Issue with 10 bits output (playback)

Hi everyone,

I have just bought my new 10-bit 4k monitor (Asus PA329C) for a more advance freedom in colour grading and was super exciting until I playbacked my 10-bit recordings on it and realised this 8-bit lines all over my image... (whether it's through Video Clean Feed, or simple Preview, or Cinema viewer)
When I don't playback the clips (the video is paused), the lines are not visible, it is only when I playback that they appear on screen.

Specs and necessary information:

• Camera: BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera 6K

• Apple ProRes 422 HQ 10 bit 3840x2160 25 frame rate

Windows

• Windows 10

• Nvidia Control Panel of the monitor > Display > Change resolution: Output colour depth: 10 bpc / Desktop colour depth: Highest (32-bit) / Output dynamic range: Full / Output colour format: RGB

• DaVinci Resolve Studio 17 - Version 17.2.1 Build 12

• Project Settings > Master Settings > Video Monitoring > Video bit depth: 10 bit

Mac

• MacOS Big Sur

• Versions and project settings are similar to the Windows 10 ones

Some settings:



What I see on my monitor:
Video paused (graded)

Video playing (graded)


The 8-bit lines are way more obvious when the clip is being graded, slightly noticeable when ungraded (flat) but still somehow visible.

I tried my best to find a solution online and make it work and heard that Nvidia RTX 2080-ti series are DirectX 10-bit whereas to make it work with DaVinci, we need to have an OpenGL 10-bit which is with the Nvidia Quadro cards for instance. Another "solution" which I maybe found online is a Decklink (DeckLink Mini Monitor 4K) which outputs clean 10-bit signal? Is that true?
The issue with the latest mentioned is that since I have a Micro ATX motherboard (HP Dorado OC -
"One PCIe x16 Gen 3 socket (for discrete graphic card)") in my computer Windows, I only have 1 PCI-express connector and already used by the graphic card... Alternatives would be a dedicated PCI-e enclosure but all of them (the ones I found) are only Thunderbolt 3 compatible, of course I do not have such ports at the back of my computer.

I own a MacBook Pro which would be a workaround with this Thunderbolt 3 enclosure, but my workstation is all around this Windows computer (speakers, triple monitors, etc.)

Can somebody help me find a solution to my problem? I am starting to be hopeless right now.

Thank you for the ones who took the time to read through here, I do value your time!

Much looking forward to reading from all of you!

Sam

Are you sure your motherboard has only one PCI slot? That would be unusual. Or do you mean the slots are all full with other things?

Are you sure your motherboard has only one PCI slot? That would be unusual. Or do you mean the slots are all full with other things?

My mistake, I first wrote "I have an ATX motherboard" and should have written "I have a Micro ATX motherboard" (I corrected in the post). So yes, with this form factor, I have the following:
Expansion Slots: One PCIe x16 Gen 3 socket (for discrete graphic card)

But can you tell me if it's because I shot wrong with the bmpcc 6K (I used to mainly shoot at 100 ISO since I come from mirrorless cameras and just learnt yesterday that the dynamic range is different regarding ISO and should record at native ISO, 400), or unless I go through a decklink, I will never get 10-bit output on my monitor with my RTX 2080 Ti graphic card?

Thank you

I don't have the solution but I have to say your example looks much worse than 8-bit. Are you doing any denoising?

Another "solution" which I maybe found online is a Decklink

That is the correct option for accurate viewing, which is ideal for doing Color work.

Can you share a video file? I tested with a sample in the same format from https://www.clipcanvas.com/a/video-clip ... ec-samples but there is no solid color like your example (I can't see the banding on my screen, I have a bnq pd2700U)

There is no 10bit viewer in Windows if I'm not mistaken.
Maybe there is with Quadro GPUs.

10bit might sound cool and all but if your delivery is web h264 it's 8bit anyway so why bother?
Only HDR content gets displayed in 10bit.

If you really want 10b monitoring you need a Decklink card or external device and dedicate a display for fullscreen output.

Nvidia enabled 10-bit output in their Studio drivers for current GeForce and Titan series two years ago. Before that it was only available in Quadro cards.

I don't have the solution but I have to say your example looks much worse than 8-bit. Are you doing any denoising?

@roger.magnusson
The screenshot I shared in the post was with no denoising at all. After posting it, I found online DaVinci has a built-in tool called "Debanding" which of course significantly reduced it in the background, but still, why is my footage looking like that?! Because another thing is when I playback my footage, all of my scopes get distorted as the background "bands". At the end of the day, even if I had a proper Decklink through my 10-bit monitor, I would still get "banding" I come to guess.. So maybe the issue stands elsewhere?!

Waveform scope video Paused


Waveform scope video Playing (with no debanding)


Video playing with debanding from DaVinci

Another "solution" which I maybe found online is a Decklink

That is the correct option for accurate viewing, which is ideal for doing Color work.

Yes, but now I have just noticed my Scopes (e.g. Waveform) get distorted when playbacking, which can be a sign of an issue standing elsewhere, don't you think?

Waveform scope video Playing (with no debanding effect)

There is no 10bit viewer in Windows if I'm not mistaken.
Maybe there is with Quadro GPUs.

10bit might sound cool and all but if your delivery is web h264 it's 8bit anyway so why bother?
Only HDR content gets displayed in 10bit.

If you really want 10b monitoring you need a Decklink card or external device and dedicate a display for fullscreen output.

Thanks for your message. I know web h264 is 8 bits but the issue I am having is when I work on my footage (playback,...) I have this enormous banding all over the image which makes really uncomfortable to work with. What if I have a client in my room and the only "way" to watch the video inside DaVinci Resolve is a disgusting image, does not look very professionnal in my opinion. I shared with Maxwell in DM one clip for him to try, maybe the issue only stands inside the clips I recorded.

As I said above, I come from the mirrorless camera world and for me, low ISO equals low noise, so I took that for granted and set my ISO on set to 100. I then discovered online that BMPCC (I suppose other Blackmagic cameras / Cinema cameras) has its dynamic range that shifts regarding ISO. And at a 100 ISO, there is very little room for highlight which could have caused the highlight area to mess up?

BMPCC 6K ISO with Stops (dynamic range)


Can it be possible?

Quick update after trying out multiple things.

The screenshot above are from a recording with BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera 6K in ProRes Film HQ 4K UHD "6K sensor" (bit Depth: 10) which when we playback the clip(s), bandings appear.
We shot couple of weeks ago in the same studio but in BRAW 6K (Bit Depth: 16), so same lighting conditions. When applied the exact same colour correction/grading from the ProRes clips onto the BRAW clip, I do not get bandings (or unnoticeable).

BRAW clip with same colour correction/grading than the ProRes ones - Video playing


There must be an issue with the ProRes recording, now where does it stand?

My first thought on that would be from having recorded in 100 ISO with very bright background > Shift in dynamic range > little information in highlights > banding?

Second thought might be that DaVinci tells me the Bit Depth from ProRes Film HQ is 10 bit but there is somehow of a ?!compression/conversion inside the Project settings?! which brings it down to 8 bit? It sounds unbelievable, but maybe that's a possibility? I am quite new with DaVinci, have only been thoroughly used it from January 2021, so I still have to learn things!

What you guys think?

I tested the clip from samlap on my BenQ PD2700U screen.

I get the same result, during the playback, there is ugly banding.

But when it doesn't play, it disappear.

I'm on windows 10 (last updates)
RTX 3080 (471.68 Studio drivers)

The thing is, the screens can show perfectly smooth 10 bit colors.. until the playback.

I noticed something, when you scrub slowly on the timeline on the edit page, it doesn't appear, but when you go faster, you see the banding again.

It doesn't appear in the color page BTW, when I move the cursor of the viewer window... BUT when you click on play, banding appears.

here two videos captured with OBS :

on the edit page : https://www.swisstransfer.com/d/979e684 ... 4dd1501529
on the color page : https://www.swisstransfer.com/d/86783e6 ... c39d8f2b47

As we can see, even during the scrubbing, it is different between the color page and the edit page.

I bet it's because Performance Mode is enabled. But it looks worse than I would expect.

Try setting Preferences > User > Playback Settings > Performance mode to Disable.

Performance mode allows smooth playback at the expense of image quality.

I bet it's because Performance Mode is enabled. But it looks worse than I would expect.

Try setting Preferences > User > Playback Settings > Performance mode to Disable.

Putting Performance mode from Automatic to Disable works...
I tested with "manual", the banding disappear with the "Optimized decode quality" is deactivated

Optimized decode "quality"... lol I don't think it optimize the quality in this case

I'm curious to know if this is a bug? Because it acts differently in the color page while scrubbing the video (no banding)

"Optimized" is misleading as it sounds like it gets better. Instead it's optimized for speed over quality. It's not a bug as it's a feature, it's not always visible even with Performance mode enabled depending on the capabilities of your system and the codec used. It doesn't affect rendering. Like I said though, it's a bit more visible than I've seen in the past so something might have changed, it looks worse than 8-bit.

I only have Performance mode enabled on laptops. Workstations don't really need it. If you do need it for editing you can always disable it when grading. Another approach might be to lower the timeline resolution temporarily when editing and keep Performance mode disabled. Then you'll get the full image fidelity but at a lower resolution.

"Optimized" is misleading as it sounds like it gets better. Instead it's optimized for speed over quality. It's not a bug as it's a feature, it's not always visible even with Performance mode enabled depending on the capabilities of your system and the codec used. It doesn't affect rendering. Like I said though, it's a bit more visible than I've seen in the past so something might have changed, it looks worse than 8-bit.

I only have Performance mode enabled on laptops. Workstations don't really need it. If you do need it for editing you can always disable it when grading. Another approach might be to lower the timeline resolution temporarily when editing and keep Performance mode disabled. Then you'll get the full image fidelity but at a lower resolution.

Yeah I was just testing for OP with his original file, to see if I had the same thing...

From the manual :

Performance Mode Automatic/Manual: A trio of radio buttons let you choose between Automatic
(default) and Manual (user selectable) behaviors when you turn on Performance Mode in DaVinci Resolve, or you can turn Performance Mode Off altogether. Set to Automatic, Performance mode automatically optimizes a variety of operations in a bid to balance performance with the necessary level of image quality, for fast onscreen performance while always maintaining the highest level of quality for video output. Set to Manual, there are three different settings you can choose to disable for instances where a particular performance tradeoff Resolve is making results in an undesirably noticeable reduction in image quality in Performance Mode

I get mixed signals from this ahah

I'd pass performance mode these days and rather use proxies where needed.
Optimization for playback is intentionally different in Edit and Color, so you may be able to see your timing for edits, but rather check the image in Color on lesser hardware.

Performance mode has been a bit "funky" for me in the past, so its always turned off for me.

Hey everybody!

I have been super busy lately, but I really wanted to thank you all for your precious help on that matter! As you guys found out (Thanks @Roger.magnusson), the Performance Mode was enabled and led to those visual issues.

Special thanks to you @Maxwellx, you took time to test on your end!

Sam