Blackmagic Forum

I am trying to edit Canon R5 8K All-I files. Just adding the clips in the Media Tab uses up all my memory. Once they are all incorporated (it takes a long while with all memory taken up) and I go to the Edit tab, just placing one clip on the timeline again uses up 100% of memory and 85% CPU and that may last for 30 seconds. The timeline resolution is set to to 1080p. I am not (yet) color correcting or rendering - this is simply adding clips and placing them on the timeline. The computer comes to a stop, I cannot move the cursor until the memory use recedes after a while. Then I move the next clip and again, 100% memory for at least 30 seconds of frozen.

What is going on? I have not had this problem with any other sets of clips (Sony All-I, cng RAW, BRAW).

is that 8K file a h264 type of file?

waltervolpatto wrote:is that 8K file a h264 type of file?

H265 but All-I.

It would help if you post more complete computer specs, not just the RAM, but also processor, GPU and driver, whether the media is on an external drive or a different internal drive (and whether SSD or HDD), free space available on the OS and storage drives.

gtempleman wrote:It would help if you post more complete computer specs, not just the RAM, but also processor, GPU and driver, whether the media is on an external drive or a different internal drive (and whether SSD or HDD), free space available on the OS and storage drives.

i7 10th generation, Nvidia GTX 1660 Ti, media on an external SSD, internal drive is SSD.

230GB free on OS, 336GB free on external SSD with the clips.

Note: Just going from one tab to another locks up the computer ar 100% RAM and 100% CPU for minutes, then both decrease. I actually can render fine and color grade, but even moving the horizontal slider will fill the RAM and CPU for a minute or so.

Get a better GPU (if you can find one) or shoot 4K. A 1660 is barely enough for 4K and 8K is 4 times the amount of data!

Sounds like your 8K H265 media is not being accelerated by hardware decode, and that just isn't going to happen on your CPU. Can you give a sample clip?

Only very recent GPUs support that format. If you post a sample, I can tell you if a M1 does.

Blackmagic states that a minimum of 16GB is required for Windows, but that's a bare minimum and I'm pretty skeptical that this amount of RAM would be sufficient for 8K media. Each frame of an 8K clip takes 16 X more memory than an HD clip. It's my observation that people don't really appreciate how much more stress 4K puts on a system than HD, let alone 8K.

Uli Plank wrote:Only very recent GPUs support that format.

Worse than that. No standalone GPU supports it.

markr041 wrote:I am trying to edit Canon R5 8K All-I files.

Create Proxies or Optimized Media as a first step before editing.

I'm partial to OM using Cineform at 1/4 resolution.

Thank you for answering. But I am afraid that I was not clear as what what is going on, as none of the answers speak to the specific issue I am having. Let me try again.

First, I am not playing or decoding any clips when the RAM gets filled. This occurs simply by going from one tab to another - like from Edit to Color tabs. Second, the GPU is not being used at all for these "operations" - I can see exactly what resources are being used. Third, once RAM has emptied, which it always does after a while, and the CPU calms down I can actually play the clips as long as I set project properties so that the timeline is 1080 or 4K. Playing the clips or rendering the clips are not the problem.

The question is why is the CPU and RAM are being totally maxed out just to go from one tab to another? What operation is Resolve performing that depends on the resolution, or codec or bitrate of the clips?

If your RAM gets filled, get more of it. There is no way around that if you insist on 8K. Since there is no hardware decoding for that format, your CPU will work very hard and ask for the RAM. The industry invented 8K to sell hardware. Who wants 8K will have to pay for it.

That camera can shoot excellent 4K/UHD in 422 and 10 bit. I bet you'll be better off shooting that, you got a nice middle-class machine that should handle it if you don't use very demanding effects. To work smoothly in 8K you'll need a high-end machine at the upper level of todays technology. But you may have difficulties finding the GPU you need.

Indeed you just need more ram.
What you describe sounds typicaly like any OS behaves when it needs more ram then physicaly available. Its starts to swap out to disk. That stalls your computer untill the opration is finished and you may or may not have temporary performance back.
I would never run resolve on anything less then 32gb unless i limit myself to HD source material (or HD proxies )
8k heavily compressed media (like h264/h265) on a 16gb machine is just not realistic. Not long ago 4k on such a machine was already insane but hardware decoding helped in that respect.

Glenn Venghaus wrote:8k heavily compressed media (like h264/h265) on a 16gb machine is just not realistic.

I think it's important to understand that when you're trying to process 8K footage the issue isn't really with whether the media is compressed or not. Yes, having to decompress is going to stress the CPU, but the OP's issue is running out of RAM. Even with compressed 8K footage, Resolve will still decompress it in order to work with it, and that means it's going to gobble up a ton of memory (about half a gigabyte per frame, since there are 32M pixels per frame and each pixel requires four 4-byte floating point numbers for the colour and alpha channels). That's why the system is gobbling up the RAM.

Even just dragging a clip onto the timeline means Resolve is going to have to decompress a slew of 8K frames just so that it can display the little thumbnails along the length of the clip. At half a gigabyte per frame, you can go through 16GB of RAM really quickly.

Using proxy media, preferably at HD resolution, is very likely the only way around this short of getting more memory.

markr041 wrote:Second, the GPU is not being used at all for these "operations

No Nvidia GPU can handle those files. Decompressing them is totally on your CPU and RAM. Even if you bought the latest 3090 it wouldn't help.

If you post a short sample, I can try if the M1 understands it.

Sean Nelson wrote:

Glenn Venghaus wrote:8k heavily compressed media (like h264/h265) on a 16gb machine is just not realistic.

I think it's important to understand that when you're trying to process 8K footage the issue isn't really with whether the media is compressed or not. Yes, having to decompress is going to stress the CPU, but the OP's issue is running out of RAM. Even with compressed 8K footage, Resolve will still decompress it in order to work with it, and that means it's going to gobble up a ton of memory (about half a gigabyte per frame, since there are 32M pixels per frame and each pixel requires four 4-byte floating point numbers for the colour and alpha channels). That's why the system is gobbling up the RAM.

Even just dragging a clip onto the timeline means Resolve is going to have to decompress a slew of 8K frames just so that it can display the little thumbnails along the length of the clip. At half a gigabyte per frame, you can go through 16GB of RAM really quickly.

Using proxy media, preferably at HD resolution, is very likely the only way around this short of getting more memory.

Actualy both.
When the RAM is full the cpu will be fully occupied swapping memory in and out to disk , and if it at the same time is tasked to decompress frames, it grinds to a halt. That why after some time as described by OP he can actualy start playing back the 8k files. (when the swapping out settles)
So one is compounding the other. But of course memory as we all metioned 100 times is key here .

Thanks for the responses. I was surprised that merely going from tab to tab uses up RAM. And it is correct, the computer behaves as if it is swapping RAM and disk to do the processing of the clips just for thumbnail display (so the CPU gets employed too). So, increasing RAM to 32 GB's might solve this problem (possible), or using proxies of course. I had thought scrubbing through the timeline and playing clips would be the issue for 10bit HEVC 422 8K files, but it is not!

And it is correct, that the HEVC 10 bit 422 compression is not the issue, as the Intel chip I have (10th generation) decodes HEVC 422 10bit in hardware (Quicksync, which Resolve supports). Thus, I can actually play the clips once they are loaded up.

At the end of the day, if I am patient, I can produce 8K videos with no proxies on this system (still testing):

markr041 wrote:T

And it is correct, that the HEVC 10 bit 422 compression is not the issue, as the Intel chip I have (10th generation) decodes HEVC 422 10bit in hardware (Quicksync, which Resolve supports).

Are you on a laptop? 10th gen desktop doesn't handle 4.2.2. I assume you're using Studio .

Nick2021 wrote:

markr041 wrote:T

And it is correct, that the HEVC 10 bit 422 compression is not the issue, as the Intel chip I have (10th generation) decodes HEVC 422 10bit in hardware (Quicksync, which Resolve supports).

Are you on a laptop? 10th gen desktop doesn't handle 4.2.2. I assume you're using Studio .

You are correct; I misread - decode 422 8K on 10th generation mobile. I have desktop, and of course Studio (non-Studio cannot read HEVC 8K 422 clips at all).

So, I created "optimized" media in Resolve - at 1/2 resolution DNxHD. I had 51 original clips of about 6 seconds of duration each, all 10bit Clog 3 8K HEVC All-I. It took Resolve 10 hours to create the media. The target folder and the original clips were on a fast external SSD.

Once the media were finished, editing on the timeline in 4K was easy and smooth.

It took 2 hours to render the 2-minute video in 4K from the 8-minute clips (H264 8bit).

If you have two machines . One that can decode the files and one that doesn't. It might make sense to create the media on the laptop. Store it on a NAS. Then use it on the desktop. Or just use sneakernet. Store onto an external drive and then use that to copy the new media.

I'll let others comment on any possible issues.

There are not many laptops to decode that format in hardware.

Nick2021 wrote:If you have two machines . One that can decode the files and one that doesn't. It might make sense to create the media on the laptop. Store it on a NAS. Then use it on the desktop. Or just use sneakernet. Store onto an external drive and then use that to copy the new media.

I'll let others comment on any possible issues.

That's clever. The laptop with 10th-generation Intel i7 does the decoding of the HEVC 422 files, which it can do in hardware, and the desktop does the real work on the optimized files.

The only snag is that in Resolve the optimized files are placed where you want them in settings, but when you move those files (on the external disk) to another computer it is not clear that the new project will find or use them. I don't know, since I have only optimized on the same computer, which works smoothly and automatically, though, of course, absurdly slowly.

Maybe just transcode the files. Don't lower the resolution . Pick a format that's easier on your computer.

On the desktop instead of importing HEVC you'll be importing DNX of some sort.

Second that. Transcode to Cineform or DNxHR in high quality and work with that.
An alternative would be using proxies, which can be moved other than optimized media.

Thanks again for the suggestions. I think I have a better way using the Canon R5 to avoid the very long process of transcoding or making optimized media/proxy media from HEVC 422 8K clips - shoot RAW and proxies at the same time. I will report on this workflow in another thread.

In the meantime, here is the 8K video produced after the 20-hour optimizing process, which went smoothly after that:



with rough audio at this point.

Mark...

I always say that “if the observer cannot see what we do, we are wasting our time”.

The compression itself will kill the 8K, or a 4K for that matter.... I think it is over killed. Give me a superb HR or a good 4K and I’m fine.

I will personally reduce that to 4K (or capture in a smaller format) UNLESS the client really wants/need 8k.