Blackmagic Forum

Hi guys,

I posted here last week about a project I started where the contents weren't saved.

I thought I had narrowed this down to being a problem with the Media Sync file when creating a multi-cam sync, using the Sync Bin on the Cut tab. However if I create a multi-cam sync in any way which is possible, the outcome is the same - I save the project, close it and when I re-open it, any timelines I have created are not there.

What is causing this problem? I highly doubt that the feature is actually broken? This happens with every project I create so it's nothing specific to that.

Is my installation broken?

Is there a file buried somewhere that the application references which is corrupt?

I have already re-installed it this morning and have trawled the internet, looking for a solution. I've lost 3 hours of editing time, so far, and this is beginning to become a point of such intense frustration that I'm considering ditching Resolve in favour of Final Cut Pro.

Can anyone PLEASE shed any light on this for me? Is it a bug in 16.2.7 and should I be considering upgrading to 17, even though it's still in the Beta phase?

TIA,
Lewis

I have since performed a complete re-installation of the application, removing all the data from every area of my HD that I can think of.

Unfortunately, it's still doing the same thing. Although I've created multi-cam syncs and the "Media Sync" files are still available in the bin while on the Edit tab, if I import them into a timeline and close the project, when I re-open it, they are not there.

Is anyone able to help me figure out why it's doing this? At first I thought it was user error but having wasted 3 hours at this, so far today, I'm beginning to think it's something else...

I have also upgraded to version 17 - same problem.

"Open in Timeline"

So if your multicam clip is in the bin, either double click on it to open it in the timeline or right click and choose open in timeline. Also not sure about "importing" into a timeline, just drag and drop it onto any timeline you select from the output window dropdown on the edit page. So you have to have either already created a timeline or create a timeline with multicam clip.

Tom Roper wrote:"Open in Timeline"

So if your multicam clip is in the bin, either double click on it to open it in the timeline or right click and choose open in timeline. Also not sure about "importing" into a timeline, just drag and drop it onto any timeline you select from the output window dropdown on the edit page. So you have to have either already created a timeline or create a timeline with multicam clip.

Hi Tom,

This isn't the problem - I know how to get the synced clips into the timeline. The problem is when the edits are done and the project is saved, if I close it - the edits disappear.

It doesn't matter if I create a sync from the sync bin, or if I create a multi-cam clip - the outcome is the same. I cannot edit the project and save it without the entire timeline disappearing from it.

Is that clearer?

Thanks,
Lewis

You're working exclusively from internal hard drives?

You have Live Save turned on in Preferences?

Jim Simon wrote:You're working exclusively from internal hard drives?

You have Live Save turned on in Preferences?

Yes, live save and auto back-up are both enabled on my Mac.

If I sync the clips manually and edit them, the edits are still there if I close/re-open the project - saving them is not the issue.

OK, at this point I'm thinking Operator Error.

Have you completed any of the training manuals for Resolve offered below?

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... e/training

Jim Simon wrote:OK, at this point I'm thinking Operator Error.

Have you completed any of the training manuals for Resolve offered below?

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... e/training

How can it be operator error? I sync the clips manually, add them to a timeline and save it and they're still there waiting for me the next time I open the project - I get Resolve to do the syncing, add them to the timeline (using the Media Sync clips which are created) and if I close the project, the timeline disappears entirely?

To my knowledge, I am doing nothing differently here, other than trying to add in an additional step prior to making any cuts to the clips.

It can be operator error if you're doing things incorrectly, or expecting a certain result when you shouldn't be.

That's why I asked about the training. Doing that gives you the foundation of how things operate in Resolve.

Jim Simon wrote:It can be operator error if you're doing things incorrectly, or expecting a certain result when you shouldn't be.

That's why I asked about the training. Doing that gives you the foundation of how things operate in Resolve.

While I see your point, I don't think I'm doing something and expecting the wrong result if I"m saving a project I"ve edited and still expecting the edits to be there when I go back to it again..

Well, as I'm not physically seeing what you're doing, that's what the question was designed to help determine.

Have you gone through the Beginner's Guide yet?

If not, then my best advice would be to pause on all projects and get that done.

Jim Simon wrote:Well, as I'm not physically seeing what you're doing, that's what the question was designed to help determine.

Have you gone through the Beginner's Guide yet?

If not, then my best advice would be to pause on all projects and get that done.

Not really an option for me as I work full-time and have to have this uploaded by Wednesday night..

Like I said, irrespective of whether or not I've completed a training module - if I do edits and save the timeline, it should still be there after I save and close the project, and I've gotten to where I am by following tutorials elsewhere...

Lewis, if you save the project, the edits should be saved. Are the timelines disappeared from the media bin(s) on the media page? Timelines can hide among the other media but helps finding them to sort by last modified, and the most recent saved will appear near the top, including the timelines. And if the timelines are in the media page bin, you should be able to open them from the edit page. I am vaguely thinking I saw something like this similar, and the answer was to put *all* the clips, multicam clips, timelines and media files into the same main (default) bin together; that when I had tried to organize them by sorting them into separate bins is when my problems began.

Tom Roper wrote:Lewis, if you save the project, the edits should be saved. Are the timelines disappeared from the media bin(s) on the media page? Timelines can hide among the other media but helps finding them to sort by last modified, and the most recent saved will appear near the top, including the timelines. And if the timelines are in the media page bin, you should be able to open them from the edit page. I am vaguely thinking I saw something like this similar, and the answer was to put *all* the clips, multicam clips, timelines and media files into the same main (default) bin together; that when I had tried to organize them by sorting them into separate bins is when my problems began.

The timelines are disappearing - you know from the second the project manager opens, as there’s a 0 listed under that column before you open the project. There’s definitely nothing there, the only thing you have is the Media Sync files that are created after the sync is carried out.

I don’t tend to create bins because there are only 2/3 clips I need to work with, potentially other smaller ones which are recorded as I’m editing - but this is very rare. For the most part, everything is in the default/uppermost container within Resolve before I start dragging things down to the timeline to start cutting the footage.

Have you added your source files into the media bin?

Okay, I see what you mean about “0” timelines in project manager columns. Your source files are in the media bin named “Master?”

Edit: Never mind, I see you can’t create a timeline unless they been added to media the pool already.

I can't see why a timeline would not be saved unless, and here's my hail Mary, you are not using the paid version of Resolve Studio.

If there are some simple test steps you want me to try and duplicate, let me know.

Tom Roper wrote:I can't see why a timeline would not be saved unless, and here's my hail Mary, you are not using the paid version of Resolve Studio.

If there are some simple test steps you want me to try and duplicate, let me know.

Hi Tom,

I would hope that's not the case!

I've attached some screenshots for you - the behaviour has changed slightly, I can only assume because I upgraded to 17 yesterday to see if it was an application specific issue with 16.2.7, which it has turned out not to be...

The screenshots are attached in order, however here are the steps I took:

- Started Resolve - note the lack of timelines in the project manager
- Opened the project, note the media sync files which were created when the clips were synced in the sync bin
- Dragged one of them to the timeline

- Saved the project and closed Resolve
- Re-opened resolve; Project Manager still lists a timeline however when I open it, the video I imported into the timeline is not there

For simplicity, here's a breakdown of what I do and how I'm trying to use the software:

- I film YouTube gaming content and have two files I need to work with; a face-cam recording from my iPhone which I import to my Mac manually plus an OBS screen-recording which also incorporates audio from my USB microphone (I do it this way as it's the easiest way, I have found, to align the face-cam and higher-quality audio with the screen recording, so the commentary fits
- I want to sync the face-cam with the screen recording (which works, perfectly) and then create a two-track timeline with the screen recording as track one so I can then overlay the face-cam and reduce it to a PIP overlay which is moved into a corner/edited as needed

This process works perfectly when I do things manually however the problem I have is that despite my best efforts, the audio always goes out of sync with the face-cam by the end of the video and I end up having to work backwards through hundreds of clips to make sure they're correct. This is a process that I'd rather avoid as it's going to reduce my upload schedule overall, rather than allowing me to increase it, if this continues.

I don't think I'm doing anything overly complicated here? I am self-taught and graduated onto software of this complexity a little earlier than I had planned but I'd hardly class myself as a "beginner".

Okay, that is helpful. To recap, the project manager lists a timeline but appears to not have any media. Additionally, the media that you had dropped onto that timeline was not even a sync file but is rather just an ordinary video file in a MOV container.

Let's try a few steps.

At the far left edge of your toolbar (pictured), an icon. Hover over it, it's called Timeline View Options. Click on it to open. The first icon at the top left of the sub-menu (hover over it) is called Stacked Timelines. Click on this so that it becomes highlighted. Another bar of tabs will appear immediately underneath the toolbar listing your timelines and sync files or multicam files. This is so that you can conveniently tab between timelines and sync files. It may be that nothing shows up here, and that's what we are interested in finding out.

Then we want to answer this question: Is there *any* media file that will be saved on a timeline for *this* project? If the answer is no, then we want to open a new project and retry. If the answer is yes, the problem could be an incompatibility of the particular iphone file. So is the problem specific to the project or the media file?

There is something else I just noticed. The timecodes are different by 1 hour on the before and after screenshots. Could it be that your media is there, but off the edge of the paper (so to speak)? Zoom or scroll the timeline to 01:00:00;00.

I am also wondering if the first screenshot is of an "open in timeline" sync file, that after saving that one gets closed. When the project is again opened, it defaults to the regular timeline mode, thus hiding your sync file. I would think you would be able to see whether your media/sync file still exists or not from a clip on the color page. On the color page, make sure the tab for "clips" is highlighted so that you can see them. On the edit page, also stacked timelines from the timeline view options icon as described in previous post.

This isn't the project timeline, see the camera track labels, it's the multicam timeline. Files are being added to the wrong timeline. Have you tried simply adding tracks to a the project timeline and saving? Have you tried re-opening the multicam sequences to see if the changes were maintained after a save?

Good Luck

Tom Roper wrote:There is something else I just noticed. The timecodes are different by 1 hour on the before and after screenshots. Could it be that your media is there, but off the edge of the paper (so to speak)? Zoom or scroll the timeline to 01:00:00;00.

I am also wondering if the first screenshot is of an "open in timeline" sync file, that after saving that one gets closed. When the project is again opened, it defaults to the regular timeline mode, thus hiding your sync file. I would think you would be able to see whether your media/sync file still exists or not from a clip on the color page. On the color page, make sure the tab for "clips" is highlighted so that you can see them. On the edit page, also stacked timelines from the timeline view options icon as described in previous post.

So I think both yourself and Howard are correct - this may have came from an incorrect assumption on my part (which I am big enough to admit, I hasten to add!).

I created a timeline using the "Create timeline with selected clips" option, saved the project then re-opened it. Voila, edits are still there.

Tried it a second time, with the other media sync file, same again - still there.

Apparently, it was not clear how this was working from the YouTube tutorial(s) that I watched (in copious amounts) before trying this. When I edit my content, I have two video tracks stacked permanently (both in excess of an hour long, each) and my assumption was that, just like previously when I would manually sync an audio track with a video file, this would work the same way.

Clearly, it doesn't because the software doesn't expect you to want both cameras on screen simultaneously - in whatever arrangement.

What I was intending to happen was that this would create a sync between two video files so I could arrange the iPhone footage (yes, I know better cameras are available - one day!) so it forms a PIP overlay with the matching audio from there and the screen capture ensuring that what's being spoken about is what's happening in the game footage..

I had made the assumption (and I have to blame my ADD for missing the glaringly obvious differences in the naming of the tracks in the Multicam sync timeline) that this would do that for me, or certainly what I watched on YouTube led me to believe that would be the case.

Howard, correct me if I'm wrong but from what you're saying, is it possible to use the way the Multicam sync timeline layers the tracks to cut them down to what I want and then import them to a timeline? Am I correct?

Start by making a multicam file on the Media page using the selected clips then right-click and make a new timeline from the Multicam clip, or drop it into a new Timeline from the Edit Page. Double-click the Multicam clip on the timeline. That should get you out of the woods or at least to a place where the tutorials make more sense.

Good Luck

lth0ms0n wrote:correct me if I'm wrong but from what you're saying, is it possible to use the way the Multicam sync timeline layers the tracks to cut them down to what I want and then import them to a timeline? Am I correct?

You can select/copy/paste your edits from one timeline to any other.

lth0ms0n wrote:What I was intending to happen was that this would create a sync between two video files so I could arrange the iPhone footage (yes, I know better cameras are available - one day!) so it forms a PIP overlay with the matching audio from there and the screen capture ensuring that what's being spoken about is what's happening in the game footage..

This is a very common thing to do.

lth0ms0n wrote:When I edit my content, I have two video tracks stacked permanently (both in excess of an hour long, each) and my assumption was that, just like previously when I would manually sync an audio track with a video file, this would work the same way.

Clearly, it doesn't because the software doesn't expect you to want both cameras on screen simultaneously - in whatever arrangement.

There is no problem doing this. The upper track has priority. You can mute it to play only what's underneath. You can use a composite % to blend the track on top with the one underneath. Or you can make it smaller than the track underneath as you are doing, for PIP.

Tom Roper wrote:

lth0ms0n wrote:When I edit my content, I have two video tracks stacked permanently (both in excess of an hour long, each) and my assumption was that, just like previously when I would manually sync an audio track with a video file, this would work the same way.

Clearly, it doesn't because the software doesn't expect you to want both cameras on screen simultaneously - in whatever arrangement.

There is no problem doing this. The upper track has priority. You can mute it to play only what's underneath. You can use a composite % to blend the track on top with the one underneath. Or you can make it smaller than the track underneath as you are doing, for PIP.

Hey Tom,

So this is what I was doing when I was able to either manually sync the three files together or when I was syncing the separate audio track with the face-cam. What I was hoping that the multi-cam sync would do is enable me to sync the two video files together, because some of the audio will at least be the same.

Which was where I ended up before all my edits supposedly started disappearing!

I now understand that I was editing the multi-cam footage inside the sync file, not on the timeline. What I'm missing, seemingly, is how you go from having a multi-cam sync file and importing that into the timeline in such a way that it's all synced and can be broken up across multiple tracks, the way it would be if you're to modify the editing of it inside the sync file itself.

If I want to achieve what I was previously doing, using multi-cam sync, do I need to do all my cuts inside the sync file itself and then create a timeline with it?

Is that clear?

Lewis

lth0ms0n wrote:I now understand...

And that's why I suggested the Beginner's Guide.

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... e/training

Jim Simon wrote:

lth0ms0n wrote:I now understand...

And that's why I suggested the Beginner's Guide.

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... e/training

Cryptically withholding the answer to the question helps no one...

Yes Lewis, I understand what you are asking and the answer is that you can do it either way. You can do it while the sync file is open and broken up into separate cuts and tracks or you can do it on the timeline except when it's on the timeline it's just a single compound file on a single video and audio track, not what you want. If you edit it, it's a global edit on everything. But what you have been asking for is to see everything broken out into separate tracks and cuts just as it was inside the sync file.

To do that, the answer is to open the sync file and copy everything inside as one big group. Open the sync file so that everything shows. Highlight everything at once, all the tracks, all the clips. Copy them all as one big group, and paste it as one big group into a brand new timeline. Then you will have everything that you saw inside the sync file as it looked there, but transferred, the whole group into a new timeline. Save the project, then it will be there when you open the project again, exactly as you left it. Then you can forget about using the sync file for anything. It is not needed anymore. It finished its job for you when it sync'd the two video clips to the audio. You don't need it for anything else now, except it's a copy of the extra work you put into it with edits, but it's not consuming any significant resources so don't delete it, but just leave it alone and continue working on the new timeline.

Is that making sense?

Tom Roper wrote:Yes Lewis, I understand what you are asking and the answer is that you can do it either way. You can do it while the sync file is open and broken up into separate cuts and tracks or you can do it on the timeline except when it's on the timeline it's just a single compound file on a single video and audio track, not what you want. If you edit it, it's a global edit on everything. But what you have been asking for is to see everything broken out into separate tracks and cuts just as it was inside the sync file.

To do that, the answer is to open the sync file and copy everything inside as one big group. Open the sync file so that everything shows. Highlight everything at once, all the tracks, all the clips. Copy them all as one big group, and paste it as one big group into a brand new timeline. Then you will have everything that you saw inside the sync file as it looked there, but transferred, the whole group into a new timeline. Save the project, then it will be there when you open the project again, exactly as you left it. Then you can forget about using the sync file for anything. It is not needed anymore. It finished its job for you when it sync'd the two video clips to the audio. You don't need it for anything else now, except it's a copy of the extra work you put into it with edits, but it's not consuming any significant resources so don't delete it, but just leave it alone and continue working on the new timeline.

Is that making sense?

Tom, you're a legend:



I did this at lunchtime, with a few quick edits, and can confirm for you that this has done what I set out to achieve!

I can get on with my editing now - it will be a day or so late but I guess being my own boss means there's only one person I have to convince to be OK with it, and I am because I've learned something massive from this experience that I was struggling to get a direct response to from Google..

Thanks again, I think we're good now.

Lewis

Lewis, Yay !!! Good work! Congratulations!!