Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

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jamedia

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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostWed Dec 08, 2021 8:25 pm

stesin wrote:
jamedia wrote:Have you ever run the Linux Kernel though a static analyser?
No I didn't. Though if you are so skilled, did you run Window$ kernel through a static analyzer? How about FreeBSD? RSX-11M+ maybe?.


The Windows source I don't have direct access to but it is checked in MS. FreeBSD was run though static analysers.
All other ROTS I use I do run static analysis on because I have the source. How else do you validate any software?

As you have the source for the Linux Kernel you really should check it. Try running a MISRA-C check on it (it will fail).
The Linux ecosystem isn't robust according to Linus Torvold but what does he know?
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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostWed Dec 08, 2021 8:34 pm

So little love for the Raspberry Pi in this thread :-)
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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostWed Dec 08, 2021 9:08 pm

Kyrad777 wrote:I'm a DIT for film and TV Production.

I have the first Gen MacbookPro M1 system ( 16GB ). Using Resolve, I can edit BRAW, Prores and MP4 Files like they are nothing. With BRAW, I am running native resolution out to a OLED reference monitor VIA a Ultrastudio 4K Mini. With one Thunderbolt 3 cable ( TB3 has 4 PCIe lanes, TB4 has only 1 ) going to a CalDigit TS3+ ( not sponsored ) I can access the data from a raid drive, and output to the Ultrastudio without any hiccups, and its far from saturating the TB Buss. All this while charging the laptop.


In short, I don't even think about a windows system anymore. ( I used to be a hardcore PC person ).

Also, Prores is my go to output format, and even though windows can create Prores files, but Its just not the same.

I would ABSOLUTELY go with the M1 system with the Max ram. Just my 2 Cents.


We had Resolve running on a MBP for awhile (pre-M1 days). Eventually, the MBP started having all kinds of problems so severe the support ticket got way up the support chain at Apple, who finally admitted they could not fix it. The senior tech support guy told us directly that we should not be using a MBP for Resolve, but a desktop Mac, because the strain on the system basically cooked it. That MBP had to be thrown out.

Maybe with BRAW and M1 things are better? I can see using the MBP for DIT or field editing, or for hobby use. We have to deliver for our clients, and pick the right gear for the right job. We no longer trust Apple for mission critical hardware.
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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostWed Dec 08, 2021 9:21 pm

M1 machines are something totally different to Intel crap.
You can now do light work in Resolve for 1h without hearing any fan spinning at all.
On Intel opening Resolve itself spins fans :lol:
We are talking about 2 different worlds of thermal management.
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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostThu Dec 09, 2021 3:34 am

Second that. My Intel iMac was always getting noisy when working with Resolve and still cooking at around 100 degrees (Celsius), sometimes 105. That's not good for any electronics.
My new M1 Pro laptop is not getting hotter than 75 and even then, the fans are hardly audible.
A Windows Laptop with the same computing power sounds like a vacuum cleaner on your lap.
No, an iGPU is not enough, and you can't use HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 in the free version.

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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostThu Dec 09, 2021 6:12 am

Kyrad777 wrote:In short, I don't even think about a windows system anymore. ( I used to be a hardcore PC person ).

Also, Prores is my go to output format, and even though windows can create Prores files, but Its just not the same.

I would ABSOLUTELY go with the M1 system with the Max ram. Just my 2 Cents.
As of mine, I just have a strong preference for desktop over laptops. So I'll wait a while until Apple will announce their new-gen M1 based desktop product line (spring 2022?). And when a dust will settle, I'll make my choice between either new-gen desktop Mac or a custom-built PC running some decent Nvidia GPU and some flavor of Linux (most probably, Ubuntu or Debian) LTS release. Window$ is not an option at all.

I have some gut feeling that a PC will be a better bang for the buck even considering a good pricey new color-aware monitor. But Mac will be better from the electricity consumption perspective. Let's wait a bit...
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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostThu Dec 09, 2021 6:58 am

jamedia wrote:As you have the source for the Linux Kernel you really should check it. Try running a MISRA-C check on it (it will fail).
This is sad to know, but... I can live with it, while it works for me and runs my DaVinci Resolve Studio and darktable software well.
The Linux ecosystem isn't robust according to Linus Torvold but what does he know?
Actually I am not sure about Linus' own experience of day-to-day managing a network of 100+ Window$ servers and 500+ Window$ workplaces spread over a number of geographically distant locations. From my experience, the Debian ecosystem is much less painful and risky to stay in. Apple ecosystem is a whole different story, with its own (strong!) advantages but with its cons, too. The question is about comparative TCO from (and including) the moment of hardware and software purchase, initial installation and setup of the system, and through 5-7 years of its lifetime (including support, subscriptions, service and repair, software versions upgrades, security incidents costs, hardware failures costs, electricity costs, "just in time" availability of security updates and bug fixes etc). And we are speaking of a specific use case, namely a single-purpose workstation for DaVinci Resolve Studio and a few supporting applications, aren't we?

For this exact purpose, the only real advantage of Window$ is availability of paid plugins for DVR. Everything else is a bunch of disadvantages because of Window$ bloatware nature + "update" disastrous behaviour + instant security nightmare. Who needs an OS which tends to consume 1/3 of your hardware processing power, RAM and disk space just for its own hidden purposes + unsolicited bells&whistles, but not for the user's productive needs?

How many hundreds of thousands of man-hours were spent worldwide when the user needs to perform his work ASAP but the unsolicited "update" unexpectedly froze the system - or destroyed it completely so needed to be reinstalled from scratch? No thanks, I'm done with it.
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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostThu Dec 09, 2021 11:15 am

Windows and it’s updates= constant waste of time trying to fix what they broke.
If you can just turn them off and do controlled updates.
Somehow Chromebook can deliver same internet browsing experience as Windows but on 3x less powerful hardware.
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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostThu Dec 09, 2021 11:28 am

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:Windows and it’s updates= constant waste of time trying to fix what they broke.
If you can just turn them off and do controlled updates.
Somehow Chromebook can deliver same internet browsing experience as Windows but on 3x less powerful hardware.
DaVinci Resolve on a Chromebook? I think this configuration is not supported :)
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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostThu Dec 09, 2021 12:08 pm

Yet :lol:
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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostThu Dec 09, 2021 12:15 pm

Andrew Kolakowski wrote: If you can just turn them off and do controlled updates.


Hi

In Windows 10 Pro you can pause Updates for up to 35 days from today.

Later you can extend it by clicking 'Pause updates for 7 days'. It gives 7 days for each click.

Here is a link with more ways:

https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/5-ways-te ... indows-10/

Regards Carsten.
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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostThu Dec 09, 2021 12:19 pm

You can turn them off for good which is my preferred way.
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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostThu Dec 09, 2021 12:55 pm

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:You can turn them off for good which is my preferred way.
This does not help against the bloatware nature of the OS. It ultimately brings far too many unsolicited and (in fact) malicious pieces of code with it (and silently runs it in the background, wasting your paid computing resources and disk space, spying on you and attracting security risks). No, never again.

p.s. I am aware of some "homebrew" unofficial builds of Window$ custom installers which have the majority of bloatware eliminated and the winupdate disabled. But then all of a sudden the next security update or bugfix arrive, you install it manually, the beast does a self-check, and voila! all the crap is back on your head again.

If only there was the "Micro" edition (not "home", not "pro") with just the kernel, GUI and the minimum minimorum set of basic utilities, and manual updates only. But with my experience with it since windows 1.0 (yup, not 3.0 but 1.0, where GUI windows couldn't overlap) I just don't trust it no matter what.
Last edited by stesin on Thu Dec 09, 2021 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostThu Dec 09, 2021 1:10 pm

stesin wrote:This does not help against the bloatware nature of the OS. It ultimately brings too many unsolicited and (in fact) malicious pieces of code (and silently runs it in the background, wasting your paid computing resources and disk space, spying on you and attracting security risks). No, never again.


This is a good description of Linux
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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostThu Dec 09, 2021 1:19 pm

jamedia wrote:This is a good description of Linux
Really? Linux is just a kernel. What you are speaking of is probably one of the numerous "distributions" who claims being "user friendly" (thus, windows-like). And even then, I can strip all unsolicited crap away with a few commands in minutes and forget it forever.

If you don't like it, don't use it. For me, DVRS on Linux is perfectly usable, while on windows it needs much more hardware resources to run at the same speed. YMMV and let's avoid religious dispute. Use whatever you are comfortable with.
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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostThu Dec 09, 2021 1:27 pm

stesin wrote:
jamedia wrote:This is a good description of Linux
Really? Linux is just a kernel. What you are speaking of is probably one of the numerous "distributions". And even then, I can strip all unsolicited crap away with a few commands in minutes.


The Linux Kernel is a mess. Also it has had malware added to it and state actors messing with it. They found multiple ghost accounts of people adding patches to the Linux Kernel.

As for distributions DVR works on Cantos (not guaranteed on any other) but Centos has gone EOL and will be obsolete by 2024. The problem with Linux is there are very many distributions that come and go. It is a real mess

I can dig out the video of Linus explaining why Linux is unsuitable as a desktop OS it was only a couple of years ago.
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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostThu Dec 09, 2021 1:46 pm

Malware inside the Linux kernel? Present right now? Can you clarify, please?

Regarding distributions, with the help of makeresolvedeb script from Daniel Tufvesson, DVR runs smoothly on any *Ubuntu or Debian kind of distributions. So no problem at all.
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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostThu Dec 09, 2021 1:48 pm

stesin wrote:
Andrew Kolakowski wrote:You can turn them off for good which is my preferred way.
This does not help against the bloatware nature of the OS. It ultimately brings far too many unsolicited and (in fact) malicious pieces of code with it (and silently runs it in the background, wasting your paid computing resources and disk space, spying on you and attracting security risks). No, never again.

p.s. I am aware of some "homebrew" unofficial builds of Window$ custom installers which have the majority of bloatware eliminated and the winupdate disabled. But then all of a sudden the next security update or bugfix arrive, you install it manually, the beast does a self-check, and voila! all the crap is back on your head again.

If only there was the "Micro" edition (not "home", not "pro") with just the kernel, GUI and the minimum minimorum set of basic utilities, and manual updates only. But with my experience with it since windows 1.0 (yup, not 3.0 but 1.0, where GUI windows couldn't overlap) I just don't trust it no matter what.


I had those issues when update turned on some crap which I disabled earlier. This is why I turned updates off and don't really install them (those are node machines without real user interactions).
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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostThu Dec 09, 2021 2:03 pm

That's why (going back to OP's question) I am saying that in case he will choose on PC (not Mac) then Window$ is not the best option. IMHO.

Also, I think BMD should decide on dropping support for an ancient CentOS and chose the most popular and widespread Linux distro to be officially supported. To date this is Ubuntu and derivatives (LTS releases, 22.04 is coming soon) and Debian LTS releases.

Look at Nvidia. They support *Ubuntu/Debian natively with their driver pack, so nothing is really so hard.
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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostThu Dec 09, 2021 2:19 pm

For long time Centos was the way to go for enterprise as far as I understand. Now it will have to change (eg. Flame requires Centos as well).
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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostThu Dec 09, 2021 3:22 pm

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:For long time Centos was the way to go for enterprise as far as I understand. Now it will have to change (eg. Flame requires Centos as well).
I didn't read the recent stats, but I have a feeling that Ubuntu server has the largest share in enterprise segment today. But we are speaking on the workstation segment (not desktop, not server). So I don't really know.

BTW for a workstation, you can install the very minimal, clean, almost barebones Ubuntu or Debian server first. Than add the minimal desktop environment to it (the one which supports color management and display profiling/calibration out of the box). Add Nvidia proprietary drivers, switch off auto scanning for software updates, and you get the clean minimal setup for a single-purpose workstation.
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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostThu Dec 09, 2021 3:27 pm

Centos requirement will be for those "old" expensive post tools like Flame were they can't be bothered to switch to something new :) Resolve use to be one of them. With Flame everything has to be as Autodesk says or you won't get any help at all. Sometimes it makes sense, sometimes it's more a joke.
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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostThu Dec 09, 2021 3:56 pm

Ok, given a fresh new PC box, you can try Linux with DVR on it. If you don't like this setup, you can just wipe Linux away, install Windows and go that way. You can even have both OSes on the same box, booting this or that one to taste. I was keeping Windows on my disks (being able to choose what to boot) until I realized that 1+ year have passed since my last windows boot. I've booted windows just to refresh it with updates and patches, than after two hours of downloading and installing updates it rebooted... And wasn't able to boot back again. I wiped it away and got a free HDD in return :)
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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostThu Dec 09, 2021 5:21 pm

stesin wrote:... And wasn't able to boot back again. I wiped it away and got a free HDD in return :)

This is one of those amazing Windows features :)
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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostThu Dec 09, 2021 8:11 pm

Yet again... Just a fresh one works in any Window$ installation including server-2022 - God save me from window$
The best workaround available at the time of writing this, is to wait for Microsoft to release a security patch. Due to the complexity of this vulnerability, any attempt to patch the binary directly will break Windows Installer. So you'd better wait and see how/if Microsoft will screw the patch up again.
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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostFri Dec 10, 2021 9:14 am

[quote="stesin"]Yet again... Just a fresh one works in any Window$ installation including server-2022 - God save me from window$[quote]

We get that you are blindly a Linuc fanboy However you are recommencing two "flavor of the month" Linux that BDM don't support, The supported Linux is, like the majority of Linux distributions is going obsolete and unsupported. RedHat would be the best choice if you have to use one as they do a more robust distribution. And they have a good track record.

This is one of the reasons why Linus Torvold says Linux is unstable as a Desktop Operating system. There are hundreds of different current distributions. There are more obsolete and unsupported distributions than there are current ones. New distributions come and go all the time. The Kernel has been compromised by patches more than once and is a mess. (MS did discover religion and have improved the structure and their code quality. )

As for updates both Apple and Microsoft had a solid update system that works. It patches any security threats quickly . the same is not true of Linux. This is because the distributions have uncontrolled software from all over the place, but of it untested and not validated. For all their (many) faults MS and Apple do control the software in the OS and do test it. It has been noted, more than once that Linux is fixing bugs that were well known and fixed in UNIX 20-30 years ago.

IT is extremely easy to get malware into most Linux distributions and even the kernel. This came to light some months ago. They also found several ghost contributors who were though tot be state actors. You could do the same at MS or Apple but is it far more difficult and less likely.
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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostFri Dec 10, 2021 12:11 pm

jamedia wrote:We get that you are blindly a Linuc fanboy
No, you've missed the point. Actually, I am FreeBSD fanboy since 1993 :)
RedHat would be the best choice if you have to use one as they do a more robust distribution.
CentOS AFAIK is a Red Hat flavour, and as of now, I'm not sure about how massive their share of the user base worldwide is. (Oracle Linux AFAIK is a Red Hat derivative, too; probably IBM Linux also is). Where you are definitely correct is the fact that in the corporate & enterprise environment, Red Hat and its derivatives are historically and traditionally the distro of choice.

So if BMD keeps its target at the enterprise market, their choice is perfectly logical. But is it the "best" choice? It depends on what are the goals of BMD's product management. BTW I don't really care about what exact distro is their supported favourite, as long as it a) receives updates and patches without delays, b) is not obsolete.

If BMD will choose to support any up-to-date LTS version of any non-obsolete distro, I will be Ok with that no matter what the distro name and flavour is.

...offtopic skipped...
As for updates both Apple and Microsoft had a solid update system that works.
While I agree about Apple, your belief in micro$oft update makes me shrug, this is against the obvious and contradicts the personal experience of millions of users. But this is up to you.
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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostFri Dec 10, 2021 1:37 pm

jamedia wrote:We get that you are blindly a Linux fanboy
No, you've missed the point. Actually, I am FreeBSD fanboy since 1993 :)

FreeBSD is a UNIX and that is not the same as Linux, completely different animals.

stesin wrote:
jamedia"RedHat would be the best choice if you have to use one as they do a more robust distribution.
CentOS AFAIK is a Red Hat flavour, and as of now, C
Yes and they have killed it. It went from a 10 year EOL notification to a 2year EOL AFAIK.

[quote="stesin wrote:I'm not sure about how massive their share of the user base worldwide is.

Last week? this week,?next month? next year? The problem is the many 100s of Linux distros come and go and are ever changing. As does their contents and drivers.

stesin wrote:(Oracle Linux AFAIK is a Red Hat derivative, too; probably IBM Linux also is).

So people really have no idea where their OS code comes from... no idea at all.

stesin wrote: Where you are definitely correct is the fact that in the corporate & enterprise environment, Red Hat and its derivatives are historically and traditionally the distro of choice.

So that would make RedHat more sense than debian or ubunto for BMD[/quote]

So now you are dependent on various hardware companies like IBM....

stesin wrote: So if BMD keeps its target at the enterprise market, their choice is perfectly logical. But is it the "best" choice? It depends on what are the goals of BMD's product management. BTW I don't really care about what exact distro is their supported favourite, as long as it a) receives updates and patches without delays, b) is not obsolete..If BMD will choose to support any up-to-date LTS version of any non-obsolete distro, I will be Ok with that no matter what the distro name and flavour is.

So now you want updates but the problem is that any updates for Linux are if and when someone feels like doing it. Also the quality and testing is variable.

stesin wrote: As for updates both Apple and Microsoft had a solid update system that works.
While I agree about Apple, your belief in micro$oft update makes me shrug, this is against the obvious and contradicts the personal experience of millions of users. But this is up to you.


The Apple and MS upstate processes are similar. Though as Apple have a stranglehold on the hardware and software they can and do anything they fancy. As has been seen with several updates.
Linux on the other hand may or may not get updates and they will be of varying quality.

Your pathological hatred of Windows seems to be coloring everything you write. As I have done over three decades of critical systems engineering I have to work on reality. Linux is fun and I have used it quite a bit. However I would not use it for anything critical. I would use a UNIX or an RTOS,
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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostFri Dec 10, 2021 10:40 pm

I almost forgot to mention. I just completed DIT work on a film that shot in 4.6K BRAW. The original M1 handles it like butter with ZERO lag in Resolve ( media coming from a fast striped 2 disk 36TB raid via USB-C ). There are a couple of openFX plugins that can slow it down, but unless you have a GTX2080 or better ( or ATI Equivalent - I haven't been keeping up with ATI - Sorry ) you wont see much of an improvement. And even then, its only about 15-20% of plugins that will be accelerated faster than the M1.
That being said, I totally understand why some people don't like apple. I have a 2009 MacPro that has been modified to keep up with current systems. The only way this was possible was that the hacking community figured out how to update the System Firmware to speed up the PCIe slots from2.5X to 5X. if I hadnt done this, it would not have even remotely worked for my needs.

For me it comes down to the $$$ you are willing to invest. There are some freaking amazing windows systems out there, but finding High quality GPU's right now ( like Founders editions ) is like pulling teeth. I wouldn't trust lesser cards for mission critical applications. ( Some of the Power rail delivery designs on non- founders edition cards lack capacitor capacity and can cause power rails to brown out, and then errors and crashes start happening, or they combine rails to save costs and then ripple and noise can do the same. ) If you have intermittent crashing, errors or lockups, this is one of three main issues that can happen. Other issues can be not using ECC Memory, and a low quality/under powered power supply.

For reference, I use a dual conversion power supply on all my systems ALL THE TIME. The computer only sees a perfectly clean sine wave with no Power factor or other noise issues. ( Not a UPS, a true dual conversion power supply. AC to high current DC, then to a high performance inverter running full time ) My MacPro has not crashed or locked up in the last 3 years. ( I'm excluding a bad premiere update that caused all sorts of issues a couple years ago, I rolled back to the previous version and it all straightened out. )

Both systems work great, it just depends on the user preference and component choices.

I work as a location DIT and high processing power and low Wattage draw is a must on location. But even when I get home, the M1 is my go too. I am definitely a "Power User" on the high end of the scale but i'm not doing heavy VFX work. For this reason I get why windows systems are desired.
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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostThu Dec 30, 2021 1:12 am

The principle alone regarding Apple safeguarding their environment from independent/personal repair and even threatening legal action against those who repair their own devices should be enough to chase people away. Then go with numerous design flaws over the years they always somehow blamed on the user (you are holding the phone wrong, you didn't clean your keyboard, you should have replaced your phone by now, you misplaced your files). My wife lost every one of her files on her Macbook after updating the OS--everything turned into aliases. This, of course, was "her fault" when she called about it. Threads regarding the same issue tend to disappear quickly from the Apple forums whenever they crop up.

An Apple can be a great performing machine and they sure can look pretty. Plus they give you a LOT of street cred. Or, you can be someone who "should have bought AppleCare." Maybe you will be one of the people who bought a $5,000 monitor from them, then needed a $999 monitor stand. Then its your fault all the screws stripped off into the monitor because they are made of magnesium instead of any sensible material screws could be made out of.

The way Apple has held onto customers in spite of all this just confounds the senses. I recommend building your own computer out of parts you've researched, especially if your income depends on it.
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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostThu Dec 30, 2021 4:10 pm

You are right, one should never trust a computer. Any computer. Even one under remote-control by the other big company. Unfortunately. the only system not controlled by big money has its own problems.
I just wish the OP luck for the decision.
Last edited by Uli Plank on Thu Dec 30, 2021 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
No, an iGPU is not enough, and you can't use HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 in the free version.

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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostThu Dec 30, 2021 4:12 pm

Uli Plank wrote:You are right, one should not trust a computer. Any computer. Even one remote controlled by the other big company.
I just wish the OP luck for the decision.


So what computer can you trust?
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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostThu Dec 30, 2021 4:20 pm

Only one you built and programmed yourself. My first computer was a CP/M machine I built myself.

Unfortunately, those times are long gone. I have been working with PCs and Macs, and for me, Macs are more reliable for Resolve. But before we start one of those foolish religious wars here, I simply make enough money to buy an Apple and I have less unproductive downtime with it.
But that's sheer luck, of course your computer (whatever it may be) is better than mine. Congrats.
No, an iGPU is not enough, and you can't use HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 in the free version.

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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostThu Dec 30, 2021 4:24 pm

Uli Plank wrote:Only one you built and programmed yourself. My first computer was a CP/M machine I built myself.

That doesn't help. Unless you went though the CPM line by line to check it.
I also build computers from scratch. However like your CPM machine none of them wil run resolve of even office.

If you mean building "a PC" type computer by putting sub assemblies together and dropping on an OS that doesn't help either.
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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostThu Dec 30, 2021 4:40 pm

DocChamberlain wrote:
The way Apple has held onto customers in spite of all this just confounds the senses. I recommend building your own computer out of parts you've researched, especially if your income depends on it.

Parts separately may be great, but they need to work together. You can build machine based on best parts, yet have 0 guarantee it will work well as a whole ( I builded many in the past). You also need a knowledge and time and this is what most home users don't have.

Apple keeps their customers (despite of all problems and pricing) as they have nothing better to choose. If they had Apple would already loose most of their customers.
Try eg. MS Surface- it should be equivalent of MacBook. Good luck with it :lol: Piece of crap.

You, as a person who can build own machine, should know perfectly that important files need everyday backup as every storage can fail at ANY moment. It's simple rule and unrelated to Mac or PC etc. Doesn't Apple warn you about it during updates etc. ? Of course it's Apple's facxxx, but it's yours as well. You need to be smatter than them. Nothing is perfect- old 13inch MacBooks are great, where later (thiner ones) are not so great (and keyboard is crap). Latest models seems to be back to better shape and Apple silicone shines.
Last edited by Andrew Kolakowski on Thu Dec 30, 2021 4:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostThu Dec 30, 2021 4:46 pm

I'll keep this post short and to the point. If you want a well built PC desktop system tailored for Resolve, call Puget Systems. You won't be disappointed.
https://www.pugetsystems.com/
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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostThu Dec 30, 2021 5:19 pm

Ours has been running perfectly since we got it a year ago. Highly recommend Puget.
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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostThu Dec 30, 2021 6:23 pm

In the UK I can recommend https://www.chillblast.com/

These days it is rarely worth building a PC yourself unless you have all the bits tohand and time.
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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostFri Dec 31, 2021 2:47 am

jamedia wrote:
Uli Plank wrote:Only one you built and programmed yourself. My first computer was a CP/M machine I built myself.

That doesn't help. Unless you went though the CPM line by line to check it.
I also build computers from scratch. However like your CPM machine none of them wil run resolve of even office.


I hoped my irony was shining through ;-)
BTW, it's called CP/M and while I didn't go through it line by line, I made some modifications.
But that was Stone Age.

To get back to subject:
I second (or third) having a PC purposely built for Resolve if you need a desktop right now and are not experienced enough to do it by yourself.
It's a Mac M1 laptop for me if it needs to be mobile. See, I don't pray to one church only.
No, an iGPU is not enough, and you can't use HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 in the free version.

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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostFri Dec 31, 2021 6:47 am

If you are in Europe looking for a 3090 based build now and actually available. Check these out:

https://www.hp.com/de-de/shop/product.a ... BD&sel=DTP

Yes, you need to add memory and SSDs. But think this hard to beat. I paid 2800 Eur for my 3090 alone beginning of 2021 on ebay.
5950x, 3090, 128GB.
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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostFri Dec 31, 2021 7:46 am

It seems that HP took care of stock in time. Just like Toyota did for car chips, it seems. We bought a new Toyota with full assistance system and they delivered in less than two weeks.
Nobody else could. Reading the signs early enough is paying off.
No, an iGPU is not enough, and you can't use HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 in the free version.

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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostFri Dec 31, 2021 11:02 am

Not so sure about Toyota. You wait 3+ months in Europe.
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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostSat Jan 01, 2022 2:31 am

This is Asia. But then, we first asked Mazda (I like their cars), but they said 5 months.
Sorry for the OT.
No, an iGPU is not enough, and you can't use HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 in the free version.

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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostSat Jan 01, 2022 6:31 pm

If you shoot Canon RAW, then all you need, if you want to not spend a lot of money, is a MacMini 16GB M1: If you set the time line to 1080 for viewing you can edit completely smoothly 12bit 8K RAW clips with no proxies or transcoding. You can then render at any resolution, including of course 8K. This video was edited using DaVinci Studio 17 on the MacMini. It has digital pan and zoom, digital crop, sharpening, white balance adjustments, luminance adjustments, saturation adjustments, and rendered in 4K:



or



Rendering takes a while, but who cares about that.
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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostSat Jan 01, 2022 9:00 pm

I am currently working with a notebook under Windows 11. CPU = AMD Ryzen 7 5800 with 64GB RAM, graphics card = NVIDIA RTX3060 with 6GB VideoRAM, two M.2 SSD (1.4GB read / write). The system cost me almost 2000 euros. I think for the price you will get a very good desktop system with similar or better features.
At the moment I'm cutting a 2k7 video from 2 GoPros (videos are displayed in PiP) with a total length of 1:15 hours - it is rendered as MOV with H265 codec - in 29 minutes!
My PC with an older i7 and an NVIDIA GTX1660Ti needs 1:30 for this .... An "office PC" with a current i5 but without a dedicated graphics card would render for 26 hours ...
So I am quite satisfied with the equipment of my notebook and I think that a Desktop-PC with similar hardware will meet the requirements at the price mentioned above.
The OS is imho secondary - the hardware is crucial for the performance ... And a decent Apple M1 doesn't start below 4000 € ... (at least I don't find a cheaper one - and then there is only one Intel chip in there and not even DDR5 memory ... ).
Regards
Oliver

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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostSun Jan 02, 2022 1:50 am

Well, that laptop should be good for HD, but if you try UHD, you'll soon run into limits because of VRAM. No way you could do what my M1 laptop does: it can play 12K BRAW in an UHD timeline.
Mine didn't cost over 4K€, just a bit over 3K. And it has no Intel chip at all, neither does it have conventional RAM. It's a very different concept.

But as I wrote before: those 3K+ would be a waste if all you need is a desktop. Since Apple has no new desktop machine yet, I'd get a PC if portability isn't needed, but UHD or beyond.
No, an iGPU is not enough, and you can't use HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 in the free version.

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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostSun Jan 02, 2022 4:07 am

OliverZ wrote:I am currently working with a notebook under Windows 11. CPU = AMD Ryzen 7 5800 with 64GB RAM, graphics card = NVIDIA RTX3060 with 6GB VideoRAM, two M.2 SSD (1.4GB read / write). The system cost me almost 2000 euros. I think for the price you will get a very good desktop system with similar or better features.
At the moment I'm cutting a 2k7 video from 2 GoPros (videos are displayed in PiP) with a total length of 1:15 hours - it is rendered as MOV with H265 codec - in 29 minutes!
My PC with an older i7 and an NVIDIA GTX1660Ti needs 1:30 for this .... An "office PC" with a current i5 but without a dedicated graphics card would render for 26 hours ...
So I am quite satisfied with the equipment of my notebook and I think that a Desktop-PC with similar hardware will meet the requirements at the price mentioned above.
The OS is imho secondary - the hardware is crucial for the performance ... And a decent Apple M1 doesn't start below 4000 € ... (at least I don't find a cheaper one - and then there is only one Intel chip in there and not even DDR5 memory ... ).


PC users seem to be confused about Apple M1 computers. On a $899 16 GB MacMini M1 or even a MacBook Air notebook computer I can easily edit GoPro 5.3K 60P H265 video clips right on the timeline. Render times are the least important aspect, it is what you can edit with no lost frames on the timeline with intensive digital manipulations. The M1 chip decodes and encodes H265 videos (even those that are 10bit 422) in hardware. Memory is unified, there are no messages about GPU memory inadequacies. And of course the more expensive M1 Pro an M1 Max chips can go even faster.

Lots of digital manipulation in post of 5.3K 60P clips, rendered in 5K 60P, on a MacBook mini M1:

Mark Rosenzweig
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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostSun Jan 02, 2022 8:28 am

Kinda funny these comments, that noone cares about render time. If this is only your hobby and you don't need the machine to work, maybe you don't care. Anyone else surly does.
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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostSun Jan 02, 2022 9:43 am

markr041 wrote:I can easily edit GoPro 5.3K 60P H265 video clips right on the timeline

That's nice!
But is that really necessary? For editing on the timeline, an SD resolution is enough for me and then editing is just as fluid.
markr041 wrote:Render times are the least important aspect

Really?! So you don't care if you need 30 minutes or 20 hours to render the video? So not me :P
Not even if I'm "just" doing it as a hobby ...
Just so that's clear - because once again it seems like this is about Apple vs. PC:
I'm not saying that Apple is worse than a PC - a decent device with the appropriate hardware has its price. Only Apple seems to be a lot more expensive in comparison (at least here in AT).
It seems to me like "if you do video / image processing, then you just use an Apple" - why? "Well because you just use it"! Is there a real reason too? is that better / faster? Can I do more with it than with a Linux / Windows PC?
"Apple has always been used for video / image processing - everyone knows!"
Yes is OK ....
Regards
Oliver

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Re: Looking to buy a "new" editing machine - M1 or PC?

PostSun Jan 02, 2022 11:50 am

Because you buy Mac and it works. Have you owned Mac? M1 platforms go even further and within time those machines should get into amazing stability ( unless Apple fuxxx something).
You buy a random PC ( desktop or laptop) and you it’s not so obvious. Even Resolve itself is way more stable on Mac. Macs are not problems free but they are less problematic for sure. It’s not some flashy/fancy trend anymore. It’s a plain simple reason behind it which is reliability of machine as a whole.
Busy people don’t want to fight with their machines- they want to turn them on and work. Many can afford price markup, so for them price is not an argument. If you take life of 2 generations, Mac is not necessarily more expensive at all as you can sell your eg. 3 years old one for very good money and buy new one.

Problem atm is lack of Mac Mx desktops, but they should come at some point.
It’s not Pc vs Mac or Linux etc. It’s about final user experience.
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