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Tangent Ripple and the beginning of color grading

PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:32 pm
by Francesco Bollorino
finnaly today my brand new Tangent Ripple is arrived at home.
For 315€ on Amazon I got a brand new tiny device that has opened to me a new world!!!
Color grading now is possible as the mouse was useless and a lot less intuitive to me.
I have a lot to study now but I have understood that this is the door of a new era of learning!!!
Do you agree?

Re: Tangent Ripple and the beginning of color grading

PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:17 pm
by Jim Simon
Haven't had the pleasure of using a panel for grading yet.

Would love to incorporate the Mini Panel at some point.

Re: Tangent Ripple and the beginning of color grading

PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:56 pm
by Francesco Bollorino
Jim Simon wrote:Haven't had the pleasure of using a panel for grading yet.

Would love to incorporate the Mini Panel at some point.

To me it is its intuitive way to work I love now it is possible to learn what the experts say in their tutorials (the problem lays to me in the difficulty to use the mouse to make color grading)
Without it for a novice: NO WAY!!!!

Re: Tangent Ripple and the beginning of color grading

PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 2:41 am
by Marc Wielage
Yes, the Ripple is a good control surface for learning, and it's actually useful.

One of the keys to color-correcting fast is having the ability to turn two knobs at the same time, and you can't do this with a mouse. I frequently will pop Lift (or Mids) down and Highlights up, stretching the signal for the initial correction. I do this in nodes after a preliminary Printer Light adjustment and a Contrast Curve.

Although we have both the Advanced Panel and a Mini Panel, I still keep a Tangent Wave2 in a case on the side of the room, just in case anything fails. Backups are important. And I know people who do on-set dailies with the Ripple, which works fine. Heck, if you had a macro keyboard, you could theoretically do a feature with it.

Re: Tangent Ripple and the beginning of color grading

PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 6:08 am
by Uli Plank
After a while it’ll feel like playing an instrument. And you need to use both hands, since you need to be fast when grading. You only have 15 or 20 seconds until your perception adapts. No time to fiddle with a mouse.

Re: Tangent Ripple and the beginning of color grading

PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:28 am
by Francesco Bollorino
Uli Plank wrote:After a while it’ll feel like playing an instrument. And you need to use both hands, since you need to be fast when grading. You only have 15 or 20 seconds until your perception adapts. No time to fiddle with a mouse.

that's right!!!
I do think that it's the device uber alles for learning how to grade a footage. I do think that the best you can reach is with e two monitors setup in order to see at best the modifications in grading. I have just ordereda second HDR monitor to do this....
PS as the grading section is the really plus of DaVinci over the other NLEs the addon of th Ripple is a must to reach the best from the appe

Re: Tangent Ripple and the beginning of color grading

PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:08 pm
by Ellory Yu
Any possibility that Blackmagic will have a color control panel (for grading) at the Ripple price point that will complement their speed editor (for editing) as a low cost device for the budget conscious?

Re: Tangent Ripple and the beginning of color grading

PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 2:25 pm
by wfolta
Ellory Yu wrote:Any possibility that Blackmagic will have a color control panel (for grading) at the Ripple price point that will complement their speed editor (for editing) as a low cost device for the budget conscious?

It's always possible, but there's not a lot to strip off of the micro panel to make it cheaper. Obviously it's dominated by the trackballs, and then there are some dials. The Speed Editor is cheaper than the full keyboard because most of the keys are gone and the jog dial is not as sophisticated.

Uli Plank wrote:After a while it’ll feel like playing an instrument. And you need to use both hands, since you need to be fast when grading. You only have 15 or 20 seconds until your perception adapts. No time to fiddle with a mouse.


I never thought of this. It really changes what "speed" means: I'd been thinking it was be fast because you might have a lot of clips to grade, and that's still useful but it sounds like the main thing is it lets you get key changes in before you lose your perspective. (I've wondered why the more I fiddle the worse things get sometimes.)

A joke comes to mind that perhaps I should spin around in my chair before each clip to get dizzy and slow my perception down, since all I have is a keyboard and mouse. ;-)

Re: Tangent Ripple and the beginning of color grading

PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 3:09 pm
by Ellory Yu
wfolta wrote:It's always possible, but there's not a lot to strip off of the micro panel to make it cheaper.

I proposed an idea that could (posted here).
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=127340&hilit=speed+control+panel

Keep in mind there are other 3rd parties who have cheaper panels, namely Tangent Ripple ($335), the original LoupeDeck ($299), and a few others. Some will not work with Resolve because BMD has a closed SDK and the Tangent are using coordinate tracking which does work but no assurance that their driver and mapper will work on the next version of Resolve. That's what makes this a monopoly for BMD. But if BMD wants to open the market by opening its SDK or produce a cheaper panel, it wouldn't surprise me if they can make a cheaper panel for a market that may not have in there budget a micro panel.

Re: Tangent Ripple and the beginning of color grading

PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 4:47 pm
by wfolta
Ellory Yu wrote:Keep in mind there are other 3rd parties who have cheaper panels, namely Tangent Ripple ($335), the original LoupeDeck ($299), and a few others. Some will not work with Resolve because BMD has a closed SDK and the Tangent are using coordinate tracking which does work but no assurance that their driver and mapper will work on the next version of Resolve. That's what makes this a monopoly for BMD. But if BMD wants to open the market by opening its SDK or produce a cheaper panel, it wouldn't surprise me if they can make a cheaper panel for a market that may not have in there budget a micro panel.


Some reviews I've read of cheaper models seem to indicate they are cheaper because they have a cheap materials and build quality. My guess is that the Ripple is basically a game controller with a couple of extra trackballs. BMD has certainly broken hardware cost/quality boundaries with things like its Pocket Cameras and ATEM -- and now the Speed Editor -- so maybe they could do a $300-500 super-micro surface. Perhaps similar to what you've proposed.

(On the other hand, some remarks in this thread lead me to believe that there's a minimal number of dials, etc, that you need to actually benefit from a surface since you need to adjust two things at once and there are various combinations of two things that this might be. Many more than just two color wheels at once.)

Your proposal is interesting. It definitely cuts down on dials and buttons, and has clever modes. Not sure if the modes account for what dials you'd want to use simultaneously. If you have to switch modes, you may lose the actual speed/combination advantage of a hardware surface. (I'd never thought of that before this thread. I figured it basically boiled down to using multiple color wheels at once plus lots-o-dials so you can keep your hands on the surface rather than returning to the keyboard. I've now learned that there's much more to it than that.)

In terms of opening up the SDK, I don't see how they could do that. They're primarily a hardware company that's basically giving away the software to build brand loyalty and sell hardware. (Studio purchases bring in some income, but I'm guessing that most of it comes from control surfaces, recorders, and cameras.) So I think it's either going to be BMD or nothing on that front.

(They, of course, can't stop something like a Ripple from pretending to be a keyboard and mouse and sending keyboard/mouse events to Resolve. Or maybe there's a partial SDK that gives some access like trackballs but not the full shebang that BMD products use. I don't know one way or the other.)