden. WONK

Can you reverse the keyframe animation? WONK

Can you move one keyframe past another? WONK

Can you shift slide a keyframe without moving the parameter up or down? Just move it? WONK

When you first expand the graph and there is a button to add a keyframe. What happens? WONKITUDE.

Wonkity-wonk, WONK keyframing system.

a zoom and also changing position. Sorry since every software I use calls it a little different I just averaged the terms. In Premiere Pro and can do the same push in a repo on a photo and then click the KF and choose ease in/out and it does a great ease in and ease out. In Resolve many/most of the time it swings the image way off the path.

I have actually found a tedious and not super-fast workaround that has the advantage that you can do it entirely in Edit.

First, do what should work in Edit. (I'd recommend not placing your first keyframe on the first frame of the clip. Sometimes this keyframe doesn't display in what follows. It's a bug.) So you create a keyframe at the start of the move: one for Zoom X/Y and one for Transform X/Y. Then create corresponding keyframes at the end of the move. Right click on the red diamonds to add Ease Out and Ease In, as appropriate.

This doesn't result in the insane -- thousands of pixels offscreen -- bug that I reported to BMD during beta 17. But you do get undershoot and overshoot near 1/3 and 2/3 of the way through the move. If I go from a full-frame image to a zoomed 1.5x and move to, say, the upper left corner, I'll see a black border on top and left grow to max at the 1/3 point, then an overshoot occur where the image hangs over the edge which grows to a max 2/3 of the way through. (My intention is that the upper left corner is anchored to the upper left if the viewer.)

So, the video part of the clip, in the Video track has two icons on the right: a curves animation and a keyframe. If you click the curves animation, the animation curves drop down below the thumbnails as a part of the video track. Zoom horizontally until your start keyframe and end keyframe are at the ends of the visible part of the timeline, to give yourself some room.

There's a triangle at the upper left of the curves area and you can pull it down and select Zoom X (or Zoom Y, they're linked). Now if you click on the start keyframe, you'll see a handle. If you scrub with the playhead around the 1/3 point between start and end you will hit the maximum black border. Park the playhead there and move the handle on the start until there's no black showing in the clip. (You'll want to move it left and up, basically.)

Do the opposite for the end keyframe and near the 2/3 point. It helps to turn on the Transform Viewer mode so you see the white box around the clip's boundaries to make it easier to see the overhand. Again, adjust the handle on the end keyframe, this time basically moving it down and to the right until there's no overhang.

It probably takes 30 seconds (maybe less) to do this, but at least it's all in Edit. The bottom line is that when BMD calculates the handles for Ease, they're not accounting for both Scale and Transform to interact with each other. They calculate the (default) eases separately. But the Zoom is moving pixels on the screen and so is the Transform and they can be moving individual pixels in opposite directions at various points. With Linear animation, things cancel out and you get reasonable movement. With Eases, though, they interact in odd ways and you get a rubber-band-like movement. By adjusting the Zoom's eases by hand, you can compensate.

You shouldn't have to. BMD should recalculate eases when both Zoom and Transform are used together. But this might be a helpful technique, especially in a one-off situation.

The keyframe system in Resolve works the same: click on the diamonds to set keyframes at both ends. Right-click on them to set ease. The keyframe system works as well as Premiere.

No, it's really not the same as in Premiere. Not even close. Reading this thread I had to compare it.

Resolve is a little better than FCP as you have a handle with which you can change the easing curve. In theory. In practice the handle almost has no leeway so it's pretty useless. As a motion designer I have to say the easing curves it creates are boring.

FCP only has one default easing curve (other than linear, that is). But it looks a little better out of the box compared to Resolve.

I almost never use Premiere (only have CC for After Effects), but it has a speed editor, for easing curves, similar to the one in After Effects. This is awesome. I wasn't even aware of this. Too bad I don't like PP much. But this is pretty much the only keyframe editor out of the three that deserves the name.

Regarding Resolve: I don't care if you call it "broken" or "old" or whatever. It's rather useless for creating good looking curves in my opinion.

Can you add easy ease? wonk

Can you adjust the curve of the keyframe? WONK

Can you add a Static/Hold Keyframes? wonk,big WONK

Can you move the x and y Position keyframes in unison? WONK

Can you add X and Y keyframes in the graph at the same time? WONK

Can you shift slide a keyframe without moving the parameter up or down? Just move it? WONK

Yes, you can ease both in and out. Yes, you can adjust curves. Yes you can hold values (don't follow them with other keyframes or use two following keyframes.) I don't think moving X and Y position in unison does what you think it does. You can add X and Y keyframes at the same time: click in the Inspector. You can move a keyframe without modifying the values, there are two curves. (You can't move handles in only one axis, which you should be able to do with something like Shift.)

Granted, they should update their animation curves. Definitely not as polished as other aspects of the program. I don't like how they work overall, but they do work. And combined with the other three or four ways you can drive parameters, it's a pretty amazing system. (Again, given that there is a definite Ease bug/interaction that they should fix. Not sure why it's not fixed already.)

Can you add easy ease? wonk

Can you adjust the curve of the keyframe? WONK

Can you add a Static/Hold Keyframes? wonk,big WONK

Can you move the x and y Position keyframes in unison? WONK

Can you add X and Y keyframes in the graph at the same time? WONK

Can you shift slide a keyframe without moving the parameter up or down? Just move it? WONK

Yes, you can ease both in and out. Yes, you can adjust curves. Yes you can hold values (don't follow them with other keyframes or use two following keyframes.) I don't think moving X and Y position in unison does what you think it does. You can add X and Y keyframes at the same time: click in the Inspector. You can move a keyframe without modifying the values, there are two curves. (You can't move handles in only one axis, which you should be able to do with something like Shift.)

Granted, they should update their animation curves. Definitely not as polished as other aspects of the program. I don't like how they work overall, but they do work. And combined with the other three or four ways you can drive parameters, it's a pretty amazing system. (Again, given that there is a definite Ease bug/interaction that they should fix. Not sure why it's not fixed already.)

It's not about being polished. Only Color really could be considered that. The keyframing in DR is buggy, unintuitive, incomplete and a flawed implementation. Anyone who understands what Advanced Keyframing is knows this.

And I thought all my problems with keyframing and easing were down to operator error - me...!!

But I can create keyframes and easing in seconds in Quantel qEdit; in After Effects; in Premiere.

Come on BMD - fingers out time.

A few versions back I needed high quality moves on Stills and did them in After Effects and thought the quality of the images were better, as well as the ease in/out. I'd love to see this improved as well as allow individual kerning of text the way Adobe does it.

Yeah the ease in and out is terrible in Resolve, which sucks since the project I'm working on now is filled with zoom ins / position changes into images but it's a nightmare to make it look nice in here, had to go back to premiere for this project which is painful for other reasons.

Fusion works well for that , Dave.

Might be worth learning if you do this a lot.

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... e/training

Fusion works well for that , Dave.

Might be worth learning if you do this a lot.

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... e/training

Yeah I'll move on to that thanks! Definitely worth it it just sucks since it would be so much quicker to just do in the edit tab, I do like Fusion but it adds a lot of unnecessary steps for what could be really simple things (like shapes)

Yup.

if there was a way to see the tracks below in fusion, it would be much more helpful to do it in Fusion.

right now, if you have a graphic for example, and you want to animate it with a nice curve over footage, you need to bring in the background into the fusion comp to see the timing agains the footage.

currently, it just brings in the clip. no relation to the background layers.

The unexpected result of combining zoom animation with position animation isn’t a bug, it’s the result of combining a linear pixel movement operation with an inverse square pixel movement operation, similar to the way gimbal lock isn’t a “bug” when it comes to 3D rotations, but a consequence of the underlying math. And just like quaternion rotation is an alternative/complementary way to rotate 3D objects, other options exist for combining scale movements with position ones. But since it’s easy to nest one type of movement inside a compound clip to control the order of execution, BMD probably don’t feel like they need to clutter the interface with a toggle... although, compound clips do present their own problems.


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if you have a graphic for example, and you want to animate it with a nice curve over footage

Then you start by moving into Fusion with the playhead over the clip. You then add the graphic from the Media Pool and do the work.

Just leaving a note here hoping the BMD team will fix this since it's an often-used used tool to eas in and out position keyframes.

I use it every day and many, many youtubers are using ease-in/out zooms nowadays. This is a must. I was hoping v17.2 improved it (in its changelog says "Improved curves range display for position and zoom on the edit timeline") but it didn't.

As Jason stated, the biggest issue is that Position / Zoom are interpolated independently (they are just a numeric parameter iike any other) and this creates undesired effects.

Also AFAICT for "Position" you only have "Ease In/Out" and not "Ease In" / "Ease Out" independently ?

What I'd like is to have the same algo as is used for the "Dynamic Zoom" being selectable to interpolate with easing between two transforms.

As Jason stated, the biggest issue is that Position / Zoom are interpolated independently (they are just a numeric parameter iike any other) and this creates undesired effects.

Also AFAICT for "Position" you only have "Ease In/Out" and not "Ease In" / "Ease Out" independently ?

What I'd like is to have the same algo as is used for the "Dynamic Zoom" being selectable to interpolate with easing between two transforms.

Even with non-independent ease in/out, a very easy solution would be, once keyframes view is enabled, selecting more than one keyframe, right click and adding the ease with the same amount of curve in every parameter. Like here:



As simple as adding an "ease in/out" option with the same amount of curve in every parameter (you can currently do it independently but, if you do it in more than one value, it adds like a curve in the movement). Fusion does it like a charm, just a matter of copying and pasting the code.

for "Position" you only have "Ease In/Out" and not "Ease In" / "Ease Out" independently ?

https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=130880

Please BMD please :'(

As someone who does a lot of keyframing for slight adjustments in action scenes, this is a mindbending problem for me.

It's like the last piece of the puzzle for Resolve. Everything is so smooth with the single exception of keyframing. Fusion incorporation is great. Sound is great. Color is brilliant.

Think I will probably just use PP/AE for everything up to color because of this difficulty.

As someone who does a lot of keyframing for slight adjustments in action scenes, this is a mindbending problem for me.

It's like the last piece of the puzzle for Resolve. Everything is so smooth with the single exception of keyframing. Fusion incorporation is great. Sound is great. Color is brilliant.

Think I will probably just use PP/AE for everything up to color because of this difficulty.

Yeah and it's a pain dragging in an almost full project to a different editing software when it should work in here

It's much easier to do the motion in Fusion than moving to different software, Dave.

Though I agree getting it to work on Edit is still much needed.

It's much easier to do the motion in Fusion than moving to different software, Dave.

Though I agree getting it to work on Edit is still much needed.

Fusion keyframes have a tendency to crash on me, so moving to after effects is my only solution

That's not normal. If you start a thread for that, maybe we can help?

That's not normal. If you start a thread for that, maybe we can help?

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=146496

Yeah this seems to be my main issue thanks! Maybe more people have it I'm guessing it's not something a lot of people use constantly

I purchased Resolve Studio 15 to have a decent keyframing options in the Edit page...probably in version 20.0
At the moment I'm stuck with Premiere Pro.
For example non all OFX parameters are exposed to be controlled by curves or keyframes.
Try to decelerate a lens flare motion for example...

regards