New system - AMD or INTEL?

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OliverZ

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New system - AMD or INTEL?

PostWed Jan 05, 2022 1:49 pm

First of all, - no, I don't want an apple!

Since my PC with its CPU i7-5820K is getting on in years, I want something new.
The only question that arises is an AMD system with:
- AMD Ryzen 9 5950X
- 128GB DDR4 RAM
- MSI MEG X570 UNIFY, mainboard
- SAMSUNG 980 PRO 2 TB, SSD

or

- INTEL i9 12900K
- 128GB DDR5 RAM
- GIGABYTE Z690 UD AX, mainboard
- SAMSUNG 980 PRO 2 TB, SSD

Both would get an NVIDIA RTX3090 (with 24GB Video-RAM).

Since AMD is now throwing a new CPU (https://www.amd.com/en/product/11576) onto the market, which is "only" intended as an upgrade for AM4 sockets and therefore only supports DDR4 RAM, this is it now imho no alternative to the Ryzen 5950X ...

Your opinion - which is the better choice for Resolve?
Regards
Oliver

PC: W10p64 (21H2), i7-5820k, 32GB, GTX1660Ti (6GB), 2x1TB M.2, 1x4TB SSD
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peterjackson

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Re: New system - AMD or INTEL?

PostWed Jan 05, 2022 2:18 pm

If H265 4:2:2 footage Intel, else AMD. I'd use an Gigabyte Mainboard, as these support ECC memory. Using 128GB Micron ECC RAM myself.
5950x, 3090, 128GB.
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Carsten Sellberg

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Re: New system - AMD or INTEL?

PostWed Jan 05, 2022 3:14 pm

OliverZ wrote: Your opinion - which is the better choice for Resolve?


Hi.

It depend on several factors, including how long can you wait?

The current top RTX 3090 is produced at Samsung on a 8nm process node. What actually is a improved 10nm node.

'Nvidia Lovelace GPUs booked in as TSMC 5nm parts' according to this and many other links:

https://hexus.net/tech/news/industry/14 ... 5nm-parts/

From 10nm to TSMC's 5nm is two full nodes. I don't know what kind of improvement you will get. But the rumors expect a huge increase in performance from the current RTX 3090 to the RTX 4090. If you don't need all that kind of performance, can you always buy a cheaper RTX 4080. And then you will have the possibility to upgrade later, if needed.

I don't know if you will consider a Threadripper? Here is a link for the Threadripper Pro with up to
128 cores / 256 threads pr Workstation:

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/speci ... 0wx-leaked


But if you need it now, will it depend on what codec you are using. Here is a link to 'What H.264 and
H.265 Hardware Decoding is Supported in DaVinci Resolve Studio?'

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/artic ... udio-2122/

As you can se in above link, has Intel 11th Gen and 12th Gen CPU's support for 10 and 12 bit Hardware Decoding in DaVinci Resolve Studio.

And here are some links I used an an another thread:

But buy HP Desktop system, incl. RTX 30xx Graphic card. This way you pay much less for your coming Graphics card.

Here is a US link from $2899.99 incl a RTX 3090 24 MB:

https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/Configure ... quantity=1

And a German link to 3559,72 € incl a RTX 3090 24 MB::

https://www.hp.com/de-de/shop/product.a ... BD&sel=DTP

So if you find a nice offer for a complete preassembled Desktop with a good Total price , will I
recommend you to find out if it already have, or can be delivered with a Intel 11th Gen and 12th Gen CPU with support for 10 and 12 bit Hardware Decoding in DaVinci Resolve Studio.

Regards Carsten.
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OliverZ

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Re: New system - AMD or INTEL?

PostWed Jan 05, 2022 5:12 pm

Thank you for your input.
Regards
Oliver

PC: W10p64 (21H2), i7-5820k, 32GB, GTX1660Ti (6GB), 2x1TB M.2, 1x4TB SSD
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Dan Sherman

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Re: New system - AMD or INTEL?

PostWed Jan 05, 2022 5:45 pm

Carsten Sellberg wrote:
So if you find a nice offer for a complete preassembled Desktop with a good Total price , will I
recommend you to find out if it already have, or can be delivered with a Intel 11th Gen and 12th Gen CPU with support for 10 and 12 bit Hardware Decoding in DaVinci Resolve Studio.

Regards Carsten.


I've considered buying a prebuilt just so I could strip out the components i want, as it would still be cheaper than being ***** by scalpers, and wouldn't involve year long wait lists.
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Re: New system - AMD or INTEL?

PostWed Jan 05, 2022 6:29 pm

OliverZ wrote:Since AMD is now throwing a new CPU (https://www.amd.com/en/product/11576) onto the market, which is "only" intended as an upgrade for AM4 sockets and therefore only supports DDR4 RAM, this is it now imho no alternative to the Ryzen 5950X ...


current DDR5 speeds are not that different compared to DDR4, especially when availability and price is considered. When DDR5 speeds get better the situation changes of course.

I'm not sure if core count is the most important thing for video editing (I may be wrong), therefore if not in a hurry the upcoming CPU with 3D cache might be even better than 5950X despite lower core count being 15% faster (at least in gaming). Worst case scenario is that they will be available in end of June which may affect your buying decision...
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OliverZ

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Re: New system - AMD or INTEL?

PostThu Jan 06, 2022 8:20 am

Thanks to everyone for your thoughts!
I've also done some research in the meantime and will probably wait a little longer ... Both Intel and AMD should have something new this summer. What the heck - my old PC is still working perfectly ...
Still, further ideas are welcome!
Regards
Oliver

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Daryl Toops

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Re: New system - AMD or INTEL?

PostThu Jan 06, 2022 5:14 pm

Puget Systems has tested Intel as running 30% slower than AMD in Resolve consistently: https://www.pugetsystems.com/recommende ... mendations

If you can afford Threadripper or Ryzen 9, you should be golden.
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Dan Sherman

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Re: New system - AMD or INTEL?

PostThu Jan 06, 2022 5:39 pm

Daryl Toops wrote:Puget Systems has tested Intel as running 30% slower than AMD in Resolve consistently: https://www.pugetsystems.com/recommende ... mendations

If you can afford Threadripper or Ryzen 9, you should be golden.


The big issue is right now, is getting your hands on a gpu thats will compliment the cpu.
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John Paines

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Re: New system - AMD or INTEL?

PostThu Jan 06, 2022 5:58 pm

Daryl Toops wrote:Puget Systems has tested Intel as running 30% slower than AMD in Resolve consistently: https://www.pugetsystems.com/recommende ... mendations

If you can afford Threadripper or Ryzen 9, you should be golden.


The article you link to is based on data which Puget System itself disavows as out of date ["Always look at the date when you read a hardware article. Some of the content in this article is most likely out of date, as it was written on November 5, 2020. For newer information, see our more recent articles."]

There's more recent testing of AMD/Intel CPUs in Resolve on the Puget site, with somewhat different results. It won't make a whole lot of difference in the end, but it might be better to be up to date before offering these recommendations.
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Carsten Sellberg

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Re: New system - AMD or INTEL?

PostThu Jan 06, 2022 6:03 pm

Daryl Toops wrote:Puget Systems has tested Intel as running 30% slower than AMD in Resolve consistently: https://www.pugetsystems.com/recommende ... mendations


Hi.

I love internet sites, where I can't se when it is written.

But I can se that Puget Systems have tested Intel 10th generation CPU against the current AMD Cpu's.

A few months ago did Intel introduce its 12th generation desktop Alder Lake CPU's with big/Little Cpu cores and its performance is a little higher than the comparable AMD CPU's, when running the new Windows 11.

But I expect when AMD introduce the AM5 Ryzen motherboards in H2 2022, will they again take the lead.

Regards Carsten.
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Daryl Toops

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Re: New system - AMD or INTEL?

PostThu Jan 06, 2022 11:16 pm

Good point. Once you get your new system there isn't an incentive to do further research, if you made the correct choice the first time...
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Re: New system - AMD or INTEL?

PostFri Jan 07, 2022 8:25 pm

The more I deal with it and the more articles I read about it, the more I come to the end: WAIT!
Because the current Intel i9 12900K can only play out its performance in connection with DDR5 - only there are apparently hardly any DDR5 RAM modules available at the moment - and what can be got is maixmal 32GB at a price for which you get almost 128GB DDR4 ... With DDR4 RAM, however, the AMD RYZEN 9 5950X is more powerful again. Apart from the fact that 2 days ago the NVIDIA 3090 was still available (at a pharmacy price, but still available) and is "not in stock" today ...
So what the heck, now I have had enough with my system for 5 years, should a few months no longer matter ... :?
Regards
Oliver

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John Paines

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Re: New system - AMD or INTEL?

PostFri Jan 07, 2022 8:40 pm

In this range the differences are trivial, but Puget Systems has the 12900K performing better than the 5950X even with lowly DDR4:

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/artic ... ries-2247/

It's no secret that for grading and fx, GPU performance is far more crucial in Resolve, so that's probably worth more worry than one CPU versus a comparable one.
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jamedia

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Re: New system - AMD or INTEL?

PostFri Jan 07, 2022 9:08 pm

OliverZ wrote:First of all, - no, I don't want an apple!


How about a nice CP/M machine? :-)

As for the "wait for the next generation" comments. You can always do that. You have to buy at some point and what ever you buy will be superseded "soon" by something expensive and your system will be at bargain basement prices.

The other problem is if you buy the new technology the moment it arrives before it has been field tested by a lot of people you can be taking quite a risk...

General consensus seems to be the AMD CPU and NVIDIA GPU.
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Uli Plank

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Re: New system - AMD or INTEL?

PostSat Jan 08, 2022 2:49 am

Second that. Buy what you need now if you can get it now.
Always waiting for the next "big thing" is Apple, not PC.
You wrote you don't want that ;-)
No, an iGPU is not enough, and you can't use HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 in the free version.

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Re: New system - AMD or INTEL?

PostSat Jan 08, 2022 7:53 am

Uli Plank wrote:Second that. Buy what you need now if you can get it now.
Always waiting for the next "big thing" is Apple, not PC.
You wrote you don't want that ;-)


The next Big Thing isn't Apple.
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Uli Plank

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Re: New system - AMD or INTEL?

PostSat Jan 08, 2022 8:42 am

I was referring to Steve Jobs' presentations, not what they deliver.
No, an iGPU is not enough, and you can't use HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 in the free version.

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Re: New system - AMD or INTEL?

PostSat Jan 08, 2022 11:35 am

jamedia wrote:
The next Big Thing isn't Apple.


the big thing just presented will lose their shine when they are really on the market ; -)
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Rakesh Malik

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Re: New system - AMD or INTEL?

PostSat Jan 08, 2022 9:01 pm

It's a tough call right now. If you can get an AMD5 motherboard which should be available soon, you'll have a lot more longevity than if you get an AM4 board now, since AMD is sunsetting AM4. AM4 had a good run though.

Though I'd favor AMD for desktops due to the higher core counts available in the Thread Rippers, but being realistic, for now it's a matter of which do you prefer?

Intel's back in the game. The competition will be hot for a while, which means that you can't go wrong with either nowadays. :)

What I'm still finding frustrating and annoying is that there aren't any viable AMD mobile options. With a desktop you can get an internal Decklink or a PCIe Thunderbolt card, but in a mobile system that's not possible, which makes AMD systems completely unusable for professional color. I hope that changes soon.
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Re: New system - AMD or INTEL?

PostSat Jan 08, 2022 9:41 pm

Rakesh Malik wrote:What I'm still finding frustrating and annoying is that there aren't any viable AMD mobile options. With a desktop you can get an internal Decklink or a PCIe Thunderbolt card, but in a mobile system that's not possible, which makes AMD systems completely unusable for professional color. I hope that changes soon.


I believe they already announced an update to their mobile lineup. Looks interesting.
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Re: New system - AMD or INTEL?

PostSun Jan 09, 2022 9:48 am

"... As for the 'waiting for the next generation' comments. You can always do that. ..."
Yes, that is absolutely correct - only I already know that in a few months the current hardware will be replaced by new ones.
So if it doesn't really have to be because my current PC is defective, then it might be better to wait than rush to buy.
It can then of course be the case that the new HW is too expensive for less, more performance and you can get "old" HW with approximately the same performance much cheaper.
In any case, the current report does not motivate me to completely forget the AMD 5950X and only to force Intel SkyLake, which can only exploit its performance advantage under Windows 11 with DDR5. And if AMD really brings an AM5 CPU with DDR5 support onto the market soon ... let's just take a look ;)
I had hoped that someone would already have a corresponding system here and could chat from experience, so to speak.
Regards
Oliver

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Rakesh Malik

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Re: New system - AMD or INTEL?

PostMon Jan 10, 2022 2:33 am

Mattias Murhagen wrote:
Rakesh Malik wrote:What I'm still finding frustrating and annoying is that there aren't any viable AMD mobile options. With a desktop you can get an internal Decklink or a PCIe Thunderbolt card, but in a mobile system that's not possible, which makes AMD systems completely unusable for professional color. I hope that changes soon.


I believe they already announced an update to their mobile lineup. Looks interesting.


Agreed... some of the new systems look amazing. But the AMD mobiles that I've dug up tech specs on still don't include Thunderbolt, though at least now there's a Studio model that's AMD based, so maybe Thunderbolt will be coming to AMD mobiles soon.

The Flow X13 has one of my favorite designs so far, with its thin + light form factor teamed with a higher spec eGPU connection than standard Thunderbolt. If Asus keeps that one up and upgrades it to PCIe 5.0 and adds a Thunderbolt port on the eGPU, it would be a winner -- use the eGPU as a docking station and connect the UltraStudio to it, and you have a nice grading setup all ready to go with just one cable.
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Uli Plank

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Re: New system - AMD or INTEL?

PostMon Jan 10, 2022 3:04 am

Thin and light in a laptop doesn't really avoid thermal throttling.
No, an iGPU is not enough, and you can't use HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 in the free version.

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Rakesh Malik

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Re: New system - AMD or INTEL?

PostMon Jan 10, 2022 3:22 am

Uli Plank wrote:Thin and light in a laptop doesn't really avoid thermal throttling.


That depends on the cooling system, and the thermal designs for these new systems are very impressive.
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Re: New system - AMD or INTEL?

PostMon Jan 10, 2022 9:57 am

Rakesh Malik wrote:It's a tough call right now. If you can get an AMD5 motherboard which should be available soon


AM5 socket will be available with Ryzen 7000 series processors which should be available by the end of the year or early next year. So even if for some reason there could be motherboards with AM5 socket available before that, you can't use them before the CPU's for AM5 socket become available.

AM5 requires different kind of "pins" and amount of pins, different memory controller (because of DDR5 memory) than current AMD processors have. So AMD is not upgrading/changing current processors to be compatible with the new socket. Or if they are, they haven't yet told anyone about it.
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Re: New system - AMD or INTEL?

PostMon Jan 10, 2022 10:07 am

Noerde wrote:
Rakesh Malik wrote:It's a tough call right now. If you can get an AMD5 motherboard which should be available soon


AM5 socket will be available with Ryzen 7000 series processors which should be available by the end of the year or early next year.


Yes but if you wait until the end of the year for the AM5 the AM6 will only be a few months away!
if you wait for the AM6 the AM7 will only be a few months after that and......

I have a feewing that for the next few years Resolve will get lighter and faster so any system that is good fo rresolve now will probalby be more than fast enough for V18 and V19
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Re: New system - AMD or INTEL?

PostMon Jan 10, 2022 10:28 am

If the AM5 has the same lifespan as the AM4, which I assume will be worth the wait - if you can / want to wait for it.
I just wanted to know if an AMD or an INTEL system would be a better choice * now *. The Intel SkyLake supports DDR 5 and would (if only with that - if you can believe the various test reports) perform better than an AMD 5950X with DDR4. Since there is hardly any DDR5 RAM at the moment (or too expensive), it will probably * at the moment * be more sensible to use AMD.
But since my current PC, which is getting on in years, is still working perfectly, I can allow myself to observe the market and then decide:
Intel with DDR5
AMD AM5 with DDR5
or for less money AMD AM4 with DDR4 - Unless my PC breaks down tomorrow ...
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Oliver

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Re: New system - AMD or INTEL?

PostMon Jan 10, 2022 3:37 pm

OliverZ wrote: If the AM5 has the same lifespan as the AM4, which I assume will be worth the wait - if you can / want to wait for it.


Hi.

Quote: '‘I don’t have an exact number of years but I would say that you should expect that AM5 will be a long-lived platform as AM4 has been’. Dr. Su also stated that even with the introduction of AM5, the company expects AM4 to stay in the marketplace for some years,'

From: https://www.anandtech.com/show/17192/ce ... rm-support

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Re: New system - AMD or INTEL?

PostMon Jan 10, 2022 5:20 pm

jamedia wrote:
Noerde wrote:
Rakesh Malik wrote:It's a tough call right now. If you can get an AMD5 motherboard which should be available soon


AM5 socket will be available with Ryzen 7000 series processors which should be available by the end of the year or early next year.


Yes but if you wait until the end of the year for the AM5 the AM6 will only be a few months away!


Well that was my point, AM5 socket is not available "soon", it's available in about a year or so.
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Mattias Murhagen

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Re: New system - AMD or INTEL?

PostMon Jan 10, 2022 5:21 pm

I'm willing to bet it'll be available no later than fall this year. Announcement mid-year, availability fall.
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Re: New system - AMD or INTEL?

PostFri Jan 28, 2022 9:13 am

Hey, gettin into that thread which, I like ! Thank you for those spec

My point of view is that AMD got thunderbolt 4 now. (laptop chips new ryzen 6000 line) so of course AM5 will have thunderbolt 4 (USB4.0 basicly). Those new laptop for resolve, the only real problem is that "memory GPU full" stuff. This is a pain in the ass, and BM Resolve Dev should do really a thing about it.
So if I've to go into a laptop, it would be Ryzen 9 6980x + Nvidia RTX 3080 16GB. unfortunatly Asus don't do such things with the ProArt lineup. But there is the beast (without USB4 sadly...) : ROG Zephyrus Duo 16 (2022) ZEPHYRUS-DUO-GX650RX-032W and on the top of it, it has VESA1000 display. Price not announce today. But it would go 4000€ maybe 5000€. Ryzen 6000 is way less expensive than alderlake.

For PC : As AMD did ryzen 2000 to ryzen 5000 on AM4, I guess it's worth the wait today for AM5, to get 5 years less/more working and then ugrading just the proc again and not the whole computer.
For me, I got the TR 3070x wich in early 2020 was the best balanced chip for resolve. But I got an old Quadro M6000 24Gb, for 600€ because Nvidia 3090 is to damn expensive today. And I heard that ADM graphic is so bad with resolve... Would love to read more about it, on a trustfull website.

Basicly, I would not go with AlderLake, because too expensive for the product, and not gradable, which is normally what you're waiting for a PC.
For CG, I would go for 3090 minimum for 4K (using 13.4GB gRAM using Edit + Fusion + Color on my project) so even the 3080 12GB would give me that "GPU memory full". If improvement will be made on the RX6800XT firmware compatibility with resolve, that would be my go too for price/power and 16GB gRAM.

All new proc will get DDR5 & PCIe 5.0. But the speed improvement won't do a really big difference. Better going with cheaper RAM DDR4 today and get more expensive CG for resolve, in my experience.

Okay, there is my though end of January with all CES 2022 announcement !
Macbook Pro M1 MAX 32CoreGPU and 64Gb of ram.
Davinci 18.1.3

Shooting Fujifilm X-T3 & Blackmagic Video Assist 7" HDR with Miller Tripod.
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Nick2021

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Re: New system - AMD or INTEL?

PostFri Jan 28, 2022 9:32 am

Nobody asked but what are you editing?

The big win going with Intel is the media decoder. That means today Resolve can decode HEVC 4.2.2 10 on the IGPU. 12 bit when Resolve is updated. The hardware is already there.

Maybe (Big maybe) the next generation Nvidia cards will have an upgraded decoder. Maybe not.

Personally worrying about motherboard socket life is false economy. Think back the last five years. HDD to SATA SDD to NVME Gen 3 to Gen 4 with Gen 5 coming RSN. USB 3.0 ,3.1, 3.2 , TB now up to 4. Ethernet speeds have gone from gigabit being fast to being budget end of the market. My guess is for many here those changes have meant more than the CPU upgrades.

Do you really need 128GB of ram but only one drive? No cache drive?

Go back to the Puget site if you want. Even with the 11th gen the better choice for editing HEVC was an 11700k . Today my guess is most don't need more than a 12600k. Put the money you save on the CPU and put it towards a more balanced system.
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OliverZ

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Re: New system - AMD or INTEL?

PostSat Jan 29, 2022 9:02 am

If the question was directed at me - I edit 90% footage from GoPro in HEVC up to 5k. That currently works with my laptop (AMD RYZEN 7 5800H, 64GB, RTX3060 (6GB), 1x512GB M.2, 1x1TB M .2, 1x 8 TB SSD) without any complaints. Even my older PC with i7-5820k, 32GB, GTX1660Ti (6GB) can still do it - not as fast and only do functions individually, but still.
My next PC will of course house 2-3 M.2 SSDs... one of which is exclusively intended for use under Resolve - which I basically already use on my laptop.
Regards
Oliver

PC: W10p64 (21H2), i7-5820k, 32GB, GTX1660Ti (6GB), 2x1TB M.2, 1x4TB SSD
NB: W11h64, AMD RYZEN 7 5800H, 64GB, RTX3060 (6GB), 1x512GB M.2, 1x1TB M.2, 1x8TB SSD
Resolve Studio 17.4.6/4, NVIDIA Studio 512.15
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ricardo marty

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Re: New system - AMD or INTEL?

PostSat Jan 29, 2022 5:13 pm

Seeing reviews in youtube the new intel alder lake with a nvida 3080 is outperforming the mi max and amd 5900

Ricardo Marty
DVR_S 18.5, Asus ProArt PD5, 2.5 GHz i7 16-Core 64GB of 3200 MHz DDR4 RAM GeForce RTX 3070 1TB M.2 NVMe Window 11, LenovoLegion 2.6 i7 10750h 2.6, 64gb 3200mhz, rtx 2060, 1tb ssd M.2 Win 11 BenQ PD3420Q, Sony FS700R, Bmp4k, Sony A6700. PreSonus AudioBox
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Carsten Sellberg

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Re: New system - AMD or INTEL?

PostSat Jan 29, 2022 9:03 pm

Hi.

Here are links to HP.Com Weekly Deals, where you can choose between 11th Gen Intel CPU or 8 or 12 Core AMD Ryzen CPU's. All with GeForce RTX™ 3090 graphics Cards.

'Intel Core i7 11700K W/RGB Liquid cooling and including a NVIDIA® GeForce RTX 3090 24GB from $2929.99':

https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/Configure ... esktop-gt1

Or 'AMD Ryzen 7 5800X 8core and including a NVIDIA® GeForce RTX 3090 24GB from $2789.99':

https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/Configure ... quantity=1

Also available with 12 core AMD CPU.

HP.Com is changing its offers every few days. Here is a link to their start page:

https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/slp/weekl ... aming-desk

Regards Carsten.
URSA Mini 4.6K

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