Mini DV Workflow

Hi,

I've been tasked with working on a documentary that was shot in 2006 on mini DV. I'm trying to figure out the best solution to log, digitize and edit in low res using Resolve. When finished I'll need to upres. I'll be working on the latest Imac. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Many thanks!

DV is “low res” as is : )

You may just find the way to transfer all the material via firewire to disk and simply start editing from there. Unless you have hundreds of hours of footage, making proxies and reconnecting to original DV files after editing may be just a waste of time.

Correct DV is low res but I do have about 200 tapes so I'll need a way to keep those files as small as possible. Can you recommend software that would be able to digitize "low res" and be compatible with Resolve? and be able to up res a final EDL?

What's your time worth? Transcoding 200 hours, presumably to a long GOP format to save space, will be slow going. Maybe you could find some way to encode "on the fly" as you capture from tape. But then you'd still be dealing with who knows what relinking nightmares when you're ready to finish.

DV is about 13GB an hour. 200 60 minute tapes would be 2.6T. Last I checked, $150-200 buys a 6T HD. Why do it any other way?

Yeah that sounds about right! I'm now thinking I'll need to log selects as I go and or do a paper log with timecode. I don't want to but I might have to... dare I say use Avid and digitize at a 15:1 compression for the offline cut. Unless someone recommends a better solution.

Aha, this is very very very very easy.

Here's how I do it - I have a cheap crappy Firewire card in my PC, I plug in my camera (any camera or player will do), and then I use `dvgrab -a` in Linux to just copy off the tapes into raw DV files, with each shot saved as a separate file.

Now, Resolve cannot cope with .dv files directly, so I use a simple one-liner like `for i in *.dv; do ffmpeg -i $i -c copy $i.mov; done;` to turn them all into files called something like "dvgrab-001.dv.mov". With a bit more work you can give them saner filenames, but this is the simplest thing that works.

If you are using HDV then don't split it into separate clips, and you'll need to do something a bit cleverer to convert the files. Resolve on Linux doesn't like the MPEG2 audio that HDV uses, but I think it works in Windows.

What means of transferring footage from tapes to files do you have available? Are DV tapes healthy - do they have continuous timecode? Are there any gaps in recordings?

You need to consider the interlaced nature of the footage and field dominance, as well as non-square pixels of SD video, and that can make a mess of its own in transcoding and offline/online process of editing.

I would just edit DV as is and forget all other unnecessary steps. We edited hundreds of hours of DV in 2006, why would that be a problem in 2022?

Aha, this is very very very very easy.

Here's how I do it - .

If I recall, it's only .avi mini-dv formats that that Resolve can't read natively (.mov files are readable, or at least were with earlier QT versions). HDV is a completely different standard, as the name indicates.

Along with a camera or a deck, he'll likely need thunderbolt/firewire adapters on the imac. There could also be problems with current capture software. In all, it could be difficult - rather than "very very very easy".

In all, it could be difficult - rather than "very very very easy".

It's only difficult if you make it difficult.

It took about three minutes from the Amazon guy dropping the firewire card through the letterbox to capturing video off a PD150, with about one of those taken up by "adapting" the bracket to fit my small form factor PC

Actually getting the capture part working was literally just "sudo apt install dvgrab" and wait all of ten seconds for it to download and install. You could probably do stuff with installing ancient proprietary software that might or might not work in modern versions of Mac OSX, but why make life difficult for yourself?

There are some tips in this thread viewtopic.php?f=3&t=109259

It's only difficult if you make it difficult.

I don't believe imacs have expansion slots, so firewire cards and the Amazon guy may not be much help here. And do you know for a fact that "sudo apt install dvgrab" is going to successfully download the files on a late model imac,with its proprietary adapters for firewire?

Of course, he could capture the files elsewhere, or on other equipment, but I don't think that was the point....

And do you know for a fact that "sudo apt install dvgrab" is going to successfully download the files on a late model imac,with its proprietary adapters for firewire?

No, I know for certain it will not.

You can only do this on a PC running Linux, and (for the command I posted) something running Debian or Ubuntu.

You cannot capture with Firewire at all on any version of Windows newer than XP (and that is extremely flaky) and I don't believe you can capture from Firewire on any recent version of Mac OSX either. The newest Mac to even have Firewire was released in 2011, so it's a fair bet that you're going to struggle with newer ones. Macs are great at what they do, but they don't do much.

Edit: just to be clear, if you're capturing in 200 tapes, you'd be better off building an actual dedicated DV-capturing machine running reliable software with a lot of disk space. An iMac doesn't really fit that bill, but an oldish Core i5 with a few simple tools would be ideal. As for space, 200 tapes is only about 2.5TB, so a couple of cheap 4TB drives configured as RAID would be rock solid reliable for keeping it on.

You're going to be sitting in front of this PC a *lot*. Don't make it any more painful than it has to be.

You cannot capture with Firewire at all on any version of Windows newer than XP

not true ... a few years back I was still transferring DV tapes from a DVX-100 to a Windows 8.1 PC using firewire ...

You cannot capture with Firewire at all on any version of Windows newer than XP

not true ... a few years back I was still transferring DV tapes from a DVX-100 to a Windows 8.1 PC using firewire ...

Okay, but that's still massively out of date and you would be unwise to connect it to a network. Plus, it's a horrible environment to work in.

Let's be clear - you've got a working month of sitting at this thing putting tapes in, starting the capture, watching it back, organising where everything goes. This is going to be *boring*. Might as well cut down the forest with a nice sharp axe, eh?

Get an older Mac mini with a FW connector, find a copy of FCP-7 and hire an assistant.
It doesn't get any easier than that.

Okay, but that's still massively out of date and you would be unwise to connect it to a network. Plus, it's a horrible environment to work in.

well, while I no longer have a need to transfer DV tapes, that same PC has been updated to the current version of Windows 10 Pro and the firewire card supports a multi-channel audio interface that is used daily (and is indeed connected to a network) ...

MacOS still supports Firewire via adaptors at least through Big Sur.

I have seen mixed reports about this being dropped in Monterey.

Final Cut Pro X still supports capture from tape: https://support.apple.com/guide/final-c ... e78a7e/mac

I've been using an old thinkpad w520, with firewire port, it took some tinkering to find the correct drivers for Windows 10. And some version of VirtualDub. I start capturing hit play on the dv player. I think it captures across time code breaks. I did a couple of tapes during quarantine and plan to to do some more in the future. Works great but I haven't tried editing DV files in ,x resolve yet. I would probably batch transcode to HD with black bars on the sides and de interlace as well to an edit friendly codec. Or keep interlaced depending on the type of footage. And de-interlace at the end. One has to take into account that dv pixels aren't square.

Thanks for all the suggestions. I have a Mac so the Pc workflow will not work. I'm afraid to say this but I might have to offline in Avid as it will allow DV import at a 15:1 compression. This will both resolve my digitizing workflow as well as storage problems.

You may purchase (or borrow) some legacy Mac Mini with build-in firewire specially for DV capture. Guess today it may cost you $50 or less (2007 MB138LL/A or lower model). You may use any legacy macOS version and install any legacy NLE on it. Quicktime player may work for DV capture as well i guess?
Note that if you capture to DV format in MOV container on mac, it will clip some highlights data. I have no idea why, but it just how DV capture designed in MOV container. You can easy recover that hidden clipped data in Davinci Resolve (other NLEs may work as well) some examples illustrated here viewtopic.php?f=3&t=109259#p603596 and here viewtopic.php?f=3&t=109259#p604678

Mini DV tape? I shot with the first mini DV tape in the 80's. The DV format was SD 720X480-- 4X3 ratio (USA) at the time. My next camera could shoot 16:9 ratio using the encoded flag in the DV stream. Then my last DV camera could shoot HDV, all on the same tape. So it's possible you could have 3 DV formats to deal with.

But, yes, just use Avid to ingest and edit the first cut. Then bring in to Resolve to UpScale.

Firewire still works great for me in Win 10. No problems at all using ProTools with Mbox and video capture with Sony DV/HDV players.

Too easy...
Any mac with a FW input > ingest in FCP7 > et voilà... (Even iMovie might make it)

Then, up to you but I'd make progressive ProRes if you captured HDV.
1/ You'll get progressive clips in the end ; 2/ you'll have a real HD 16:9 fixed resolution, instead of the anamorphed rectangular pixels 16:9

If you have kept the 1440/1080 mov from the first capture, use "DVCPRO HD" format in Resolve (which will take the real width into account)

We are in the middle of a similar project with hundreds of tapes to go as well. Fortunately, we've kept an old 2009 MacBook Pro - FireWire 400 (1X 800) that’s still working fine. We also have a Sony HVR-M15J deck for playback.
Point to make is that even with these tools we are considering an alternative workflow that is not “computer” dependant; sort of a “stand alone” compact station that can be taken home to continue and reduce the ingestion time whenever possible.
Since no specific tape player has been motioned on the original post and assuming it has component outs, the workflow we are testing at the moment is using a Teranex Mini (analog to SDI) for conversion (and potentially upscaling a bit) and a Ninja Shogun 7 we already had for recording and monitoring in one go. Yes, that’s a bit pricey but you get the point. Even using a more affordable recorder/monitor like the video Assist 3G you can also get a solid compact capturing workstation.
Another example for half the price would be using an UltraStudio HD Mini allowing you to go 2022 - Thunderbolt 3 directly into your newer iMac.
(If budget was not an issue, full on into the new HyperDeck Extreme for the ultimate case-study setup any help here Blackmagic?)
Again, the key here is what playback unit you are using.
The elephant in the room being the overall quality of capturing the component converted video vs the direct firewire transfer. A point I respectfully open here for discussion as so far, we’ve seen comparable results and more importantly, highly usable files after using this analog-conversion workflow… and many less drop frames warnings that’s for sure!
As DmytroShijan and WestCoastDP have pointed out, achieving a “perfect” mini DV digital copy can present few additional challenges these days.

Since DV is digital, it can't get any better than a digital copy.

Hi,
I am new here and I know this is an older thread but anybody looking at this might want to try an app that I found (about AU$160 !) on YouTube. I will not put it here, just do a search for DV8 capturing or something like that.

I captured about twenty tapes that are more than 20 years old, perfect quality (of course digital, great memories), and worth the money.

I simply installed it on my older iMac and it just works with both my old DV cameras. It's a hands-off transfer, that automatically separates each, numbering each seen and converting it to 264.

Greetings,
Mike

There is another alternative that works very well.

Install ElementaryOS on an old Mac with Firewire ie1394 ports on it. Elementary OS is the most macOS-like Linux variant out there. Once ElementaryOS is running on the old Mac, install dvgrab by becoming 'root' on the Linux Mac and typing 'apt-get install dvgrab'

Now that you have dvgrab running on Mac hardware with ElementaryOS, you can ingest the tapes.

Hey
In case the mac has a FW port, you don't really need any extra install to ingest tapes... Even Image Capture which come with any Mac may do it... Or iMovie
I'd personally do it with FCP though

I second the use of FCP 7 for this for one important reason. With such old tapes you may have dropouts in the middle of a recording, and these can ruin audio sync. If you use FCP, set in and out points before ingest and it re-syncs over dropouts automatically.

In 2015, I captured around 30 minDV tapes of home video from my original camcorder, a Sony DCR TRV8E, recorded as PAL. I used an old PC running XP and captured using Sony Vegas Movie Studio Platinum. Everything went fine, allowing for the fact that it was all done in real time. Footage was saved as interlaced 25fps .avi clips with time stamps. Only recently, I started processing the clips, firstly using Adobe Bridge to rename them using the date and time stamps in the file name, then Hybrid to deinterlace using QTGMC and Vapoursynth set to create 50 separate frames per second (not Handbrake because it loses half the fields) to ProRes422 and now DaVinci Resolve (DVR) to edit down and export back to ProRes422 master files for subsequent transcoding to whatever format is needed. All of this was achieved using free software apart from the original Sony suite. I used DVR on a Mac because I’m now more invested in the Apple ecosphere. I’ll call this the PC method.
What’s the point of all this? Well, recently I wondered if I could capture from the camcorder direct to my new MacBook Air 2025 running Sequoia using the daisy chain of cables and connectors you need to get from a 4 pin camcorder socket to a Thunderbolt 4 socket on the MacBook. I bought the necessary parts and tried connecting. In iMovie, the camcorder was not listed as a source on the home screen. It was only when I clicked the downward capture arrow that it appeared. All good so far. On pressing the red capture button, it captured video from the camcorder. I ran it for a couple of minutes then stopped to review the captured material. Upon examining the files with MediaInfo, it had captured to .mov, not the .dv I had expected and 25 fps interlaced (which I had expected for PAL). That should not be a major problem to deinterlace and transcode to progressive. However, iMovie had split the capture into clips of only 1.6 seconds each, not the actual length of the clips. I wondered if this would resolve itself if I brought the clips onto the editing line and exporting as a longer file but doing so and then playing them resulted in obvious blips between clips (no pun intended) causing jerky video. Contrary to what I had read online, I could find no option in iMovie settings to resolve this.
All was not lost. I had read that Quicktime could capture video. When I went into QuickTime and clicked on capture, it defaulted to the webcam. I had to click a tiny arrow next to the capture button for other options to show (not at all intuitive). The camcorder was listed there so I clicked on it as the source for both video and audio and slid the audio slider to the max. Quicktime captured as a single file. Upon examination with MediaInfo, the file was again .mov, 25fps, but had been saved as progressive, not interlaced.
I compared playback of a clip captured by Quicktime to progressive .mov and the same clip captured on the PC and processed to a ProRes422 .mov file using the process outlined. There was no comparison. The footage captured using the PC method was genuinely 50 separate frames with no edge artifacts, ‘jaggies’ etc., all very clean, whilst the footage using the Quicktime method was only 25 fps, with major edge blurring artifacts but no ‘jaggies’.
Based on my experiences, it’s my conclusion is that it is no longer possible to capture miniDV video from camcorder to a modern MacBook and retain the original quality. Quicktime will capture with a loss in quality, whilst iMovie appears to preserve quality within the file but the files are unuseably short and don’t join seamlessy.
I believe that software such as WinDV still works in Windows but you would need a desktop PC with a firewire card to capture miniDV from the camcorder. The options are very narrow now.
I’d be happy to hear of other views and experiences.

I'm using an old Mac mini, which I kept just for this purpose as described above.
It captures DV in its original quality. It shouldn't be too expensive to find such a Mac second-hand and original FCP 7 too.

Hey

I read your novel , and I discover lots of common experiences.
First of all, just not to forget, I think you shouldn't mind about the .mov extension, because if I remember well, the .dv extension captured by the good old iMovie was dropped a long time ago, which doesn't necessarily means what's wrapped inside isn't DV clips BTW...

I have a couple of ways to digitize footage because I wanted to have a solid WF I shouldn't have to think about each time the digitization occasion occurred, and I have about 3 ways now.
In case of a miniDV tape, for sure the simplest one is to connect the camcorder right to the Mac, and this can be done with a firewire input on a older mac, then the capture piece of software is almost secondary (I'd do it with FCP 7.0.3 I think, ust because I've been owning it for ages, but QT should be able as well).

Now yes, not only idealistic scenario happen, and what if the camcorder features no FW output ? More, what if no older Mac is around ? I decided to figure out how to use other routes which wouldn't be sloppy.
[This because not only miniDV were to be captured, but also PAL/SECAM VHS bigger tapes I'm regularly given, with all these vintage weddings and old family footage ]

Then I made some tests and discovered that these USB keys shaped digitizers do pretty good jobs, and even if I had preferred a direct S-Video route, even the CVBS and red and white audio analog inputs showed no major difference.
Here, there, anywhere, I did it the QT capture basic way you described and it worked great. I even discovered QT showed a 1080p capture option...

This was with an older mac at the capture end, but daisy chaining to USB should definitely work with a current one...

I bought a second hand HDV camera (Z1) for £120, then then got a Firewire cable, Firewire to thunderbolt adaptor then used Final Cut Pro 11 which STILL natively captures DV footage, gives you new clips on each cut and then exported an XML into DaVinci Resolve from there. Works perfectly.

You cannot capture with Firewire at all on any version of Windows newer than XP

not true ... a few years back I was still transferring DV tapes from a DVX-100 to a Windows 8.1 PC using firewire ...

Okay, but that's still massively out of date and you would be unwise to connect it to a network. Plus, it's a horrible environment to work in.

Let's be clear - you've got a working month of sitting at this thing putting tapes in, starting the capture, watching it back, organising where everything goes. This is going to be *boring*. Might as well cut down the forest with a nice sharp axe, eh?

I capture both DV and HDV to my current Threadripper running WIN10 Pro and connected to a 10G Ethernet NAS. For DV and HDV both Vegas and EDIUS are much better than Resolve. I capture using Vegas as it controls my decks over LANC using the same Firewire cable. It has worked this way for years and still does. These are then native files of about 12G an hour. For speed TMPGenc MW7 will deinterlace to double speed frame rate to retain temporal motion of the original interlaced file. For most things this is a lot faster than Topaz and unless file is really poor quality is just as good.

There is no shortcut if you want to see what is on all 200 tapes. I would stay in interlaced until you need to finally output.