Timeline color space crushed blacks & some more questions

Hey guys!

I got a few questions.

Most of my coloring work is delivered for web advertisement film's (on websites and social media) and TV screens played in showrooms/shows or conferences. None is shot beyond 4k and none shot in hdr nor am I requested to deliver in hdr.

I have a benq monitor hardware calibrated to rec709 2.4 on which I set up a dual screen in davinci workspace for a full screen reference. Goes from GPU and not deckling (I've read extensively about the decklink and that's my next purchase probably. However I can't buy for sometime now. I am pretty fine doing it this way since it's not alot different from screens I deliver to)

In project settings I always select davinci yrgb (not color managed) and timeline as rec 709 2.4

However there is this video I am working on. I've already corrected 3 extensive clips in it. On of the dark clips I noticed the parade levels being cut off at some approx 64 or so, a straight cut line. I checked the project settings and somehow I had selected blackmagic film for timeline color space. If I change this to rec 709 2.4, the blacks drop down naturally to 0 however the 3 extensive clips I previously worked on become much more flatter.

Also when the blacks drop down naturally, or being cut of in a straight line when changing timeline color space, I don't see this black information in the reference being crushed and uncrushed. Remains same!

I can redo the 3 clips, but I want to educate myself on what is happening exactly.

From my understanding someone mentioned on this forum that timeline color space doesn't really effect anything except how davinci handles and behaves all the tools. This explains the previously done clips shifting flatter. However then why the straight cut off at about 64 when set timeline color space set to blackmagic film?

What is the ideal timeline color space I should be selecting for my work?

More questions

When correcting a blackmagic raw footage for quick delivery, I put a color space transform fx node from respective blackmagic raw as source to rec 2.4 and put nodes mostly in parallel before this fx node if I want to target specific colors or level changes. Since it looked to my eye as a cleaner output rather than putting corrector nodes after the fx node. Is this an ideal way? Some better suggestions if you pros have please?

Then, for my nature of work, do I have to worry about the 64-940 safe levels? If yes or no, please enlighten me when and how is this supposed to be worried about? As from my understanding this is a historic thing which doesn't have any prominence now.

And lastly the render to video vs full is doing what exactly? I sometimes notice the dark shifts like gamma shift when selecting either. One of which gives me how it looks in resolve. I do a test export and stick to one. But I want to understand what this setting is doing exactly.

About the decklink
As I mentioned I have a benq hardware calibrated monitor and I'd connect this to the decklink when I get one via an hdmi. As I cannot afford a professional reference monitor like Flanders. My work doesn't go beyond 4k at the moment. For this setup (windows) which decklink would you guys suggest? (Cheapest please).

Any other reference monitors or setup I should be looking at? I just see 5000 dollars Flanders etc which is just very outside my financial limits at the moment. Should I invest in any other thing? Whatever suggestions, please help!

Apologise if some questions look stupid. I am learning as much as I can. Reading on the internet and asking questions to professionals seems to be the best way. Any links or references if you don't wanna type out will also help.

Thank you guys! You all are always helpful

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus (XT1804) using Tapatalk

You can make a group of your RAW clips, apply the LUT to the post-group and do per-clip color manipulation in clip mode. This makes sure you don't clip your values before applying the grade while not having to put a LUT or color space conversion FX on every clip.
Colour space conversion may be crushing your blacks. Why don't you just use a LUT? Davinci YRGB 2.4 does nothing to the clips, it shouldn't be the problem.

What is the ideal timeline color space I should be selecting for my work?

Rec 709.png (18.99 KiB) Viewed 3837 times

Change the Input Device Transform to match your camera media. RAW files do not need this set.

You can make a group of your RAW clips, apply the LUT to the post-group and do per-clip color manipulation in clip mode. This makes sure you don't clip your values before applying the grade while not having to put a LUT or color space conversion FX on every clip.
Colour space conversion may be crushing your blacks. Why don't you just use a LUT? Davinci YRGB 2.4 does nothing to the clips, it shouldn't be the problem.

Thank you. That seems a good way. I don't know why I don't use LUTs. Maybe because it seems hard coded. Haha.

But I'll give it a try. Wondering why changing timeline color space from film to rec changes that crushing

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus (XT1804) using Tapatalk

What is the ideal timeline color space I should be selecting for my work?

Rec 709.png

Change the Input Device Transform to match your camera media. RAW files do not need this set.

I am using davinci yrgb. It doesn't have input I believe. Or just set to timeline.

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus (XT1804) using Tapatalk

To get your head around the whole concept of color management in DR, I can highly recommend the new tutorial by Ripple Training. Even if you don't use 17 yet, it helps in understanding the basics.

To get your head around the whole concept of color management in DR, I can highly recommend the new tutorial by Ripple Training. Even if you don't use 17 yet, it helps in understanding the basics.

Can you please point me to the video? Or the title?

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus (XT1804) using Tapatalk

Here you go: https://www.rippletraining.com/products ... esolve-17/

Here you go: https://www.rippletraining.com/products ... esolve-17/

Thank you!

Waiting for others to respond to other queries

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus (XT1804) using Tapatalk

We need more info. What Benq model? What exactly means it was hardware calibrated to Rec709 2.4 i.e. if it's wide gamut, was it calibrated in a Rec709 preset mode to tame the gamut etc. please describe, Probably something like Decklink 4K mini monitor would be quite sufficient. I imagine cashing out for a $5000 cinema grading monitor for web deliveries is beyond the point.

I would also question the 2.4 gamma for web and presentation.

We need more info. What Benq model? What exactly means it was hardware calibrated to Rec709 2.4 i.e. if it's wide gamut, was it calibrated in a Rec709 preset mode to tame the gamut etc. please describe, Probably something like Decklink 4K mini monitor would be quite sufficient. I imagine cashing out for a $5000 cinema grading monitor for web deliveries is beyond the point.

I would also question the 2.4 gamma for web and presentation.

Benq SW2700pt. Yes its a wide gamut and the software calibrates writing LUT to the hardware chip.

This calibration can be stored in a slot on the monitor.

Since resolve doesn't apply any OS color profile to the reference. I found this to be most accurate when comparing to a professional sony reference monitor that I checked in my friends suite.

Ofcourse I did notice some difference if I was staring every pixel. But overall it's very close and negligible. Getting myself a cinema grade reference is really out of my budget.

As for the gamma, the delivery most of the time is something thats played on the web (phone, pc monitor) as well as showroom displays (TV's and projectors mostly and these are dim environments). The same file.

I work in a dim controlled room. So 2.4 works for me as a good medium. Since when I tried 2.2 I wasn't content how it was turning out in the showrooms. Very flat. But what I grade in 2.4 doesn't look as bad if played in a bright room. Yes looks a little more contrasty but not as bad as vice-versa.

Thank you for the decklink suggestion. I guess it would work in my setup?

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus (XT1804) using Tapatalk

We need more info. What Benq model? What exactly means it was hardware calibrated to Rec709 2.4 i.e. if it's wide gamut, was it calibrated in a Rec709 preset mode to tame the gamut etc. please describe, Probably something like Decklink 4K mini monitor would be quite sufficient. I imagine cashing out for a $5000 cinema grading monitor for web deliveries is beyond the point.

I would also question the 2.4 gamma for web and presentation.

Benq SW2700pt. Yes its a wide gamut and the software calibrates writing LUT to the hardware chip.

This calibration can be stored in a slot on the monitor.

Since resolve doesn't apply any OS color profile to the reference. I found this to be most accurate when comparing to a professional sony reference monitor that I checked in my friends suite.

Ofcourse I did notice some difference if I was staring every pixel. But overall it's very close and negligible. Getting myself a cinema grade reference is really out of my budget.

As for the gamma, the delivery most of the time is something thats played on the web (phone, pc monitor) as well as showroom displays (TV's and projectors mostly and these are dim environments). The same file.

I work in a dim controlled room. So 2.4 works for me as a good medium. Since when I tried 2.2 I wasn't content how it was turning out in the showrooms. Very flat. But what I grade in 2.4 doesn't look as bad if played in a bright room. Yes looks a little more contrasty but not as bad as vice-versa.

Thank you for the decklink suggestion. I guess it would work in my setup?

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus (XT1804) using Tapatalk

It's not a Benq, it's the Benq then. It's a "Check" for Benq calibration and gamma 2.4 for your use case.
I can't think of why the Decklink wouldn't work for you, unless, of course, you do more fps than 2160p30, in that case you'd need something pricier.

We need more info. What Benq model? What exactly means it was hardware calibrated to Rec709 2.4 i.e. if it's wide gamut, was it calibrated in a Rec709 preset mode to tame the gamut etc. please describe, Probably something like Decklink 4K mini monitor would be quite sufficient. I imagine cashing out for a $5000 cinema grading monitor for web deliveries is beyond the point.

I would also question the 2.4 gamma for web and presentation.

Benq SW2700pt. Yes its a wide gamut and the software calibrates writing LUT to the hardware chip.

This calibration can be stored in a slot on the monitor.

Since resolve doesn't apply any OS color profile to the reference. I found this to be most accurate when comparing to a professional sony reference monitor that I checked in my friends suite.

Ofcourse I did notice some difference if I was staring every pixel. But overall it's very close and negligible. Getting myself a cinema grade reference is really out of my budget.

As for the gamma, the delivery most of the time is something thats played on the web (phone, pc monitor) as well as showroom displays (TV's and projectors mostly and these are dim environments). The same file.

I work in a dim controlled room. So 2.4 works for me as a good medium. Since when I tried 2.2 I wasn't content how it was turning out in the showrooms. Very flat. But what I grade in 2.4 doesn't look as bad if played in a bright room. Yes looks a little more contrasty but not as bad as vice-versa.

Thank you for the decklink suggestion. I guess it would work in my setup?

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus (XT1804) using Tapatalk

It's not a Benq, it's the Benq then. It's a "Check" for Benq calibration and gamma 2.4 for your use case.
I can't think of why the Decklink wouldn't work for you, unless, of course, you do more fps than 2160p30, in that case you'd need something pricier.

Thank you Mario! That's a breath of fresh air hahaha. We have 40-50% taxes on imported things. A Flanders is really daunting hence. So decklink mini 4k it is then for the next purchase! I don't do beyond 30fps as of now.

If not asking a lot, could you touch on other questions I asked in the first post?

About video and full levels
About 64-940 safe levels
About timeline color space

Thank you so much!

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus (XT1804) using Tapatalk

Normally, a video clip deliverable should be encoded in video levels, meaning there will not be any video information below the value 16 and above the value of 235 for 8 bit video or 64 to 940 for 10 bit . All this is automatic in Resolve unless you have a special case and I don't think you do. So you needn't touch the levels i.e. leave it at auto at the deliver stage
When using a "film" colorspace, cineon log curve is assumed, with the black and white point set to values of 95 and 685 (above is for highlights) for easier conversion to dynamically limited video such as Rec709 - that's probably what was clipping your data when you worked in the "film" color space. You'll have to redo the three clips you already did. Your deliverables are Rec709 for 2.4 displays, that's what you need to stick to if your monitor is thus calibrated (this setting actually does nothing, it's WYSIWYG, except when the deliverable requires a specific color space and gamma like DCI or HDR)...the video level conversion will come automatically at deliver stage.

Normally, a video clip deliverable should be encoded in video levels, meaning there will not be any video information below the value 16 and above the value of 235 for 8 bit video or 64 to 940 for 10 bit . All this is automatic in Resolve unless you have a special case and I don't think you do. So you needn't touch the levels i.e. leave it at auto at the deliver stage
When using a "film" colorspace, cineon log curve is assumed, with the black and white point set to values of 95 and 685 (above is for highlights) for easier conversion to dynamically limited video such as Rec709 - that's probably what was clipping your data when you worked in the "film" color space. You'll have to redo the three clips you already did. Your deliverables are Rec709 for 2.4 displays, that's what you need to stick to if your monitor is thus calibrated (this setting actually does nothing, it's WYSIWYG, except when the deliverable requires a specific color space and gamma like DCI or HDR)...the video level conversion will come automatically at deliver stage.

Thank you for all that information. Much clearer now.

Just to be clear, So I do need to put lower & upper reference limit of 64-940 in parade or waveform for reference while grading so as to avoid any problems during the automatic conversion at delivery to video levels. And not worry if it slightly goes below or above these reference levels. Am I right on this?

If that's correct, suppose if the levels heavily go under and above these reference levels in waveform, say touching 0 and 1023 and majority of levels in 0-64, when I deliver with "auto" which will do the video level conversion, will there be a difference in what I see in resolve and what outputs?

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus (XT1804) using Tapatalk

I am using davinci yrgb.

I was suggesting you change that and use the settings I posted.

I am using davinci yrgb.

I was suggesting you change that and use the settings I posted.

Got it. But I guess non colour managed is fine for me. The crushing blacks were probably happening as I selected bm film and not 709 for output. Not happening now. So I guess that was it

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus (XT1804) using Tapatalk

No, don't limit anything, just use the default Rec709 2.4 timeline and grade using 0-1024, that's all.

No, don't limit anything, just use the default Rec709 2.4 timeline and grade using 0-1024, that's all.

Alright. Thanks a lot!

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus (XT1804) using Tapatalk