problem Panasonic S1R 5k 10bits footages

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vipvip242

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problem Panasonic S1R 5k 10bits footages

PostWed Apr 14, 2021 4:14 pm

Hi Everbody,

first of all, big congrats for DVR : it is a fantastic piece !!
i'm new in your universe, comming from adobe world since 25+ years !

As written on the topic, DVR doens't read correctly (jerky reading) with Panasonic S1R 5K 4:2:0 10bits .MOV files (i suppose it is HEVC compression...). it would be nice if it was a patch for this, because actualy, we have to convert internaly (generate optimised media) to use them correctly...

best regards (and sorry for my English, i'm french),

Vincent
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Uli Plank

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Re: problem Panasonic S1R 5k 10bits footages

PostThu Apr 15, 2021 12:24 am

Do you have Resolve Studio? If so, but your GPU is not supporting hardware decoding of 10 bit H.264/265, this is normal.
Don't approach Resolve with your expectations from other NLEs! They are all different.
Resolve Studio 17.2 and Fusion Studio 17, macOS 10.15.7
iMac 2017 Radeon Pro 580 8 GB VRAM, 32 GB RAM
2018 Mac mini 16 GB RAM, eGFX Breakway RX 580 MacOS 10.15.7
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vipvip242

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Re: problem Panasonic S1R 5k 10bits footages

PostThu Apr 15, 2021 5:30 am

Yes it is 17.1 studio version (licenced).
And the GPU is RTX 3080, so it should support, no ?
I can post a exemple footage if it helps...
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vipvip242

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Re: problem Panasonic S1R 5k 10bits footages

PostThu Apr 15, 2021 6:32 am

here is an example 5K 10bits 4:2:0 HLG footage :

https://wetransfer.com/downloads/b435b4 ... ient_email

note that these 5K 10bits 4:2:0 HLG footages are played perfectly by VLC player...
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Jim Simon

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Re: problem Panasonic S1R 5k 10bits footages

PostThu Apr 15, 2021 4:57 pm

vipvip242 wrote:we have to convert internaly (generate optimised media) to use them correctly.
Yes, you do. ;)
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Uli Plank

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Re: problem Panasonic S1R 5k 10bits footages

PostFri Apr 16, 2021 4:26 am

Playing perfectly fine here on my machines in Studio. My humble GPU is showing less than one third load.
BTW, if VLC could do what DR does, it wouldn't be faster, probably even slower…
Don't approach Resolve with your expectations from other NLEs! They are all different.
Resolve Studio 17.2 and Fusion Studio 17, macOS 10.15.7
iMac 2017 Radeon Pro 580 8 GB VRAM, 32 GB RAM
2018 Mac mini 16 GB RAM, eGFX Breakway RX 580 MacOS 10.15.7
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vipvip242

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Re: problem Panasonic S1R 5k 10bits footages

PostFri Apr 16, 2021 6:20 pm

Jim Simon wrote:
vipvip242 wrote:we have to convert internaly (generate optimised media) to use them correctly.
Yes, you do. ;)

Thanks, if i succeed in playing perflectly thiese kind of footage, what would be the benefice of converting ?
Last edited by vipvip242 on Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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vipvip242

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Re: problem Panasonic S1R 5k 10bits footages

PostFri Apr 16, 2021 6:25 pm

Uli Plank wrote:Playing perfectly fine here on my machines in Studio. My humble GPU is showing less than one third load.
BTW, if VLC could do what DR does, it wouldn't be faster, probably even slower…


ok thanks, ans scrubbing on the timeline is perfectly fluid to with this footage ?

that's very stange because i've tried on 2 machines (i9/7940x/64GB/ GTX 1080ti and i9/7920x/64gb/rtx3080) with DR 17.1 & both have problems to read it in DC...
other type of footages read perfectly... in prefs, i've set the decode option on GPU... (i have to try with the very last nvidia studio drivers... but the one i use are only 1 month old)
anyone has an idea about this problem?
Thanks
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Jim Simon

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Re: problem Panasonic S1R 5k 10bits footages

PostFri Apr 16, 2021 10:09 pm

vipvip242 wrote:what would be the benefice of converting ?
Improved performance for scrubbing and effects.
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Uli Plank

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Re: problem Panasonic S1R 5k 10bits footages

PostFri Apr 16, 2021 11:30 pm

Second that. Scrubbing is not perfect on my machines, apart from the new M1.
Don't approach Resolve with your expectations from other NLEs! They are all different.
Resolve Studio 17.2 and Fusion Studio 17, macOS 10.15.7
iMac 2017 Radeon Pro 580 8 GB VRAM, 32 GB RAM
2018 Mac mini 16 GB RAM, eGFX Breakway RX 580 MacOS 10.15.7
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vipvip242

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Re: problem Panasonic S1R 5k 10bits footages

PostSat Apr 17, 2021 5:11 am

thanks guys for your help, i hope the BM team has perhaps something to do to optimize theses kind of footages in future releases. Until that, i'll continue to optimize them.
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Uli Plank

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Re: problem Panasonic S1R 5k 10bits footages

PostSat Apr 17, 2021 7:42 am

Well, Apple seems to be optimising right now ;-)
Don't approach Resolve with your expectations from other NLEs! They are all different.
Resolve Studio 17.2 and Fusion Studio 17, macOS 10.15.7
iMac 2017 Radeon Pro 580 8 GB VRAM, 32 GB RAM
2018 Mac mini 16 GB RAM, eGFX Breakway RX 580 MacOS 10.15.7
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joema4

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Re: problem Panasonic S1R 5k 10bits footages

PostSat Apr 17, 2021 1:29 pm

vipvip242 wrote:thanks guys for your help, i hope the BM team has perhaps something to do to optimize theses kind of footages in future releases. Until that, i'll continue to optimize them.


Your footage is 4992x3744, 23.98 fps, 10 bit 4:2:0, 194 megabit/sec. It is encoded HEVC using the Main10 L6 High profile. GOP length is 12 frames.

There are multiple types of hardware video acceleration, and for each type there are multiple versions. E.g, there are multiple versions of Intel's Quick Sync, multiple versions of nVidia's NVDEC/NVENC, multiple versions of AMD's UVD/VCE, probably multiple versions of Apple's accelerator which first appeared in the T2 chip but is now integrated within the Apple Silicon SoC.

Each of those have different capabilities and different software frameworks to access them. For each combination of accelerator type, accelerator version and software framework, the NLE may (or may not) leverage those in various ways. For a specific resolution, bit depth and chroma sampling on H264 or HEVC, there are many internal variations such as encoding profile, GOP length, # of reference frames, whether GOPs are independent or dependent, etc. Each of those may or may not be handled by accelerator hardware.

FCPX used Intel's Quick Sync for decoding from about 2011 but Premiere Pro did not use that until much later. Resolve made a big jump around ver. 15 and apparently started using decode acceleration much more effectively.

Video acceleration hardware is not like a general-purpose GPU where texture & shading units can work on a wide range of parallel tasks. Rather it must be specifically designed for certain frame rates, resolutions, bit depths, chroma samplings, and encoding formats. Anything outside the list of handled formats, and video acceleration will fall back to software decoding. The core algorithm for decoding "Long GOP" like H264 and HEVC is inherently sequential. It cannot be parallelized by the hundreds of lightweight threads a traditional GPU uses for graphics. Rather, dedicated "fixed function" hardware must simply run that core sequential algorithm quicker. In some cases that special hardware is bundled on the GPU but is logically separate from it.

Measuring playback smoothness and responsiveness is difficult. What seems smooth to one person is sluggish to another. To some people smoothness is if 1x speed forward playback has no dropped frames. To another it is how rapidly the monitor updates when moving the playhead. For many editors it is how lag-free the program monitor and playhead are when doing rapid JKL edits, esp. when switching from fast forward to reverse, or when using a hardware jog wheel.

On my 2017 iMac Pro with 16GB Vega 64 and a 10-core Xeon CPU, your 5k Panasonic HEVC clip is quite sluggish in FCPX 10.5.2, Premiere Pro 15.1.0 and Resolve Studio 17.1.1. By contrast on my 2019 MacBook Pro 16 which has an 8-core i9 "Coffee Lake" CPU and 8GB Radeon Pro 5500M, both FCPX and Resolve are much smoother. Both are running Catalina 10.15.7. That shows the difference in the underlying decode acceleration. On the iMac Pro the NLEs are probably using an early version of Apple's T2 chip which likely cannot handle that format. Xeon does not have any build-in video acceleration. On the newer MacBook Pro (which has newer accelerators, inc'l Quick Sync) the NLEs may be using those.

All Blackmagic can do is call the relevant OS-specific software frameworks to leverage whatever acceleration hardware exists on your platform. If that hardware cannot handle a certain format (which is common for new cameras and new codecs), it will be sluggish.
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Uli Plank

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Re: problem Panasonic S1R 5k 10bits footages

PostSun Apr 18, 2021 4:50 am

This should be a sticky!
Why is BM not publishing it in such a concise way in their own best interest?
Oh, BTW, it is snappy on the MB Air M1.
Don't approach Resolve with your expectations from other NLEs! They are all different.
Resolve Studio 17.2 and Fusion Studio 17, macOS 10.15.7
iMac 2017 Radeon Pro 580 8 GB VRAM, 32 GB RAM
2018 Mac mini 16 GB RAM, eGFX Breakway RX 580 MacOS 10.15.7
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vipvip242

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Re: problem Panasonic S1R 5k 10bits footages

PostMon Apr 19, 2021 6:02 am

Thanks Joe gor this complete explanation... on my computer, it is really sluggish, and it is not subjetive... i cross fingers hoping it can remains a soutionion, if not, converting as "optimized media" works very well, it is just a question of time-converting and ssd-space...
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vipvip242

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Re: problem Panasonic S1R 5k 10bits footages

PostSat Apr 24, 2021 1:11 pm

hi Guys
juste for information for anyone who encounters this problem : i've upgraded from 17.1 to 17.1.1 (last), installed the last NVIDIA STUDIO drivers and scanned applications with geforce experience (DVR is optimised with it) and now, these 5K footages play perfectly smoothly in DVR. Just the scrubbing is still a bit sluggish but this is not the problem...

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