Critical problem with Timeline Color Space in 17

When you install 17, the Timeline Color Space in project settings is usually Rec 709 2.4. But this may switch to Rec 709 Scene in new projects and almost always does so when opening old ones that were graded in 2.4 in 16. It also defaults to Rec 709 Scene when turning Resolve Color Management on, then off again.

This is obviously a major problem a) because it changes everything in your grade and b) because any OFX with "Use Timeline" produce terrible results until you manually switch back to Rec 709 2.4 in the settings.

What I think is causing this is that Project Settings, Presets > System Config is now set to Rec 709 (Scene) for Timeline Color Space. This has always been Rec 709 2.4 in previous versions. I can see no reason why this should change, it looks like an error.

Could this please be fixed and set to Rec 709 2.4 in the next update?

While we're on the subject of Rec709 Scene, could the default Input Color Space assigned to clips also be set to Rec 709 2.4 instead of Scene? I've never understood how Scene could be chosen as a default input color space since I've never come across any media that's natively Rec709 Scene. Using Scene as default just creates unnecessary complications like changing every single clip in your project when you turn color management on (when color management is off, Resolve treats all clips as 2.4 as it always has).

So globally, could Resolve please function in a default Rec709 2.4 working space on all levels (timeline, media) - as it always used to - so that using color management becomes a tool people can choose to use at any time, not something that changes everything in the project and requires work and specific knowledge to set right?

Thanks!

I've never understood how Scene could be chosen as a default input color space since I've never come across any media that's natively Rec709 Scene.

Any file that actually meets rec709 spec is rec709 scene, meaning, has linear segment at toe.

[Peter Chamberlain]

We have no plans to default back to the previous setting. If that is your preference you can set it and then save it as your default preset, in project settings.

The Timeline should always have been Rec.709 Scene for any Rec.709 project.

With that said, there is currently inconsistent behavior in Resolve.

For a completely NEW installation (as in all preferences removed), the default timeline setting in a non-color managed workflow is Rec.709 Scene. However, for an existing installation, the default is still Rec.709 Gamma 2.4 (unless you change to RCM and switch back - in which case it reverts to Rec.709 Scene).

In a Color Managed workflow, the default IS in fact Rec.709 Gamma 2.4 - you can confirm this by selecting the "Custom" preset after selecting "SDR - Rec.709"

What makes it "appear" like Rec.709 Scene though is the fact that the Input/Output DRT combinations push the overall image lower. But make no mistake, the timeline is still Rec.709 Gamma 2.4

The other problem is that some of the controls think the timeline is actually Rec.709 Scene...

I touch on a few of these issues in another thread: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=141516


Overall, the DRT + Rec.709 settings in RCM are a bit of a mess at the moment. I'm just surprised not many people have noticed or complained.

Overall, the DRT + Rec.709 settings in RCM are a bit of a mess at the moment. I'm just surprised not many people have noticed or complained.

I do notice unexpected behaviour with RCM, but for the most times i'm not sure if that's because i'm doing something wrong or if i'm dealing with bugs. which makes me really insecure about using it.

For example; if i use RED IPP2 as output DRT, (rec709 output color space) and manually press "bypass color management" on a individual clip in the timeline, should that clip (rec709 by origin) still be affected by the output DRT? my guess is no, it should show the original colors of the clip. but in reality it is still being affected.

if i post questions about that or something similar here, i'm mostly not getting any answers. So i'm not sure if i should complain or if i'm just missing something myself.

Thanks for answering, Peter. So this is clearly something the development team sees as important and it would be good to understand why.

Would it be possible for Blackmagic to publish something explaining the reasons for the choice and why it matters? There’s nothing in the manual about it, and I haven’t seen anything elsewhere. The use of Rec 709 Scene is very specific to Resolve and external documentation just gives technical specs with no indication as to why it might be a better choice for grading than 2.4. Maybe these documents exist and I just haven’t found them. Any links would also be useful.

I think this would be helpful for a lot of people. None of the colorists or Davinci trainers I know can explain why Resolve resorts to 709 Scene. Before posting my previous post I sent out a query to several of them to check if their version of 17 defaulted to a 709 Scene Timeline Color Space, or if it was just me. They all replied that theirs was 2.4 and believe that to be default, and said there had to be something wrong with my settings.

None of the colorists or Davinci trainers I know can explain why Resolve resorts to 709 Scene.

Ask them which spec are they targeting with rec709 2.4 encoding and let them explain why they don’t target actual rec709 instead.

I think this would be helpful for a lot of people. None of the colorists or Davinci trainers I know can explain why Resolve resorts to 709 Scene. Before posting my previous post I sent out a query to several of them to check if their version of 17 defaulted to a 709 Scene Timeline Color Space, or if it was just me. They all replied that theirs was 2.4 and believe that to be default, and said there had to be something wrong with my settings.

See my note on this point:

For a completely NEW installation (as in all preferences removed), the default timeline setting in a non-color managed workflow is Rec.709 Scene. However, for an existing installation, the default is still Rec.709 Gamma 2.4 (unless you change to RCM and switch back - in which case it reverts to Rec.709 Scene).

In a Color Managed workflow, the default IS in fact Rec.709 Gamma 2.4 - you can confirm this by selecting the "Custom" preset after selecting "SDR - Rec.709"