Noise Reduction On and Off in one click

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Peter Selbie

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Noise Reduction On and Off in one click

PostThu Feb 04, 2021 2:29 pm

Is there a way to turn noise reduction on and off in one click instead of doing each clip separately
It is a big job to do this separately with a big project !!
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Jim Simon

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Re: Noise Reduction On and Off in one click

PostThu Feb 04, 2021 3:46 pm

Video or Audio NR?
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Peter Selbie

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Re: Noise Reduction On and Off in one click

PostThu Feb 04, 2021 5:07 pm

Jim Simon wrote:Video or Audio NR?


VIDEO NR !!
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Jim Simon

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Re: Noise Reduction On and Off in one click

PostThu Feb 04, 2021 6:16 pm

OK.

Not sure on this one. There are various ways to apply an effect across many clips at once - Adjustment Clips, Groups, Shared Nodes, etc. - and any of them can be disabled/enabled in one step. But I'm not sure how effective NR will be when applied in this manner. You may find you get better results when NR is applied on a per-clip basis, which means the answer to your questions would be - no.
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wfolta

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Re: Noise Reduction On and Off in one click

PostThu Feb 04, 2021 7:10 pm

So your use case is that you have lots of independently-graded clips, some of which have some NR and some of which don't. Like many folks, you turn off the NR because it slows things down, but when you're ready to render you want NR turned on for all of those clips? Is that about right?

The only trick I know is that you can filter your clips (triangle next to the Clips title at the top of the screen) to only show clips that have NR, which shows clips whether the NR is enabled or not. If you always put your NR as the first clip, you can fairly quickly step through NR clips and enable them. One-by-one, granted, but at least you don't have to look at all clips to decide which ones you NR'd.

If you have to NR basically similar clips (a set of shots from the same camera) and so a global NR setting might work across the clips, you could use Groups and put NR in the Pre-Group node tree and then you can turn it on or off -- and adjust -- it for every clip in the Group. This works across an entire project, including different timelines. The downside, of course, is that you have to make Groups -- though if you have good metadata you can do this fairly quickly via filtering -- and you'd have on only one set of NR settings per Group.

I think using Remote Grades could also do something similar, but with less flexibility. A remote grade is tied to the original media clip, so if you have an entire day's shooting from one camera in a single clip, you'd end up NR'ing everything with the same setting which probably would not be what you want to do.

As Jim says, Adjustment clips are an attractive option. (You can enable or disable all of the adjustment clips on a track fairly easily.) The caveat is that they only work with Spatial NR, since an Adjustment clip can only see the current frame while Temporal NR needs to see multiple frames. Or so I have been told.
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ttakala

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Re: Noise Reduction On and Off in one click

PostThu Feb 04, 2021 9:00 pm

There's a feature request for this: viewtopic.php?f=33&t=127443

My workaround is shared nodes: TNR light, TNR medium, TNR heavy, SNR light, ...

Before rendering I go to my "Shared nodes" timeline, which has one clip with all the shared nodes, so I can see them all at a glance, and without messing with the master timeline.
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Marc Wielage

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Re: Noise Reduction On and Off in one click

PostFri Feb 05, 2021 6:24 am

I have an upcoming tutorial on Fixed Node Structures, and part of that mentions the need to just do one single thing in each node, and then have the exact same functions in every shot. And then you bypass the node (or make them an empty node) when you don't need to do anything.

The advantage there is you can bypass just the NR node as a global ripple, which is handy under some circumstances. So if I were the o.p., I would examine your whole color-correction process and look at something very predictable and structured, which would lend itself to doing something like a global bypass when necessary.

You could also do the NR as a group grade, a Timeline grade, or an Adjustment layer, but all of these are potentially problematic. I do a lot of "targeted" NR where I only adjust noisy highlights or noisy shadows (depending on the nature of the project), or even just isolate a noisy blue channel, on a shot-by-shot basis. I'm reluctant to just crank the NR up on every single shot in a timeline.
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Jim Simon

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Re: Noise Reduction On and Off in one click

PostFri Feb 05, 2021 4:37 pm

Marc Wielage wrote:you can bypass just the NR node as a global ripple

That's new information.

Without a panel?
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Re: Noise Reduction On and Off in one click

PostFri Feb 05, 2021 4:55 pm

Jim Simon wrote:
Marc Wielage wrote:you can bypass just the NR node as a global ripple

That's new information.

Without a panel?

I think page 2805 in the v16 manual covers the Ripple command, which goes by node numbers and is accessible without a panel.

Though at least in v17 it doesn't seem to ripple disabling of a node. But maybe I'm just doing it wrong.
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Re: Noise Reduction On and Off in one click

PostFri Feb 05, 2021 5:45 pm

Thanks, Wayne. Cool.
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Re: Noise Reduction On and Off in one click

PostFri Feb 05, 2021 7:56 pm

OK, I figured it out. For every clip you have where you do NR, you always make sure the NR is in Node 1. And you don't do anything in Node 1 that isn't NR-related. (I.e. you might apply NR using power windows or qualifiers etc, but when you go to enable or disable Node 1 you only want to enable and disable NR-related things.)

If not for the Color Clip timeline's filtering, you'd have to put a Node 1 in every single clip that either had NR in it -- if you wanted to do NR -- or just sat there and did nothing. But in fact Color has nice Clip filtering and you can filter its Clip timeline down to clips containing NR. (NR in some node in its tree, but we're going to always put NR into Node 1 because what follows acts upon nodes by number and so will only affect Node 1.)

So when it comes time to turn all NR off, say:

1. Use the triangle next to "Clips" at the top of the screen and select "Noise Reduction". This will only show clips that have NR. The NR could be in any node in the clip's tree but our protocol will be that it must be in Node 1. So every clip you see has a Node 1 that has NR in it.

2. Click on the clip at the left or right end of the Clip timeline. It will then have a red box around it.

3. Go to the other end of the Clip timeline and shift-click on the last clip. All clips will then get red backgrounds.

4. The original clip will still have a red box around it, and the nodes you see in the Nodes area are its nodes. Click on Node 1 and use CMD-D to disable it.

5. Select Color > Ripple Node Changes to Selected Clips. Pow!

You're done. You do the same thing to then enable NR on all clips by toggling Node 1 on.

This is where the vociferously-criticized new node-numbering behavior is very handy. You can go to the beginning of a clip that doesn't have NR, insert a node before the first -- which becomes Node 1 -- and put NR in it. Voila, it will now filter and you can turn it on/off with Ripple. This behavior is now a preference, in response to the criticisms, I believe.

You could use a different node than Node 1, but rippling only occurs between the same-numbered nodes so if you put it in node 20, every clip you intend to affect needs to have at least 20 nodes in it. Plus, it seems to me that NR first is probably the best place for it, though some have said that NR last is sometimes better.

This doesn't require you to have every Node 1 to be the SAME NR settings. I don't think. I think it only ripples things you change once you have everything selected. So you definitely don't want to tweak any actual NR settings between the time you select all of the nodes and when you Ripple, otherwise it will make all of your NR nodes the same in that respect. I think.
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Jeff Brass

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Re: Noise Reduction On and Off in one click

PostFri Feb 05, 2021 8:42 pm

wfolta wrote:
This is where the vociferously-criticized new node-numbering behavior is very handy. You can go to the beginning of a clip that doesn't have NR, insert a node before the first -- which becomes Node 1 -- and put NR in it. Voila, it will now filter and you can turn it on/off with Ripple. This behavior is now a preference, in response to the criticisms, I believe.

.


better yet is to use a fixed node structure. that way ALL /ANY of you nodes can be rippled across other clips. I have a node just for DR NR, another for Neat Video - can use either of them or none buy just turning off the node.
If I want to add the same curve to all of my clips I can ripple that one curve adjustment across all clips by doing in a node set aside just for tweaks like that.

And this is where the changing of node numbers was so disliked, it broke one of the powerful reasons for a fixed node structure.
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wfolta

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Re: Noise Reduction On and Off in one click

PostSat Feb 06, 2021 12:33 am

So how many nodes do you have? You can't protect more than 10 from grade changes, so is it less than 10? But that doesn't seem possible if we're going to reserve multiple nodes for a single effect (NR), we need three nodes to even do Premiere-like basic grading, maybe two nodes for colorspace conversions, and it seems like a node for each favorite OpenFX (I have 13 starred). Then there's five nodes for split RGB work. Not sure if mixers count -- I imagine they do.

Though maybe things work properly if you use multiple tabs per node and if (correction) nodes allow use of tabs plus OpenFX that have been dragged onto them, so you can keep it to a reasonable number?

We don't have to make them all from scratch. It's obviously possible to have multiple versions of incredibly complex node trees in the Gallery, waiting for use in a particular timeline. But it would have to be used for every clip in the timeline that you intend to Color grade, right? No mixing and matching -- could result in very unexpected results. Though I guess we could flag all clips that use a particular node tree template and then never ripple except via Filtered clip timelines? (But then, haven't we sort of just recreated Groups?)

I'm not sure that what I envision as enormous fixed-node-structure grades would help me much with tools like shared nodes, Groups, and maybe remote grades. (Still trying to figure out whether remote grades are actually useful or whether Groups do everything they can do and more -- with perhaps a higher prep time.)
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Jeff Brass

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Re: Noise Reduction On and Off in one click

PostWed Feb 10, 2021 4:18 am

wfolta wrote:... You can't protect more than 10 from grade changes, ...


sorry, not sure what you mean by "can't protect more then 10 nodes..."
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Marc Wielage

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Re: Noise Reduction On and Off in one click

PostWed Feb 10, 2021 8:49 am

Jim Simon wrote:
Marc Wielage wrote:you can bypass just the NR node as a global ripple

That's new information. Without a panel?

Yes, provided you have a fixed node structure and the NR is always in a specific node number. So (for example), you blow out the NR in node #4, then select all the shots after that and choose "Color -> Ripple Node Changes to Selected Clips", and the NR will be turned off. If you're nervous about a destructive global action, copy the timeline first before doing this, and you can reverse it.
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wfolta

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Re: Noise Reduction On and Off in one click

PostWed Feb 10, 2021 1:28 pm

Jeff Brass wrote:
wfolta wrote:... You can't protect more than 10 from grade changes, ...


sorry, not sure what you mean by "can't protect more then 10 nodes..."

Page 2793 of the v16 manual:

Copy Grade: Preserve number of nodes: Lets you choose 0–10 nodes to be protected when applying a grade. When set to 1, the first node of the copied grade is ignored, but all other nodes are copied. When set to 5, the first five nodes of a copied grade are ignored, as long as there are at least five nodes in the grade of the clip you’re copying to. This option is useful for colorists who routinely use the first few nodes for shot matching and scene balancing, with additional nodes applying individual or stylistic adjustments.
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Jeff Brass

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Re: Noise Reduction On and Off in one click

PostWed Feb 10, 2021 8:36 pm

wfolta wrote:Copy Grade: Preserve number of nodes: Lets you choose 0–10 nodes to be protected when applying a grade. When set to 1, the first node of the copied grade is ignored, but all other nodes are copied. When set to 5, the first five nodes of a copied grade are ignored, as long as there are at least five nodes in the grade of the clip you’re copying to. This option is useful for colorists who routinely use the first few nodes for shot matching and scene balancing, with additional nodes applying individual or stylistic adjustments.


ah, I've never used that. have tried it (forgotten about it) but it just doesn't suit me for the most part.

in terms of what the OP was asking about, a fixed node structure and rippling NR nodes on/off works really well.
Like Mark, I often use NR in targeted areas so a shared node or adjustment layer does suit.
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