Best Truly lossless Codec?

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LayneWilson

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Best Truly lossless Codec?

PostFri Oct 22, 2021 3:01 am

I am using da Vinci resolve studio to grade my footage then bring it back to a Premiere Pro timeline.
What Codec can I use to bring it back to premier losslessly?

My footage is all in Cannon RAW graded for Rec2020 HDR I would like to preserve the 12 bit color space.
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Peter Chamberlain

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Re: Best Truly lossless Codec?

PostFri Oct 22, 2021 6:27 am

moved to resolve forum
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TheBloke

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Re: Best Truly lossless Codec?

PostFri Oct 22, 2021 6:41 am

The only truly lossless codecs are the 'Uncompressed' codecs. Files will be absolutely enormous.
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Peter Chamberlain

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Re: Best Truly lossless Codec?

PostFri Oct 22, 2021 7:10 am

Can Ppro read exr or Dpx?
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TheBloke

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Re: Best Truly lossless Codec?

PostFri Oct 22, 2021 7:13 am

I think EXR needs a third-party plugin. But yeah, looks like DPX might work.
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Uli Plank

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Re: Best Truly lossless Codec?

PostFri Oct 22, 2021 8:18 am

But they'll not only be huge, but need massive throughput to run smoothly.
Are you sure you need mathematically lossless or just visually lossless?
Now that the cat #19 is out of the bag, test it as much as you can and use the subforum.

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Frank Engel

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Re: Best Truly lossless Codec?

PostFri Oct 22, 2021 8:51 am

TheBloke wrote:The only truly lossless codecs are the 'Uncompressed' codecs. Files will be absolutely enormous.


In theory, a sequence of individual frames in PNG format would offer lossless compression.
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TheBloke

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Re: Best Truly lossless Codec?

PostFri Oct 22, 2021 8:57 am

Frank Engel wrote:
TheBloke wrote:The only truly lossless codecs are the 'Uncompressed' codecs. Files will be absolutely enormous.


In theory, a sequence of individual frames in PNG format would offer lossless compression.
Yeah you're right. I was thinking the OP just wanted a video codec, but they didn't actually specify that so yeah there's several options for lossless image sequences - EXR, DPX, PNG.

Does Resolve actually support writing PNG sequences though? Fusion Studio and the Fusion page do, via the Saver node, but I didn't think it was an option in Resolve's Deliver page.

I wouldn't use PNG anyway though, it's heavily compressed and is really slow to read and write. Far slower than EXR or DPX, based on some tests I've done in Fusion Studio. It gets a bit better if you lower the compression ratio, but still noticeably slower.
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Hendrik Proosa

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Re: Best Truly lossless Codec?

PostFri Oct 22, 2021 8:58 am

Compression is not directly related to lossiness, there are many mathematically lossless compression algorithms, most basic of them is RLE which insteda of encoding for example 100 zeroes stores that "here we have 100 times 0" which takes about 99% less space but can be expanded value identically.

Mathematically lossless is in practice not very useful for RGB image data, it doesn't matter much if you lose the umpteenth digit after zero.

For video clips prores4444 is good enough for almost anything and if you need image sequences exr (use 16bit half float storage and zip, piz or DWA compression) is the most modern, but as others wrote might not be that well supported in Premiere. Then dpx is next but it it doesn't have that many compression schemas. One possible reason to select dpx over exr is that it can store log data directly (because it is integer based), exr needs linearization for optimal usage of floating point precision.

I'd also suggest keeping away from png, 8bit storage will hammer on your image way more than some lossy compression. Only area where pngs might be useful in some cases is graphics (overlays and whatnot) because it supports alpha channel and doesn't do lossy. For video footage better use some 10bit video codec if originals are 8 or 10bit themselves, prores422/422hq or some DNx variant will do.
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