Help "safely" updating Resolve

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TCP786

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Help "safely" updating Resolve

PostThu Dec 02, 2021 5:20 am

Since I try to avoid updating important software during a project, I'm still using Resolve 17.2.2. However, I'm often seeing screenshots in posts here where there are entirely new or different things on some pages, and I can only imagine there are even more significant differences that aren't visible in the UI. (Maybe even some of the bugs I'm used to working around are fixed!)

I want to consider updating Resolve, but I'm very worried it will break my current project in unpredictable ways. Is it possible to install the most recent version without uninstalling/overwriting the one I'm currently using? I'm assuming this isn't possible, but it's worth asking.

Nevertheless, I am still considering updating anyway and possibly reverting back to this version if something goes wrong, but I have another question here too: Is there any part of my project that might be changed when I open it in the new version of Resolve such that it might become broken if I revert back to 17.2.2 even if all I did was open the project?

And altogether, is there any way to try the new version such that I can completely recover my project in the exact state it's in right now if I need to revert back?

Thanks.
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Shrinivas Ramani

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Re: Help "safely" updating Resolve

PostThu Dec 02, 2021 5:49 am

Hi

In general, we do recommend taking database backups (and/or project exports) every time you make a significant change to the system - including upgrading DaVinci Resolve versions. With these backups, you can revert to older versions and continue working from the backup.

If you already have work done in 17.4.2, you can export a DRP from the 17.4.2 database, revert, and try importing the DRP. In general this is not guaranteed to work, but it's worth a shot. FWIW, I can load 17.4.2 project exports when I revert to 17.3.2 (from an installer I had handy).

Regards
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TCP786

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Re: Help "safely" updating Resolve

PostThu Dec 02, 2021 7:17 am

Thanks you Shrinivas, this is very helpful. I have a few quick clarifying questions if you don't mind, though.

Shrinivas Ramani wrote:If you already have work done in 17.4.2, you can export a DRP from the 17.4.2 database, revert, and try importing the DRP. In general this is not guaranteed to work, but it's worth a shot. FWIW, I can load 17.4.2 project exports when I revert to 17.3.2 (from an installer I had handy).
This is a very good point that I completely would not have considered. Despite the "no guarantee it will work" disclaimer, this could potentially make a huge difference for me since I won't necessarily know if I have an issue until after doing more work. This also gives me another related idea, and I'm curious to see if you have any thoughts on it as well: if I run into an issue with 17.4.2 after getting more work done, maybe instead of reverting straight back to 17.2.2 I should try other versions in backwards order until one of them works. Then I would have at least updated to some slightly newer version. Is there a reason I'm not thinking of that I should avoid doing that?


As far as database backups go, I guess haven't yet had to do anything with databases (or haven't been aware that I should have). What does a database include that a project file doesn't? So far, I've been backing up my project file and the CacheClip/Gallery/Proxy folders. Have been unaware this whole time that I am not sufficiently backing up my projects?
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Uli Plank

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Re: Help "safely" updating Resolve

PostThu Dec 02, 2021 7:30 am

Well, the database contains all your projects. If you only have a handful, exporting the .drp files is just as good, since you can import them into a new, empty database. BTW, you always have a database.
No, an iGPU is not enough, and you can't use HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 in the free version.

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Igor Riđanović

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Re: Help "safely" updating Resolve

PostThu Dec 02, 2021 7:43 am

Partition your system drive, install another copy of the OS and install new Resolve there. That way you will end up with a dual boot system with both old and the new Resolve intact.
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TCP786

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Re: Help "safely" updating Resolve

PostThu Dec 02, 2021 8:08 am

Igor Riđanović wrote:Partition your system drive, install another copy of the OS and install new Resolve there. That way you will end up with a dual boot system with both old and the new Resolve intact.
Despite all the reasons I think I would never do this, I'm still intrigued enough by this idea to consider it. Any idea if the licensing system would consider the second partition to be a different machine? Can you even install an OS (Windows in my case) on two different partitions of the same computer with a single license?
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Uli Plank

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Re: Help "safely" updating Resolve

PostThu Dec 02, 2021 8:25 am

It will be another instance, but you can easily deactivate one of the licenses when you don’t need it anymore. Seems to be more reliable than the automatic deactivation if you need to move it.
No, an iGPU is not enough, and you can't use HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 in the free version.

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TCP786

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Re: Help "safely" updating Resolve

PostThu Dec 02, 2021 9:03 am

Deactivating doesn't necessarily mean uninstalling, right? Assuming I had already made a new OS partition, how many license related steps are there each time I want to go back and forth between versions while I'm in the process of deciding which one I want to use to continue working in?
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Uli Plank

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Re: Help "safely" updating Resolve

PostThu Dec 02, 2021 9:19 am

Not much. You just deactivate one version in the Help menu, reboot into the other one and enter the license when it asks for it. No need to repeat until you switch back again.
No, an iGPU is not enough, and you can't use HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 in the free version.

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TCP786

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Re: Help "safely" updating Resolve

PostThu Dec 02, 2021 9:29 am

Wait, so theoretically I could be doing that between two different computers already? With other software, the multiple install limitation already technically specifies you can only use it on one computer simultaneously. I must have assumed it was the same as all the other software I use and accidentally skimmed that paragraph instead of reading it thoroughly, like I did with the rest of the EULA.
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Re: Help "safely" updating Resolve

PostThu Dec 02, 2021 10:56 am

Activation key license allows use on two installations simultaneously. And both Fusion Studio and Resolve Studio can be running on both machines, as (when installed on the same machine as Resolve), Fusion Studio doesn't require an extra activation.

In the dual-boot install scenario, I have a feeling that if your second drive was a clone of the first, it wouldn't use an extra activation. I've not tested it though.

I've heard that it's possible to install Resolve twice on the same OS installation. Never tested that either, and maybe it depends on OS, but I have heard people say it can work with some manual intervention.
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TCP786

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Re: Help "safely" updating Resolve

PostThu Dec 02, 2021 11:34 am

Some Googling seems to confirm that the license does work differently than other software I'm used to, even though I can't find the EULA itself anywhere for some reason. So, just to make sure I understand you correctly: if I had a client whose project required the full time labor of 6 people, I could subcontract one person in my time zone, two people 8 hours ahead of me, and two more 16 hours ahead, and we could all use one single Studio license if we just "logged out" at the end of the day?

I want to follow that up with "just kidding" but I actually can't find the EULA. It's in a menu somewhere that I just didn't see right? (...right?)
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Re: Help "safely" updating Resolve

PostThu Dec 02, 2021 11:57 am

Only place I could find the EULA is in the installer. And actually no, it seems that according to this, you do NOT have the right to run it on two machines at once:
Code: Select all
This license to use on a single system entitles you to access and use the Software in one, and only one at any time, of the following ways:

 1.1.  You may install the Software on a single computer device for access and use by one end user, at any one time.
And yet, BMD staff clearly state that it's two at once, simultaneously:

Image

Very confusing!

Full EULA:
Code: Select all
Blackmagic Design Pty. Ltd.
License Agreement for DaVinci Resolve

IMPORTANT: Read this before installing this software. This is a legal contract between yourself and Blackmagic Design Pty. Ltd. Before you click on the “Agree” button, it's important you carefully read the terms and conditions of this Agreement. By clicking on the “Agree” button, you are agreeing to be bound by these terms and are becoming a party to this Agreement. If you do not agree to all of the terms, click the “Disagree” button and do not install or use this software.

1.  Subject to the terms of this Agreement and subject to payment of applicable license fees, Blackmagic Design Pty. Ltd. ("Blackmagic Design") hereby grants to you a non-exclusive license to use this software product (the "Software") and accompanying documentation on the terms below. If you were granted a license to the Software with a Blackmagic Design product, such as a camera, your license to use the Software is subject to you retaining ownership of that product and your license is automatically transferred when you sell or transfer ownership of the product. The Software may be used on a single system only, and may be copied for archival purposes, provided any copy must contain all of the original Software's proprietary notices. This license to use on a single system entitles you to access and use the Software in one, and only one at any time, of the following ways:

 1.1.  You may install the Software on a single computer device for access and use by one end user, at any one time.

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TCP786

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Re: Help "safely" updating Resolve

PostThu Dec 02, 2021 12:52 pm

Huh. I mean, to be fair, Peter's description is clear. It's just also clear that it's different than the actual license agreement. I do like that it says "end user" instead of "licensee" though. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure this means they are legally acknowledging that the license holder can let someone else use the software (on the same "virtual machine"? Again, not a lawyer), as long as they aren't both working at the same time. Seems a little more realistic than the usual "don't worry, we know you can't be in two places at once, so feel free to install it on your desktop and your laptop and definitely not only one of them as well as a friend's computer."
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Re: Help "safely" updating Resolve

PostThu Dec 02, 2021 2:43 pm

TCP786 wrote: However, I'm often seeing screenshots in posts here where there are entirely new or different things on some pages, and I can only imagine there are even more significant differences that aren't visible in the UI. (Maybe even some of the bugs I'm used to working around are fixed!)


i am staying on 17.3.2 due to the significant bugs 17.4 introduced.

I have seen 17.4 did may some UI changes, but I couldn't care less about those. 17.4 did add h.265 exports to free on Windows. That is the only real 'feature' I recall them adding.

Some people have reported being unable to downgrade back from 17.4 versions. that the uninstaller/installer weren't working correctly. So I would recommend making a windows restore point first.
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TCP786

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Re: Help "safely" updating Resolve

PostThu Dec 02, 2021 2:51 pm

ZRGARDNE wrote:Some people have reported being unable to downgrade back from 17.4 versions. that the uninstaller/installer weren't working correctly. So I would recommend making a windows restore point first.
Well, that's not very encouraging, but I'm glad you warned me at least. I guess I'll look over the version notes again and see if any of the fixes I want are worth that level of risk.
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Re: Help "safely" updating Resolve

PostThu Dec 02, 2021 2:55 pm

I haven't been doing it lately, but it is (or was) possible -- but advised-against by BMD, and not in any way supported! -- to run two versions of Resolve on the same partition. I was doing this with non-Studio versions, so I'm not sure how the licenses would play out. You also need to ensure that each version is connecting to a different database.

But really, your best and safest course is to make redundant database backups (and/or .drp project backups), so you can revert at any time to the prior version you were using if the update doesn't work as well as you hoped.

Per the reported issue of unable to downgrade from 17.4, no direct knowledge of it, but a restore point likely won't help, or help enough. Fixing it would require manually removing or renaming folders, so a new installation of an earlier version can proceed.
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Igor Riđanović

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Re: Help "safely" updating Resolve

PostThu Dec 02, 2021 10:43 pm

TCP786 wrote:
Igor Riđanović wrote:Partition your system drive, install another copy of the OS and install new Resolve there. That way you will end up with a dual boot system with both old and the new Resolve intact.
Despite all the reasons I think I would never do this, I'm still intrigued enough by this idea to consider it. Any idea if the licensing system would consider the second partition to be a different machine? Can you even install an OS (Windows in my case) on two different partitions of the same computer with a single license?


We only use dongles. I'm not sure how Resolve's software key licensing works.
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Re: Help "safely" updating Resolve

PostThu Dec 02, 2021 11:48 pm

ZRGARDNE wrote:17.4 did add h.265 exports to free on Windows. That is the only real 'feature' I recall them adding.

For users that need it there were several key features added. VST3, DropBox Replay, QuickTime and YouTube chapters, ACES 1.3, Speed Editor multicam switching and more.
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Re: Help "safely" updating Resolve

PostFri Dec 03, 2021 12:19 am

Here is a link to a past discussion from some months about updating from 16 to 17:

Before Upgrading To Resolve 17
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=125045

1) launch Resolve and backup Project Databases using the backup utility

2) export Keyboard Shortcuts

3) export all personal PowerGrades as DPX stills + DRX grades to specific folders (and LUTs if you must)

4) jot down Project Config and User settings (in case those don't make it over)

5) jot down Data Burn-In settings

6) jot down Custom Export settings on Deliver page

7) jot down custom Power Window presets

9) backup 3rd-party/custom LUTs

10) export all custom PowerGrades (with labeled stills) to a folder

11) de-install any 3rd-party OFX plug-ins (BorisFX, Sapphire, Dehancer, Beauty Box, Filmlook, Neat Video, etc.), and have the serial numbers ready when you install the new Resolve.

12) important: backup all current in-progress sessions as DRP files "just in case."

The TL;dr version: back up your current project session files, back up your project database, back up your boot drive if possible (so you could revert back to the old setup), and use caution. In general, the process works very well and is fairly seamless... most of the time.
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TCP786

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Re: Help "safely" updating Resolve

PostFri Dec 03, 2021 12:24 am

I basically don't care about any new features whatsoever. The only reason I'm considering updating during my current project is for bug fixes and QoL improvements. The version notes include some things that seem like they would be helpful to have, but it's feeling less and less likely to be worth it when that would almost certainly mean running into bugs that weren't there before and needing to find new work-arounds for them. At least in this version I'm aware of the most problematic bugs that affect the tools I rely on, and have already figured out ways to avoid them.
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Re: Help "safely" updating Resolve

PostSat Dec 04, 2021 4:01 am

TCP786 wrote:I basically don't care about any new features whatsoever. The only reason I'm considering updating during my current project is for bug fixes and QoL improvements. The version notes include some things that seem like they would be helpful to have, but it's feeling less and less likely to be worth it when that would almost certainly mean running into bugs that weren't there before and needing to find new work-arounds for them. At least in this version I'm aware of the most problematic bugs that affect the tools I rely on, and have already figured out ways to avoid them.

I can report we're running 17.4.2 (build 9) on 3 different Mac OS systems -- 2 on Catalina, 1 on Monterey -- and it's been fairly rock solid so far. On my main system, I've already completed and delivered 2 features in 3 weeks, no major issues. I have encountered some slowdowns on long sessions, like if I've been running for 8-9 hours continuously, but a restart solves the problem. No weird crashes, no life-threatening bugs, nothing. Some of the new features (particularly the OFX plug-ins) are terrific.
marc wielage, csi • VP/color & workflow • chroma | hollywood
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TCP786

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Re: Help "safely" updating Resolve

PostSat Dec 04, 2021 4:07 am

Eh, I'm on Windows and I'm almost done with this project anyway. And I'm already done with everything in Fusion, which is where I was running into the most bugs.
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Re: Help "safely" updating Resolve

PostSat Dec 04, 2021 6:22 am

For a lot of Fusion work, I'd still use the standalone version.
No, an iGPU is not enough, and you can't use HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 in the free version.

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TCP786

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Re: Help "safely" updating Resolve

PostSat Dec 04, 2021 6:39 am

Uli Plank wrote:For a lot of Fusion work, I'd still use the standalone version.
In general I know to do that now, but I kind of only switch over to the standalone when something isn't working properly. What's the best workflow for jumping between Resolve's edit page, Fusion Studio, and then back to the color page? I'm currently using multiple mediaOut notes in the Fusion page so I can have different parts of my image coming into the color page as separate inputs. How does that work with Fusion standalone?
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Re: Help "safely" updating Resolve

PostSat Dec 04, 2021 7:01 am

Either you render media out of Resolve, make a comp that uses that render in Fusion Studio then renders it out to new footage/image sequence, then import that new footage on a timeline in Resolve. Or you make a VFX Connect clip in Resolve that automates the above process.

Either way, there has to be two render steps: one out of Resolve, one out of Fusion Studio.

This video goes over the options, and explores the differences between Resolve Fusion and Fusion Studio:

Resolve Studio 17.4.3 and Fusion Studio 17.4.3 on macOS 11.6.1

Hackintosh:: X299, Intel i9-10980XE, 128GB DDR4, AMD 6900XT 16GB
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Re: Help "safely" updating Resolve

PostSat Dec 04, 2021 7:03 am

Ok. Seems like a much more time consuming workflow, since I don't think the computer I'm using would be too happy with me trying to run both at once. I'm already under spec for using Fusion to begin with.

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