5.7K 59.94p HEVC playback in Edit tab (Panasonic GH6) -

Hey everyone,

Recently bought the GH6 for 6K recording, this is HEVC 10bit 59.94p footage.

My system:
- Intel I-9700
- RTX2070.

I can play smooth in VLC but not in the edit tab in DR(17). Proxy workaround works but takes ages especially when not compromising on the resolution. Because of the long recordings, playback without proxy's would be extreme usefull for my usecase.

Is my interpretation correct, the Int 12th generation like the apple M1 is a game changer here? What are the chances for me that this CPU upgrade solves my problem? Struggle to digest everything written here in this thread. Is anyone with this processor willing to try my footage?

Thanks in advance!

Hey Everyone,

Since approving my post took some time my topic popped up on page 3, there like to bump this up.

Fore references see this thread:

viewtopic.php?t=160175&p=848729

Can you share a clip for testing?

Dude, H.265 is hard on PC. No wonder VLC playback is smooth, there is a world of difference between reading a clip with a player and opening a clip with any NLE software. Now I am not a PC geek to asses your PC specs but I believe you'll have to work with proxies or you can try some other codec (H.264 or even apple pro res).

It's been my experience that the iGPUs in the newer processors do help with decoding pretty substantially.
There are some effects I can play on my M1 MAX MBP in real time that my PC can't, despite my PC being a better system overall -- but with an older processor (10940X).
The newer intel CPUs have integrated graphics as well, as I'm sure some AMDs do.

If you're already reading the footage from an SSD or at least a good RAID and want to keep things at full res, a system upgrade might be the only way to truly see some performance gains with HEVC 5.7k.

Can you share a clip for testing?

Sure. See 17 sec singing cuckoo here: https://we.tl/t-zTxuSZX9TO

Dude, H.265 is hard on PC. No wonder VLC playback is smooth, there is a world of difference between reading a clip with a player and opening a clip with any NLE software. Now I am not a PC geek to asses your PC specs but I believe you'll have to work with proxies or you can try some other codec (H.264 or even apple pro res).

For 5.7K60 H.265 is the only option with the GH6, would love to record in H.264 or something else less encoded.

I know I ask a lot, and the proxys do work. But is a pain because I somethimes have very long clips to review and direct usage would make my life much easier.

It's been my experience that the iGPUs in the newer processors do help with decoding pretty substantially.
There are some effects I can play on my M1 MAX MBP in real time that my PC can't, despite my PC being a better system overall -- but with an older processor (10940X).
The newer intel CPUs have integrated graphics as well, as I'm sure some AMDs do.

If you're already reading the footage from an SSD or at least a good RAID and want to keep things at full res, a system upgrade might be the only way to truly see some performance gains with HEVC 5.7k.

Yes I understand de new hardware Igpu's make a big difference, apparently more the graphics cards can do.

What puzzles me is that with VLC the CPU is doing noting and the GPU 60-70%, while in Davinci it is about 40-50% and 30-40%. The 'decode hardware acceleration' on/of make no significant difference. But I understand this is what it is. My system not gonna do it. Would be so great if an relative small CPU upgrade would do it.

For smooth playback it is necessary to have hardware decode by the GPU. Current AMD and NVIDIA GPU's do not have hardware decode for 10bit h265 but the M1 Mac's and new Intel iGPU's do. My Studio Max will happily playback my 5.7K 60P files from my GH6 but the Threadripper with 1080Ti will not. At the time one of the reasons I got the Studio Max. If the Intel GPU's appear in the fall I may get one to see if that will improve the PC performance.

Even my humble M1 Pro is playing such files.

I can play smooth in VLC but not in the edit tab in DR(17).

Is my interpretation correct, the Int 12th generation like the apple M1 is a game changer here? What are the chances for me that this CPU upgrade solves my problem? Struggle to digest everything written here in this thread. Is anyone with this processor willing to try my footage?

When VLC is playing does Task Manager show the CPU peaking? Or does it show your IGPU handling things?

The advantage of 11th and later generation IGPUs is they can hardware decode 12 bit HEVC 4.2.2 (Resolve only supports 10 bit at the moment) but if VLC is playing it on your current IGPU then it's not 4.2.2. Right?

The newer chips might have a faster media decoder but if VLC is handling it I doubt that's your issue.

VLC may throw all the CPU load at it, you'll need to check.

VLC may throw all the CPU load at it, you'll need to check.

Yes VLC throws in the CPU much more, as I posted above (was already posted but not approved).

When VLC is playing does Task Manager show the CPU peaking? Or does it show your IGPU handling things?

The advantage of 11th and later generation IGPUs is they can hardware decode 12 bit HEVC 4.2.2 (Resolve only supports 10 bit at the moment) but if VLC is playing it on your current IGPU then it's not 4.2.2. Right?

The newer chips might have a faster media decoder but if VLC is handling it I doubt that's your issue.

This is what puzzles me too, but then I hear you cannot compare and NLE with VLC.

Isn't the iGPU is also the CPU? Anyway the GPU takes more load in DR, in any settings.

Should I try to switch it of on the mortherboard? (if only for the decoding part ... )

Gigabyte motherboards: there is an “Internal graphics” setting in the “Chipset” section that set by default to “AUTO”.
In this mode, the embedded Intel GPU is deactivated automatically when the NVIDIA graphic card is detected, preventing to use Intel Quicksync.
This setting must be changed from “AUTO” to “ENABLED”.

For smooth playback it is necessary to have hardware decode by the GPU. Current AMD and NVIDIA GPU's do not have hardware decode for 10bit h265 but the M1 Mac's and new Intel iGPU's do. My Studio Max will happily playback my 5.7K 60P files from my GH6 but the Threadripper with 1080Ti will not. At the time one of the reasons I got the Studio Max. If the Intel GPU's appear in the fall I may get one to see if that will improve the PC performance.

I red they expect current and a next Intel to be the same on the igpu part.

There is a difference between a player and an editor. The player , like VLC, just has to play the file acceptably on the monitor at the monitor resolution as set by the OS. An editor has to assemble the file in a form for editing. Very different load on the PC. VLC on my Threadripper plays the 5.7K 60P files just fine. However none of the editors I have , Resolve, Edius or Vegas will play on a timeline. Checking CPU and GPU when playing GH6 file on Threadripper with VLC, CPU 4% GPU 65%. So VLC is using my 1080Ti and I think it is somehow using the 8bit decode ?

So VLC is using my 1080Ti and I think it is somehow using the 8bit decode ?

Resolve should also use your 1080TI. Assuming you're on Studio and have Nvidia selected under the decode option.

So VLC is using my 1080Ti and I think it is somehow using the 8bit decode ?

Resolve should also use your 1080TI. Assuming you're on Studio and have Nvidia selected under the decode option.

Yes it does. Almost the same CPU and GPU percentages. However VLC plays just fine but Resolve or any of the other NLE's drop frames run at about 7 fps. As I said before one is just displaying the file and the NLE's are preparing file for editing and then displaying. Without full compatible hardware decode this is not going to work well. I can demonstrate this difference as the GH5S files which are 8 bit h264 play just fine in Resolve.

The difference is neither NVIDIA or AMD have hardware decode of 10 bit h265

Can you share a clip for testing?

Sure. See 17 sec singing cuckoo here: https://we.tl/t-zTxuSZX9TO

Can you find some time? Thanks!

I don't have a GH6 but I use a Sony A7S3. For what it's worth, 4K 200mbps HEVC 10bit 4:2:2 59.94 fps plays at full frame rate on my timeline with a LUT applied. I have a Dell XPS 15 9510 which has an Intel i7-11800H. During playback usage tracks as:

CPU: 18%
Intel GPU: 30%
NVidia 3050ti: 37%

So it handles it fairly easily even with an 11th gen Intel cpu. This is on Resolve 18.

EDIT: Added a picture to show that the 11th gen Intel gpu is indeed handling video decoding.

That cuckoo clip is playing smoothly here in an UHD timeline at full speed.
No proxies. I think it's all about hardware decoding.

Can you share a clip for testing?

Sure. See 17 sec singing cuckoo here: https://we.tl/t-zTxuSZX9TO

That clip is 5728 x 3024, 10-bit, 4:2:0, 59.94 fps, 290 megabit/sec, HEVC, profile = 6.1@High.

I tried it using Resolve Studio and FCP on four different Macs, all top spec configurations.

Summary: FCP 10.5.4 and Resolve 17.3.1 were unusably slow on the 2017 iMac with i7-7700K ("Kaby Lake") running Catalina 10.5.7. VLC 3.0.7.1 would play it at 1x but no faster. Quicktime Player would play it at 2x.

On the 2019 MacBook Pro with i9-9900KH ("Coffee Lake"), running Monterey 12.5.1. FCP 10.6.4 and Resolve 18.0.1 Studio were improved but still somewhat laggy, esp if using JKL commands. It would play at 2x speed in VLC and Quicktime Player.

On the M1 Max MacBook Pro 16 it was smooth and likewise the M1 Ultra Mac Studio. Both of those were on Monterey 12.5.1, FCP 10.6.4 and Resolve Studio 18.0.1.

The issue with VLC performance is really irrelevant since it's very unlikely the NLE will be changed in a timeframe useful to your task at hand.

Your i7-9700 CPU is "Coffee Lake" or 8th-generation. I don't think it has hardware decoding for your codec. In theory the RTX-2070 does for 10-bit 4:2:0 HEVC but I don't know if it supports that HEVC profile, resolution and frame rate. Hardware decoders are very narrow and finicky about what they support. E.g, they may support 10-bit 4:2:0 but not 4:2:2 or they might support 10-bit 4:2:0 for DCI 4k and UHD 4k at 23.98 but not at 59.94, or they might support that but not odd frame sizes like 5728 x 3024. What they support is so poorly documented that Puget Systems had to run their own tests to determine this: https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/artic ... udio-2122/

See 17 sec singing cuckoo here:

Using an older i5-2500K and a decent (but far from the best) RTX 3060, I wasn't able to go over about 30 fps.

I have a Rule Of Thumb which will help here.

1. If you shoot H.264/5, edit with proxies.
2. If you don't want to use proxies, don't shoot H.264/5.

Good hardware can often mitigate the need for that Rule, but...not so much here it seems. (At least not for me.)

On the M1 Max MacBook Pro 16 it was smooth and likewise the M1 Ultra Mac Studio. Both of those were on Monterey 12.5.1, FCP 10.6.4 and Resolve Studio 18.0.1.

Mine is only M1 Pro (no Max or Ultra) and is handling the format just the same.

On the M1 Max MacBook Pro 16 it was smooth and likewise the M1 Ultra Mac Studio. Both of those were on Monterey 12.5.1, FCP 10.6.4 and Resolve Studio 18.0.1.

Mine is only M1 Pro (no Max or Ultra) and is handling the format just the same.

The hardware decoders are all the same so there should be no difference between M1 Pro ,Max, or Ultra. Other things may affect performance of course.

Anyone can upload the cuckoo video again? Thanks.

...The hardware decoders are all the same so there should be no difference between M1 Pro ,Max, or Ultra. Other things may affect performance of course.

That is correct, the individual decoders are the same on all M1 products, so even a base-model refurbished M1 Mac Mini for $569 can play that smoothly in Resolve or FCP: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08PF2RF76/

That said, the M1 Ultra has two video decode engines and in my tests of 4k H264 or HEVC 4-angle multicam it is considerably smoother than M1 Max. But that's a big price to pay for additional smoothness in one specific scenario. It's only possible since there are multiple input streams, apparently which can be split between the decoders.

In theory the M1 Ultra could do that on a single stream or use its four encode engines on a single output, but for Long GOP that would require segmenting the files on a GOP boundary. Some Long GOP formats are dependent or "open" and cannot be processed independent of other GOPs, so that makes parallel decode/encode more difficult.

Anyone can upload the cuckoo video again? Thanks.

Link to his video is here: https://we.tl/t-zTxuSZX9TO

I just tried it and it also plays perfectly smooth full 60fps at 4k timeline display on my Dell XPS 15 laptop. Attached a pic showing machine use but it breaks down as:

CPU: 17%
Intel GPU: 39%
Nvidia 3050ti: 38%

Timeline playback does indeed make use of the Intel video decoder on my 11th gen Intel i7-11800H cpu. So looks like Intel 11th gen can decode it, 9th gen can't judging from previous posts, anyone know about 10th gen?

Strange i get nothing in that link, only a generic wetransfer page.

Scratch that, seems Vivaldi can't get the page correct while Opera does.

Testing:

Resolve 17 not studio timeline limited to 3840 × 2160 59.94fps while movie is 5728x3024.

Struggles heavily with 5800H at 80% or so and the 3060 on 12% maximum but often lower and not surpassing 10%.


While in VLC plays okay and the CPU goes only to 6-7% and the 3060 now is pushed and goes to 68%.

Testing 2: my laptop has MUX means i can use only the RTX3060 bypassing the 5800H AMD gpu and go directly to the screen.
This ideal for me when rendering in Blender since the without MUX is said that about 5% of Nvidia is lost because its signal has to go trough 5800H gpu first and then to the screen. AMD gpu can't work at same time in Blender.
In this case is turned off MUX(requires a restart) and put in Hybrid mode so the Nvidia and 5800H gpu can work concurrently. It improved but not enough to be pleasant experience. The 5800H gpu at 12% and the 3060 also got just bit more live. 5800H CPU remained in 80-90%.

[. So looks like Intel 11th gen can decode it, 9th gen can't judging from previous posts, anyone know about 10th gen?

Desktop no but at least some of the laptop chips should. You would need to check which version of QuickSync

Resolve 17 not studio timeline limited to 3840 × 2160 59.94fps while movie is 5728x3024.

Struggles heavily with 5800H at 80% or so and the 3060 on 12% maximum but often lower and not surpassing 10%.


While in VLC plays okay and the CPU goes only to 6-7% and the 3060 now is pushed and goes to 68%.

.

Free version does not use any GPU decoder, have to pay for Studio. VLC uses GPU decode, VLC is not trying to upsell you to a paid VLC Studio

Resolve 17 not studio timeline limited to 3840 × 2160 59.94fps while movie is 5728x3024.

Struggles heavily with 5800H at 80% or so and the 3060 on 12% maximum but often lower and not surpassing 10%.


While in VLC plays okay and the CPU goes only to 6-7% and the 3060 now is pushed and goes to 68%.

.

Free version does not use any GPU decoder, have to pay for Studio. VLC uses GPU decode, VLC is not trying to upsell you to a paid VLC Studio

Yes it does use if you get the HEVC plugin. Might be resolution limitation.

.

Free version does not use any GPU decoder, have to pay for Studio. VLC uses GPU decode, VLC is not trying to upsell you to a paid VLC Studio

Yes it does use if you get the HEVC plugin. Might be resolution limitation.

That's interesting, so Resolve (free) will use your GPU decoder for simple HEVC 8bit formats?
What about HEVC 10bit like this file people are testing, it sounds like it's not using the GPU decoder, while studio does decode via GPU. Need a 4K HEVC 10bit to test

Yes. https://www.free-codecs.com/hevc_video_ ... wnload.htm

But if you are in V18 Free it already comes with it, so no need for plugin.

This 10bit samples plays without issue in Resolve so might be the 4:2:2 issue or and resolution.
https://www.eoshd.com/news/download-my- ... ware-v1-0/

I think the limiting factor is 422, the free version accepts higher resolutions, only the output is limited to UHD.
OTOH, hardware decoders have different limits for resolution.

I just tried it and it also plays perfectly smooth full 60fps at 4k timeline display on my Dell XPS 15 laptop. Attached a pic showing machine use but it breaks down as:

CPU: 17%
Intel GPU: 39%
Nvidia 3050ti: 38%

Timeline playback does indeed make use of the Intel video decoder on my 11th gen Intel i7-11800H cpu. So looks like Intel 11th gen can decode it, 9th gen can't judging from previous posts, anyone know about 10th gen?

Thanks for the confirmation that the newer Intels pulls it of. I gonna take the jump.

I just tried it and it also plays perfectly smooth full 60fps at 4k timeline display on my Dell XPS 15 laptop. Attached a pic showing machine use but it breaks down as:

CPU: 17%
Intel GPU: 39%
Nvidia 3050ti: 38%

Timeline playback does indeed make use of the Intel video decoder on my 11th gen Intel i7-11800H cpu. So looks like Intel 11th gen can decode it, 9th gen can't judging from previous posts, anyone know about 10th gen?

Thanks for the confirmation that the newer Intels pulls it of. I gonna take the jump.

10th Gen Intel can't decode 4:2:2. https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/artic ... udio-2122/

Let's see what RTX4xxx will bring. But this appear specially dumb from AMD. Another question is if 4:2:2 will really stay or is some fleeting industry fashion.

As I wrote, only the latest two generations by Intel, which are 11th and 12th (and Apple silicon).
I don’t think it’s going away with the trend to HDR and the general tendency towards more and more demanding hardware.

Apologies for duplication.
Note that the more demanding 10 bits and 12 bits 4:4:4 is already hardware decoded by Nvidia 2xxx and 3xxxx
It is the "intermediate" 10 and 12 bits 4:2:2 that is not.

Bought the I12700 (non K) and it works.

IGPU says 50-70%.

Great!

Thank you all.

It is really different when you have hardware helping you.

[quote="Alex Silva"

10th Gen Intel can't decode 4:2:2. https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/artic ... udio-2122/

.[/quote]

Just for anybody searching. That's only true for desktop. 10th gen laptops do.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Quick_Sync_Video

Version 7 (Ice Lake)
The Ice Lake (microprocessor) adds VP9 4:4:4 decoding, VP9 encoding (up to 10-bit and 4:4:4), HEVC 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 decoding and encoding,[14] HDR10 Tone Mapping[15] and Open Source Media Shaders.[16] HEVC hardware encoding quality has also been improved.[17]