[Bug] Subclips still don't work with proxy media

PROBLEM

Subclips do not work correctly when working with proxy media in Resolve 17.1.

• When "Use Proxy Media if Available" is enabled, subclip video starts from the first frame of the original clip (audio is fine).
• When "Use Proxy Media" is disabled, subclips behave properly and begin at the correct location.
• You can test this by selecting a subclip and enabling/disabling "Use Proxy Media if Available".

CONTEXT

I use subclips to break up hour long HD video into something manageable.  When creating a subclip and using proxy media, the subclip will always start from the beginning of the original clip.  Unchecking Playback -> Use Proxy Media if Available fixes the problem and starts the video from the correct frame.  However, this causes my program to stutter as I'm no longer using proxies.

My Computer

• Ryzen 9 5900X
• NVidia 1070 TI GPU
• 64GB Ram
• Windows 10
• DaVinci Resolve Studio 17.1  Build 24
• NVME Drives

Does anyone have a workaround?  Has Blackmagic addressed this in any way?
I have read the following post and think that my issue may be similar to this one.

As an aside, I had thought that I would be able to scrub without stutter on a Ryzen 5900X on 5K video but it is still pretty choppy.  Is this a graphics card thing?  Am I crippled with a 1070 TI?  

I'm finding too many gotchas with the proxy workflow.
It wasn't ready to release, IMO.

subscribing....

I'm glad I'm not the only one (sorry). I can't even get the proxies to generate correctly through Resolve and have to do them on my own using FFmpeg (which is still pretty easy). I'm not sure how we are supposed to go about working with 5K or even 8K files that are an hour to two hours long without using proxies and subclips.

After installing Resolve Studio version 17.2 I can confirm that this is still a problem.

Subclips still start at the beginning of the source clip when using proxies.

To recreate:

• create a subclip,
• generate a proxy (I do this manually. Resolve crashes when I try to use proxies on HEVC)
• make sure Playback -> "Use Proxy Media if Available" is enabled
• play the subclip.

Instead of playing from the correct spot, the subclip will always start at the very beginning of the source clip (at 0 seconds).

This is frustrating.

My current workaround when dealing with lots of heavily compressed x265/HEVC 5K videos is:

• Manually generate proxy files
• Actually relink the original files with the proxies
• Create subclips and finish the timeline
• Re-link the proxy files with the originals before rendering.

This is incredibly painful and has been a bug forever. Does anyone else have a better workaround? Is anyone at Blackmagic listening?

The issue is still present in 17.2.1 which makes using Subclips in a proxy workflow unusable.

I'm currently working on a project with 20TB+ of footage and need to edit in the field using proxies. Manually regenerating proxies for the subclips results in proxies with empty audio tracks.

Until someone from BM steps in, does anyone have a usable workaround for this?

Did you try to transcode with Media Management to generate proxies?

Hey Uli!

Here's my process, all on the Media Page:
1. Create subclip using IN/OUT points on a file I'll call MAINCLIP.BRAW
2. Results a subclip named MAINCLIP.BRAW Subclip - if proxies are enabled, the IN point for the proxy is at frame 1 of MAINCLIP.BRAW, therefore the Proxy of the main file doesn't work on the Subclip which is not ideal, but probably expected behavior
3. I right click on MAINCLIP.BRAW Subclip -> Generate Proxy Media
4. Now I do have a new proxy file for the MAINCLIP.BRAW Subclip, but the audio track is silent. I know that it's silent because I reimported the standalone proxy file onto an empty timeline and the waveform is a straight line. Also, it doesn't play the audio in Quicktime or in other players in the OS.

I tried this process with multiple codecs, including DNxHR and Prores 422, so I don't think it's a codec issue.

What do you think?

I suggested Media Management as a workaround, not as a fix.

I suggested Media Management as a workaround, not as a fix.

Of course, but did you mean something different than the process that I described?

Oh, you mean to transcode all the clips into lower quality versions, to bypass the proxy workflow altogether, then reconform, right?

I think this process would take a very long time considering the amount of footage we have...

It’s not slower. Why should it be for the same resolution and codec?
Reconform is very fast if you take good care of naming and folder structure.

You're right, it does make sense to transcode using Media Management when you want to have a faster/smaller/etc. version of the clips for editing and other departments. And you can definitely keep the folder structure and timecode references for automatically reconforming later.

But, given that there are multiple persons working on the same project at once (resolve collaboration mode enabled, everything is done in Resolve, on the same database) - some edit, some color, some work on audio etc., the lower quality versions of the clips will be propagated to all the machines, right?

So I feel that the proxy workflow is really the only option in this case, unless I'm missing something. Am I?

Thanks for your thoughts BTW!

Why should Media Management transcodes be worse than the same settings for proxies?

Why should Media Management transcodes be worse than the same settings for proxies?

I didn't say they're worst it's just that some people in the team need to work on the original files, while others edit on the proxies, at the same time from different machines.

If you don't implement the proxy workflow and you conform the clips in the project to the transcoded files, everyone in the resolve project is stuck on working with the transcoded files. Or what am I missing?

Are you in one location with a fast LAN or do you communicate via the internet?

Are you in one location with a fast LAN or do you communicate via the internet?

Mainly, all machines are on a 10Gbe network, the original files and the resolve project are stored on a NAS, and all machines have their own SSDs with the proxy files which are kept in sync. This way, we can easily export the project and take a laptop with us in the field for offline work, while still benefiting from the proxies.

But I think I now understand what you mean!

Basically, you say we should transcode the subclips using the Media Management (instead of using the Generate proxies function) and then link those transcoded files as proxies (instead of using the transcoded files classically as conformed clips), correct?

Exactly! Since subclips seem to work well with Media Management (at least in my experience).
BTW, depending on your orignals, you may not need proxies if the laptop is an M1

Exactly! Since subclips seem to work well with Media Management (at least in my experience).

Alright!! Yes, this works well, except for one issue (bug?): if you have 2 subclips from the same original clip, Resolve decides to transcode one single non-trimmed clip, instead of transcoding the 2 trimmed subclips...

BTW, depending on your orignals, you may not need proxies if the laptop is an M1

The M1 is amazing, yes... We have both a Macbook Air and a Macbook Pro and we're playing 6K and 4.6K BRAW footage in real time on 1080p timelines, even when we add color correction nodes and grain. The only issue is that 20+TB of data is too much to carry with us all the time, and that's why we need the smaller proxies.

Are those proxies overlapping? If not, I think there’s a setting for that in MM.
I’ll need to check, not at my machine ATM.

The subclips are not overlapping.

Here's a screenshot with my settings:

Screenshot 2021-06-03 at 11.22.05.png (422.68 KiB) Viewed 5359 times

Crap, you're right! I don't know when they broke it, but it's broken!
I also get only the second subclip out of a long original.

But you can just make a raw cut without defining subclips now and transcode the timeline with these settings and you'll get the correct sound for those parts too. You can add handles, of course:

Screen Shot 2021-06-03 at 20.46.23.png (49.17 KiB) Viewed 5338 times

The problem is naming them now…

Thanks for double-checking, Uli!

The whole purpose of using subclips and not duration markers or select timelines is to fully use the media page in the field and organize the footage as fast as possible...

If we need to transcode, then rename and manually re-organize the proxies outside of Resolve, it would prolong the editing process by a lot when dealing with hours of footage, not to mention that it's prone to human errors.

To summarize the discussion, so far:
1. Subclip proxies always play from frame 1, instead of playing from the IN point selected when the Subclip was created.
2. When transcoding multiple subclips from the same main clip via Media Management, Resolve only transcodes the full main clip instead of the individual subclips with their respective lengths.

Maybe someone from BM can chip in on this... Could it be that there's a setting somewhere that we're missing and it's creating this chaos?

Give Kyno a try.

**EDIT** so after this post I also found out subclips are destructive and I cant add frames from the original.. unless im doing something wrong. this is REALLY whack..

(earlier post) Set up proxies for a HUGE dailies session. after working 3 hours all my subclips were wrong. after pulling my hair out I finally realized that yes, going back to optimized retained my original edits. so me and my now bald head mumbled a few curse words and I moved on. I don't get it. technically this should be the easiest thing in the world to implement properly. I cannot figure out for the life of me how this managed to be released like this. Love fusion and resolve but this isn't a niche requirement, its the staple of NLE's. If I was BM I would be embarrassed about this. FCPX had "favorites" for years now. ridiculous.

The issue still is present in 17.2.2 build 4 on Mac OS (M1 chip).

However, I did find that something interesting is happening when I append audio tracks using Auto Sync Audio -> Based on Timecode and Append tracks function: the audio track that was embedded in the original video file plays incorrectly (as explained above), yet the appended track behaves normally and plays in sync within the Subcllip.

This makes me think that when you're creating the Subclips, the timecode reference to the original audio track is somehow lost, so maybe fixing that would fix the bug?

As I said previously, it would be great if this were addressed soon since the Subclips feature is really useful, but this bug makes it practically unusable in an offline workflow using proxies...

17.3.1, the bug is still here

Registered to forum just to explain my workaround for this bug.

Turn off 'use proxy media' AFTER making your sub-clip. (Playback>Use Proxy Media if Available *deselect*) This will allow you to view your sub-clip with the intended in and out times. Confirm your sub-clip looks okay. Then right click on the new sub-clip and generate a new proxy of the sub-clip.

This process will take up more disk space as you'll need to have individual proxies for each sub-clip instead of referencing one file. BUT, you can have sub-clips and actually be able to scrub through them.

I hope this gets fixed soon. I'm in the process of learning video editing and cinematography. After 1 week in Adobe Premiere, I felt I was fully in control and could quickly and intuitively learn what i didn't know, allowing me to focus on the creative process. I decided to continue my learning process in DaVinci Resolve for its superior power in color management and its lower cost. I don't want to be fighting with bugs like this, though. I'd rather pay for Premiere. Sticking it out for now. Crossing my fingers for the best.

17.3.2 The bug is still here

I'm getting the same issue described in this thread. Will a fix for this bug be in an update soon?

Thanks
Steph

And bug is STILL HERE with 17.4 !

The bugs are still here in 17.4.1

I generated a proxy for the original file, figuring it would save both time and disk space. I have numerous subclips for the file. I manually linked them as I was finding what people have already reported here in which Resolve was wanting to create proxies for each subclip.

I thought maybe tricking it by editing the subclip and giving it full extents would fix the issue but it behaves the same way regardless of whether that is set.

The issue with missing or displaced audio still remains in 17.4.1, which is annoying.

I think gerenating proxies manually from original files is not a solution if you want to just use small part of orifinal clip. Using DR proxies from subclips would then make only partial proxy, which is what I think makes sense.

I also noticed another funny bug - I select all my clips and subclips in media pool and generate proxies. I noticed only cca 90% of proxies are made. You need to do the rest manually, which is also anoying if you have a lot of footage.

Anyone tried workaround using optimized media? I will check this out...

It's a pitty, because this workflow could be great, but I just spent couple of hours genereating proxies which don't work

What about 17.4.2?

In 17.4.2 I generated a proxy for the original file and the subclips seem to show the the proper results. Only the original file shows as having a proxy though and its not clear whether subclips are using the proxy or not.

Greetings folks!

So I've jumped from Pr to Davinic Resolve Studio 17. Love the app, but I've finally hit my first pothole. From what I'm reading, this is a lingering problem with this app.

I'm running 17.4.3, build 10.

I cannot create usable sub clips from my Proxies.

I noticed that when I create a sub clip, it is broken in Proxy mode. The audio is correct, but the video starts at the top of the clip, not where is should in the sub clip I/O point.

When turning off Proxy Media and/or using optimized media, the video and audio plays correctly as a sub clip, starting and ending at the correct I/O points.

If anyone has updates on this problem or a fix, I'm looking forward to it.

My system:
Mac Pro 5,1
macOS Mojave
Nvidia Quadro K5000 x 2
128GB RAM

Thanks folks!

MJW

This is really bad.

It seems that if you make the subclip before you generate the proxy, it's ok but after the proxy is generated it creating new subclips exhibits this problem.

It's unusable in this present form (subclips w/ proxies). I'll spend some time later seeing if I can characterize this a bit better.

I thought of creating a subclip and then selecting that in the media pool and generating a proxy for the subclip but then the audio is silent (not sure why).

Update - could be that the offset between video and audio took the subclip to a location without audio. If I repeat this test with a subclip created closer to the start of the master clip, the subclip has audio, offset by its start location relative to the master clip.

Doesn't this make subclips almost useless if you need to use proxies sometimes?

Oh my god.. This is ridiculous. We decided to make the jump from Media Composer for a documentary, and first day in, with encounter this subclip/proxy bug, it's a nightmare.
I think we had subclips back in 1998 in Avid ?

Oh my god.. This is ridiculous. We decided to make the jump from Media Composer for a documentary, and first day in, with encounter this subclip/proxy bug, it's a nightmare.
I think we had subclips back in 1998 in Avid ?

I am also a long time Media Composer user and for me, subclips are an essential part of my workflow, but not with Resolve (because of this issue, primarily). In Resolve I tend to mark regions within the master clip as duration markers and because each clip can have many duration markers I use those instead of subclips but I would prefer that subclips work.

Oh my god.. This is ridiculous. We decided to make the jump from Media Composer for a documentary, and first day in, with encounter this subclip/proxy bug, it's a nightmare.
I think we had subclips back in 1998 in Avid ?

I am also a long time Media Composer user and for me, subclips are an essential part of my workflow, but not with Resolve (because of this issue, primarily). In Resolve I tend to mark regions within the master clip as duration markers and because each clip can have many duration markers I use those instead of subclips but I would prefer that subclips work.

Steve, thanks for pointing me to this thread.

Studio 17.4.5 ...the nightmare continues.

In fact, I could not even do the BDM training on subclips *without* proxies when I encountered this bug. The irony.

+1 here

A slightly different approach that results in another kind of not expected behaviour
Source Material is HEVC (H.265) MP4 1080@50 ALL-I

1. created Subclips on the orginals with keep extend
2. rendering Proxy Material results in incomplete Proxies
   
   • It seems that when there are multiple Subclips on one source, it's generating Proxies only for one Subclip (when rendering Proxies in one run)
   • Multiple Subclips on one Source, when rendering all Proxies in one run, results only in one being linked to the Proxy
   • Trying to regenerate full Proxies on the imported full Sources results again in incomplete Proxies

This Error behaviour applies only to subclips which are creeated with the "Use full clip extends" Option unchecked.
Multiple Supclipse on one Source with the use option checked are working fine and are linked to the same Proxy file.

So for the time being I will keep the option checked, eventhough this results always in lots of longer Proxies and Render Time.

Just as a Hint to all other Users:
If you enable the Columns Proxy and Proxy Path in the Media Pool Listing, you will see the Subclips Proxies named with a _S000, _S0001 Name Suffix. These seem to represent the Subclips Proxies when "Use full clip extends" is uncheched.
It might be that this somehow gets tangled up when generating the Proxies and having more than one Subclip on one Source.

Does anyone know if Resolve 18 addresses this issue? I read that there is a “new DaVinci proxy workflow”… I wonder if they finally fixed the subclip issue, and if we can jump in with an old project that already has proxies.

Does anyone know if Resolve 18 addresses this issue? I read that there is a “new DaVinci proxy workflow”… I wonder if they finally fixed the subclip issue, and if we can jump in with an old project that already has proxies.

I saw someone post this bug in the beta 18 forum so I would say the answer is no. I find this surprising considering how important proxies are to the whole cloud workflow in which BMD has invested a fortune.

DR Studio 18.0.1: The problem continues.