Loosing magic mask

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Ashcam

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Loosing magic mask

PostTue Aug 02, 2022 10:16 am

I've got a problem with magic masks since updating to 18.0.1, when I use the magic mask it creates the mask fine, however when I change another node before or after or try to adjust some settings that refer to the mask then the mask disappears and can't be found again without re-tracking. The reference frame is still there, and has the track stroke on it but the tracked mask has gone and the only way I can continue is to track it forward and backward again.

Im on a PC, RTX 2080 Ti, i9-9900K CPU

Thanks
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shebbe

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Re: Loosing magic mask

PostTue Aug 02, 2022 12:33 pm

I think it used to stick around when you feed it the source of the node tree instead of any previous node. But then after you close the project and open it again it would still need recalculation. But at least you can try that and see if it helps.
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Čeněk Štrichel

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Re: Loosing magic mask

PostSun Nov 06, 2022 8:43 am

It is still there in 18.0.4. I am loosing track when I disable some node, but also after save and load my project.
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Uli Plank

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Re: Loosing magic mask

PostSun Nov 06, 2022 12:40 pm

I can't reproduce that here.
I can track, add nodes after the tracked one, deactivate and reactivate them. I can save and load my project and the track is still there. So, it must be an issue under Windows, or anybody experiencing it on a Mac?
Now that the cat #19 is out of the bag, test it as much as you can and use the subforum.

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George Massenburg

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Re: Loosing magic mask

PostTue Nov 08, 2022 3:41 pm

same problem here.

if i change anything with the Nodes or even edit the clip the mask disappears and requires re-tracking. again, the reference frame is still there,

George Massenburg
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GalinMcMahon

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Re: Loosing magic mask

PostTue Nov 08, 2022 3:59 pm

If you make changes to what was tracked, of course it would need to track again. The solution is well-documented.

In edit, turn your clip into a compound clip. Open the compound clip in a new timeline. Mask that clip. Go back to your main timeline and do your edits on the compound clip. The mask will hold since you're not changing the clip that was masked.
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drknsss

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Re: Loosing magic mask

PostTue Nov 08, 2022 5:44 pm

Sam thing happens to me as the OP..., I sort of don't mind since I don't do too much masking but a bit annoying none the less.

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mjbryan

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Re: Loosing magic mask

PostSat Dec 03, 2022 6:31 pm

Yep me too. Spend a good while creating a mask (or magic mask) and if I subsequently make any adjustment to the clip with the mask (e.g. zooming out marginally) the mask/item within it it is lost for good. Quite frustrating.

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Last edited by mjbryan on Sat Dec 03, 2022 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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xunile

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Re: Loosing magic mask

PostSat Dec 03, 2022 6:33 pm

mjbryan wrote:Yep me too. Spend a good while creating a mask (or magic mask) and if I subsequently make any adjustment to the clip with the mask (e.g. zooming out marginally) the mask/item within it it is lost for good. Quite frustrating.


Did you try Galin's workaround?
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mjbryan

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Re: Loosing magic mask

PostSat Dec 03, 2022 6:37 pm

Sorry, missed that post. Did try making a compound clip in the same timeline but no joy - will try new timeline. Ta
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mjbryan

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Re: Loosing magic mask

PostSat Dec 03, 2022 11:02 pm

Thanks yes that works but it seems a bit clunky. I didn't see this in any of the 4 or 5 online tutorials I watched. Does anyone know why it doesn't work as described?
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GalinMcMahon

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Re: Loosing magic mask

PostMon Dec 05, 2022 7:35 pm

It does work as described. Changing parameters after masking requires masking again.
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chrismcqueen

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Re: Loosing magic mask

PostWed Feb 01, 2023 3:30 am

I have the same problem. I don't understand the "this is how it's supposed to work" explanation.

I'm masking something, and 95% of it looks great, but a few frames here and there need some help. So I go in and add another stroke on those frames, and it decides to effect everything else. That doesn't make sense to me. Unless I ask it to re-render the other frames, why shouldn't it just leave those alone?
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CougerJoe

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Re: Loosing magic mask

PostWed Feb 01, 2023 4:00 am

chrismcqueen wrote:I have the same problem. I don't understand the "this is how it's supposed to work" explanation.



How many hundred times is it now that we've heard this isn't a bug, it works as it's designed to, and hundreds more will ask the same question in the future because it doesn't make sense from a human point of view for all that data to disappear like that when trying to make adjustments after a track.

I know it's a cache that disappears when the cache no longer reflects the settings that lead to the cache being built, but it could be redesigned. If the fix is to create a compound clip, then why doesn't Magic Mask do that. Also do I even want that, if I'm changing a value to try and fix a magic mask track then I why would I want a badly tracked compound clip with no tracking info?

It's like i'm talking to ChatGPT's when i'm told it's a feature, not a bug.
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Hendrik Proosa

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Re: Loosing magic mask

PostWed Feb 01, 2023 8:23 am

chrismcqueen wrote:So I go in and add another stroke on those frames, and it decides to effect everything else. That doesn't make sense to me. Unless I ask it to re-render the other frames, why shouldn't it just leave those alone?

How should it make a difference between a stroke you intend to affect single frame vs stroke you intend to affect whole sequence? It would need controls for stroke duration to do that.

But in general I agree that current design should be improved by some kind of cache locking mechanism.
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Håkan Mitts

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Re: Loosing magic mask

PostWed Feb 01, 2023 1:54 pm

Trying to wrap my head around this. Does this mean that the Magic Mask is actually like a clip with (all) the pixels in it instead of "an outline"?

Compare to eg a power window, it places on outline somewhere in the clip and whatever is within that outline is what is being delivered. Should I think about the Magic Mask as not an outline but the actual set of pixels? In this case ofcourse it makes sense if I need to track again if the pixels have changed.

Haven't tested extensively but does it matter if pixels change upstream/downstream from the node? Seems that downstream does not change the pixels in the Mask so if my interpretation is correct, downstream edits would not need to disable the tracking?

Just one small workaround that I have found: One way to loose the tracking seems to be if a disable/enable the node. Seems if I lock the node, then disable/enable cycles do not seem to undo the tracking.
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panos_mts

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Re: Loosing magic mask

PostWed Feb 01, 2023 2:17 pm

Håkan Mitts wrote:Trying to wrap my head around this. Does this mean that the Magic Mask is actually like a clip with (all) the pixels in it instead of "an outline"?
Yes, it generates a raster mask made of pixels instead of a vector mask.

If you use the magic mask in the color page, it generates a sequence of .dvcc files in the cache folder, on the fusion page it generates a sequence of .png images instead.
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Andy Mees

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Re: Loosing magic mask

PostWed Feb 01, 2023 2:26 pm

Here's a summary from a previous thread ... maybe useful, maybe not:
As it currently stands, Magic / Object Masks are inherently fragile... they are mostly static mask files generated by an algorithm, one for each frame. The algorithm looks at all the input pixels of a given reference frame in a clip instance, and, guided by a user defined stroke (or strokes), dynamically generates a mask for the arbitrary pixel area that it believes the user is most likely targeting on that reference frame. Tracking that chosen area generates a static cached mask file for each tracked non reference frame of the clip instance.

If you later adjust something... maybe it was in the same node, maybe in another node or maybe you just made a tiny adjustment on another page... whatever you did, the (static) mask track is now gone and only the occasional (dynamic) reference frame lives to tell the tale.

It's because (regardless of your best intentions) your adjustment has caused a change to the input pixels of the Magic Mask, and, as far as the software is concerned, if the input data has changed then any previously cached data based on that input must be discarded / regenerated.

You can often protect yourself against such unexpected loss of cached masks by careful separation and management of your Color Page node operations ... there are some examples of that in this thread... but once in a while you might still lose them, it shouldn't happen often, but all cache files are temporary by nature.

Another way some folks have developed to protect themselves against casual magic mask cache loss, is to nest any magic mask generation operations inside a Compound Clip ie create a compound clip from the source clip instance, open the compound clip in its own timeline, add the magic mask to the source image as needed, generate the mask cache, and then finally step back out to the parent timeline... thereafter, when you manipulate the pixels of the compound clip, you are manipulating a separate pre-masked object rather than manipulating the pixels of the source clip itself (ie the mask input), thus the mask is preserved. Do be aware though that nesting magic masks inside compound clips comes with the current drawback that such contained masks can be 'hidden' from other standard software operations. Eg Using the Magic Mask >> Regenerate Object Mask > All Clips function at the main timeline level will not regenerate masks for any such nested clips; similarly, the automatic mask regeneration that's triggered via the Delivery Page 'Render' command will skip any nested masks.
https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=167517
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Håkan Mitts

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Re: Loosing magic mask

PostThu Feb 02, 2023 5:24 pm

OK, thanks, now the behavior makes (sort of) sense. Just wish it would not be so painfully slow..
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Marc Wielage

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Re: Loosing magic mask

PostFri Feb 03, 2023 2:23 am

Håkan Mitts wrote:OK, thanks, now the behavior makes (sort of) sense. Just wish it would not be so painfully slow..

It can be a lot faster if you throw a lot of hardware at it (fast CPU, beefy GPU, and lots of RAM).
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Håkan Mitts

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Re: Loosing magic mask

PostFri Feb 03, 2023 9:36 am

Marc Wielage wrote:It can be a lot faster if you throw a lot of hardware at it (fast CPU, beefy GPU, and lots of RAM).


Yes, ofcourse I wish I had the money for a mega-upgrade. The difference to other tracking alternatives would still remain, however.
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adam_quadmon

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Re: Loosing magic mask

PostTue Feb 07, 2023 12:40 am

Hi guys, still issues here.

I tested with the Magic Mask for a couple of days with no issues but today I started loosing track data very often.
There is a clip in particular which lose the whole mask each time I hit ctrl-z to undo a stroke in a frame, and sometimes it happen also just going back to the previous frame after adding a new stroke, these issues make impossible to refine a mask.

I also followed the compound clip workaround but it doesn't change anything.

With other clips I had no issues, I could also edit a previous node without losing track data.
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nkatsaras

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Re: Loosing magic mask

PostWed Apr 26, 2023 2:11 am

I also have this issue. However I am not making any changes to the clip per se, just making color adjustments in the color tab.

So after I make my object mask I continue on the same node to make exposure/color adjustments. The adjustments hold when I toggle the node on and off to check the adjustment I made but as soon as I go to another node to continue my grade when I go back to the node with the object mask the exposure/color adjustments only hold on the singular frame that the mask was selected on.

The mask shows across the whole clip as well but the adjustments do not hold
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AJKinOHIO

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Re: Loosing magic mask

PostMon Jan 22, 2024 3:14 am

Not sure if you guys had this option back in early '23 or what but I thought I would throw this in. If I take my timeline header in the color tab and go back to the very first frame and then hit the horizontal left and right button, it re does the whole thing.
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EthicalEgret

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Re: Loosing magic mask

PostTue Feb 06, 2024 10:15 am

My magic mask resets every time I simply move the timeline play head. I don't know if I have a cache setting wrong, but it sure would be nice if DVR would tell me about the problem before I've wasted hours creating and recreating my mask. This feature is completely useless to me right now, and it was a primary reason I paid to upgrade from the free tier. :cry:

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