VST Delay Compensation

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JohnDL

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VST Delay Compensation

PostTue Aug 03, 2021 4:23 am

I am looking for delay compensation control, to turn it on. Every modern DAW and nonlinear editor that I know of now has full delay compensation in order to keep audio samples accurately aligned and to keep audio and video aligned.

I put some VST's on some clips as specific processing was required for whatever reasons.

I put a few VST effects on Tracks as well for the general processing at the track level.

I also put a few VST effects on some submixes as I needed those on those particular submixes.

I have a mastering hard limiter added on the master bus.

As I view and listen, the audio is more and more out of sync with the video, as in WAY behind the video. I'm floored and surprised at the same time. I cannot yet say for sure the all of the audio is in sync with the rest of the audio at this time, but it sure isn't in sync with the video. I invested in the Studio version as it appeared that Blackmagic were coming up with a comprehensive and alternative solution to other industry players.

I need the VST's I have invested in and use. It is an extensive and purposeful collection.

Have I missed a setup configuration or other configuration to make this work? Or is it that I am simply stuck again with round trips to a dedicated DAW software? I've done that before with over 1500 tracks in a separate DAW to process and mix down to required output tracks, but I don't like the procedure especially if changes are made to video cuts.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Reynaud Venter

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Re: VST Delay Compensation

PostTue Aug 03, 2021 4:59 pm

Track-based instances are latency compensated in Flexi Bus mode with the Track Index panel on the Fairlight page indicating the ADC value for each path.

In Fixed Bussing mode or in Resolve 16.x and earlier, the Fairlight Audio Accelerator PCIe card is required for delay compensation.
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JohnDL

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Re: VST Delay Compensation

PostTue Aug 03, 2021 5:13 pm

Thank you.

That/This is the most concise and most straightforward information I've seen on this yet.

I'll be reviewing the last project looking for the items you've mentioned.

Thank you again.
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John Paines

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Re: VST Delay Compensation

PostTue Aug 03, 2021 6:13 pm

I assume this effectively means that VST plugins [still] can't be added selectively to clips on the timeline, without potential latency issues?
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tlegvold

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Re: VST Delay Compensation

PostTue Aug 03, 2021 10:12 pm

Hi John,

If you're adding plugins to clips, in most cases once you're happy with how everything sounds (at least clip-to-clip consistency), you would bake those in by bouncing them to a new layer, and continue working from the new, consolidated layer (that no longer has any plugins on the clips). You can always go back and adjust if needed by bringing the lower layer to the top, adjusting, and bouncing to a new layer.

Track based plugins are more common for mixing, once you have your clips edited and sounding the way you want.

Hope this helps.

Thor
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John Paines

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Re: VST Delay Compensation

PostWed Aug 04, 2021 12:33 am

If you render out audio with plugins, the renders will have the same anomalies (and sometimes additional ones) encountered during real time playback.

I'm worse than a novice with audio -- my limit is pretty much what you can do in a standard NLE timeline -- but I don't think there's any way around this one, at present. It seems the only way is bouncing out the clip to an external audio editor. Fortunately, this works pretty well inside Resolve.
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JohnDL

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Re: VST Delay Compensation

PostWed Aug 04, 2021 12:47 am

tlegvold wrote:Hi John,

If you're adding plugins to clips, in most cases once you're happy with how everything sounds (at least clip-to-clip consistency), you would bake those in
Thor


In Resolve I do believe that gives a better result. Thank you.

To all: It does appear that we've inadvertently set up for the Fixed Bus type here for that particular project.

I created a separate test project and have meticulously gone through settings and it appears that the general timing compensation is working. I am quite relieved. I've purposefully placed a few plugins with horrendous timing delay into various places and I can see the audio still lines up with video. At this point I've not tested actual fx applied to specific clips.

Thank you all for the help. Surprisingly, in doing searches this information generally did not come up. It can be difficult sometimes to formulate a search using the right nomenclature to yield results.
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JohnDL

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Re: VST Delay Compensation

PostWed Aug 04, 2021 12:54 am

At this point I do believe that for a larger project I will still need to go out to another DAW and other specialty software, coming back in with stems or finished tracks.

There is quite a lot of potential here, but I'm missing items like folders and means of hiding and grouping things I'm not working with in favor of those things that I am, and in naming those "Views" and being able to recall them and/or edit them as I go forward. There are many issues there for the sake of workflow, but for smaller projects I can see that I should be able to nearly 100% stay in Resolve.
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Peter Chamberlain

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Re: VST Delay Compensation

PostWed Aug 04, 2021 4:31 am

Thanks for the feedback.. we r woking on improving Fairlight daily and this info is valuable.
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TheBloke

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Re: VST Delay Compensation

PostWed Aug 04, 2021 7:12 am

Peter Chamberlain wrote:Thanks for the feedback.. we r woking on improving Fairlight daily and this info is valuable.
I love the idea of being able to do proper audio work in Resolve without having to use a separate DAW.

As we're talking about plugins, here's some usability issues I've encountered and found to be a little frustrating, and some missing features I've wished for when using Fairlight recently:

> Moving plugins up/down on a track is fiddly, requiring opening the Inspector, collapsing each plugin, and then using the little up/down arrows. It takes tens of seconds each time, and would be vastly quicker if they could just be dragged up/down in the mixer -> effects list.

Likewise for clip plugins, the Inspector -> Effect up/down arrows is the only way and is slow to use, and makes it difficult to visualise what plugins are on a given clip (you need to keep collapsing them all just to see a list of everything that's on a given clip.)

Reaper provides a dedicated "FX Chain" window, that works for both tracks and clips. Accessible by clicking the FX button on a track or clip, it allows easy drag/drop re-ordering, and instant access to each of the plugin windows, presets, etc:
Image

A similar window in Fairlight would make plugin management much easier for both tracks and clips.

> Plugins for some reason are not "always on top" so they often get lost behind the Resolve window. I can't quite figure this out, because sometimes they stay on top, but often they don't. It possibly only affects AU plugins rather than VST.

> The "Add plugins" dialogue and Effect Libraries window could be quicker to use. It would be great if there was a second grouping in this menu, showing plugins by developer. Similarly, the main Effects Library only has grouping by type (VST/AU/FairlightFX), meaning a search is often required for non-favourited plugins.

For comparison, Reaper's "Add FX" menu provides: Plugins by type (VST vs AU vs stock); plugins by category; plugins by developer; multiple, customisable favourite lists; the ability to add new categories; saved plugin chains.

Some more customisation in this area could save a lot of time when dealing with large numbers of plugins.

> Side chain routing with plugins: So far as I can see there's no way in Fairlight to, for example, drive a track compressor plugin with the output of one or more other tracks. The current "Send" and "Listen" system is better than nothing, but very limited: you can send any number of tracks to one other track, and then compress that other track according to the sent signals. In a full DAW, it'd be possible to route any track/bus to the side chain of any other track, and route this into the side chain inputs of any plugins on that track.

In Reaper for example, every plugin has this routing matrix which allows any plugin to send to any other:
Image

Thanks for all the improvements you're making to Fairlight, and I hope it'll keep getting even more powerful and easy to use.
Last edited by TheBloke on Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Reynaud Venter

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Re: VST Delay Compensation

PostWed Aug 04, 2021 7:24 am

TheBloke wrote:Saveable Plugin chains/lists: A great Reaper feature (and many other DAWs I'm sure): the ability to save a preset consisting of a list of plugins, and their settings.
Fairlight menu > Presets Library > Plugins Presets
(accessible from the “Filter by” drop-down).

The "Add plugins" window in the mixer is slow to use. It shows only a static filtering by category and I often find plugins aren't in the categories I expect.
Plugins may be added to a different group:
Preferences > Audio Plugins > Available Plugins.

Click the Category column to expose a pop-up menu with the available categories.

favourite lists
Favourites may be defined in the Effects Library panel. Hover over a plugin in the listing to expose a star icon. This allows a plugin to be added or removed from the favourites listing.

Favourites are added to a dedicated section in the Effects Library panel as well as to the top of the plugin listing on the Fairlight Mixer's Effects drop-down.
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TheBloke

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Re: VST Delay Compensation

PostWed Aug 04, 2021 8:53 am

Thanks Reynaud, I did miss some of those existing features. I've edited my post accordingly.
Reynaud Venter wrote:Fairlight menu > Presets Library > Plugins Presets
(accessible from the “Filter by” drop-down).
Ah thank you, I missed that. It'd be nice if this was integrated into the main UI, but yeah this is definitely helpful.

Click the Category column to expose a pop-up menu with the available categories.
Thanks, that could be helpful to clear up some unexpected categories. But I'd still love to have a by-developer listing, and the ability to create custom categories would be very nice. And again, having it in the main UI would be nice.

I really like Reaper's Add FX window, which combines all of these features into a single UI which is accessible any time from both tracks and clips, and allows filtering, favouriting, editing lists, etc, all in the same place. It also has Smart Folders, which dynamically show all plugins matching a certain criteria (though I haven't used that yet personally.)

Image

Favourites may be defined in the Effects Library panel. Hover over a plugin in the listing to expose a star icon. This allows a plugin to be added or removed from the favourites listing.
Ah yeah, I did know about that but I was hoping for the ability to have categorised favourites in customisable lists. I've clarified this in my post.

Thanks for the info!
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Ru Cook

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Re: VST Delay Compensation

PostThu Feb 23, 2023 3:20 pm

Hi, could anyone tell me what the state of play re:Delay compensation is in 2023 for Resolve Studio 18.1?

I.e, can I add AU or VST plugins to a track for mixing & not have to worry about them going out of sync with each other (& the video), in the same way I do on Pro Tools?

Cheers
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Reynaud Venter

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Re: VST Delay Compensation

PostThu Feb 23, 2023 3:29 pm

The Tracks Index panel indicates the ADC for the path when plugins are instantiated across the insert.
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