Youtube darkens my video uploads

Everytime I upload a video to YT, it makes it considerably darker and I was wondering if there was a simple known fix. I have rendered as MP4 (and Quicktime) H.264 with NVIDIA encoder at 1080p 50fps, encoding profile Auto and also tried using the Youtube button for rendering with no difference in the end result on YT.
Anyone any ideas on how to resolve this?

If you import your render into Resolve does it look correct? Are you rendering with Video level or Full level? For YT you should use Video level. Do you have a calibrated display, or at least one known to be accurate? Though you cannot expect your render to look exactly the same on different video players as they all manage color differently, they should be similar.
For comparison here is a screen grab showing Resolve and the YT replay together.

These are the render settings used for the above video. Data Levels are set to Video.

Thank you for your help Charles, I have been trying a few variations, data was on Auto, so no idea but I have just uploaded with it set to Video, your image shows settings quite different to mine so I shall give those a go now.

hmm, interesting that rendered as you have above it saves as a MOV file (I am guessing that is Quicktime?) and is unplayable in Windows media player and does not register as a playable format on windows explorer?

It rendered as .mov because I set the Format to Quicktime, which I always use. There is no problem playing a .mov video file in Windows using Windows Media Player, VLC, Quicktime, or Windows Film & TV.
Quicktime like MP4 is just a container. It's the codec inside which is important.

I uploaded exactly as your settings and YT is still considerably darker, however when importing back into Resolve it is at it's correct brightness

Here's something to try. This is a link to the video shown in the pics above. When you play it does its brightness match that in the YouTube pic I posted?

Yes I would say it matches perfectly

This is a tough nut to crack. As my YT upload looks fine there must be something somewhere in your settings that is causing a change in YT when it replays your video, but has no affect when you view your render in Resolve. I can't think what it might be though.

Well, thank you for your input, it has been very helpful even if it hasn't resolved the issue.

What Tags did you set for youtube? Youtube needs tags to interpret the footage correctly. Under advanced settings on the delivery page you find color space tag and gamma tag...set the first one to Rec709 and the second to Rec 709-A....upload again to youtube....

What Tags did you set for youtube? Youtube needs tags to interpret the footage correctly. Under advanced settings on the delivery page you find color space tag and gamma tag...set the first one to Rec709 and the second to Rec 709-A....upload again to youtube....

I've seen this advice many times and always wondered if the output color space should also be changed to match Rec709/Rec709-A? The default output color space would be Rec709/gamma 2.4 (which is probably what the OP's project is set to). Changing the output tags on the delivery page does not change the output color space, only the tagging, I believe. Does anyone know if the output color space should also be changed to Rec709/Rec709-A in order for YouTube uploads to correctly interpret the footage as 1-1-1 (the tagging for Rec709/Rec709-A)?

If you watch on OSX you change output to Rec.709-A.
For PC you need sRGB or 2.2.
In both case gamma, not tag itself.

If you watch on OSX you change output to Rec.709-A.
For PC you need sRGB or 2.2.
In both case gamma, not tag itself.

Thanks, Andrew.

If you watch on OSX you change output to Rec.709-A.
For PC you need sRGB or 2.2.
In both case gamma, not tag itself.

What do you mean when you say "not tag itself"? I have Timeline color space Rec.709 Gamma 2.2 and Output color space Rec.709 Gamma 2.2

What Tags did you set for youtube? Youtube needs tags to interpret the footage correctly. Under advanced settings on the delivery page you find color space tag and gamma tag...set the first one to Rec709 and the second to Rec 709-A....upload again to youtube....

Thanks, it's been a long time since I've used DR and had forgotten all that, all uploading fine now. Cheers

If you watch on OSX you change output to Rec.709-A.
For PC you need sRGB or 2.2.
In both case gamma, not tag itself.

What do you mean when you say "not tag itself"? I have Timeline color space Rec.709 Gamma 2.2 and Output color space Rec.709 Gamma 2.2

Yes, actual setting for output.
Having 2.4 gamma and just tag as Rec.709-A does nothing. YT in most cases will assume 1-1-1 tag anyway as it says in their table:
https://support.google.com/youtube/answ ... olor-space
Tagging is barely any help.

If you have done grading to 2.4 and want YT version for OSX then just change output gamma and export Rec.709-A based master. Then watch in color managed player (Safari etc.).
You can do the same, but use sRGB or 2.2 gamma and then watch in non-color managed app, which are now rare on OSX I think.

It all comes to fact that OSX uses around 1.95 based reverse gamma for 1-1-1 tag (which is from original Rec.709 spec). You most likely graded in 2.4 or 2.2 so obviously there is no way both previews will match.
Resolve Rec.709-A is that around 1.95 gamma, so once you use this YT preview will match Resolve.
To make things even worse YT/Vimeo uses only 1-1-1 tag (except HDR variants).
What could work well is sRGB grading and tagging as this is properly reversed by OSX, but unfortunately YT/Vimeo won't preserve sRGB tagging. They just simply pass video as is, but change tag to 1-1-1, so it all falls apart again as we have mismatch to original settings.

If you watch on OSX you change output to Rec.709-A.
For PC you need sRGB or 2.2.
In both case gamma, not tag itself.

What do you mean when you say "not tag itself"? I have Timeline color space Rec.709 Gamma 2.2 and Output color space Rec.709 Gamma 2.2

Yes, actual setting for output.
Having 2.4 gamma and just tag as Rec.709-A does nothing. YT in most cases will assume 1-1-1 tag anyway as it says in their table:
https://support.google.com/youtube/answ ... olor-space
Tagging is barely any help.

If you have done grading to 2.4 and want YT version for OSX then just change output gamma and export Rec.709-A based master. Then watch in color managed player (Safari etc.).
You can do the same, but use sRGB or 2.2 gamma and then watch in non-color managed app, which are now rare on OSX I think.

It all comes to fact that OSX uses around 1.95 based reverse gamma for 1-1-1 tag (which is from original Rec.709 spec). You most likely graded in 2.4 or 2.2 so obviously there is no way both previews will match.
Resolve Rec.709-A is that around 1.95 gamma, so once you use this YT preview will match Resolve.
To make things even worse YT/Vimeo uses only 1-1-1 tag (except HDR variants).
What could work well is sRGB grading and tagging as this is properly reversed by OSX, but unfortunately YT/Vimeo won't preserve sRGB tagging. They just simply pass video as is, but change tag to 1-1-1, so it all falls apart again as we have mismatch to original settings.

Thanks for the in depth explanation Andrew, much appreciated

What Tags did you set for youtube? Youtube needs tags to interpret the footage correctly. Under advanced settings on the delivery page you find color space tag and gamma tag...set the first one to Rec709 and the second to Rec 709-A....upload again to youtube....

I've seen this advice many times and always wondered if the output color space should also be changed to match Rec709/Rec709-A? The default output color space would be Rec709/gamma 2.4 (which is probably what the OP's project is set to). Changing the output tags on the delivery page does not change the output color space, only the tagging, I believe. Does anyone know if the output color space should also be changed to Rec709/Rec709-A in order for YouTube uploads to correctly interpret the footage as 1-1-1 (the tagging for Rec709/Rec709-A)?

The output color space has to be Rec 709 also, because you deliver to a Rec709 display as target. The tags on the delivery page are for safety. Gamma should be 2.2 or 2.4 (depends on your grading and target environment. I mostly deliver in 2.2 for internet, assuming that most people will watch the content on mobile devices or screens in a bright environment...

Rec709 (Scene) timeline settings should work correctly with youtube.

Correcting Rec709 video for gamma 2.2 devices using additional color transform is not correct.

sRGB/g2.2 on light environment should have the exactly the same look as 2.4 on dim studio.
Because it is a known color theory effect (contrast effect). sRGB has been created to be compatible with Rec709, so no any correction is required.

2.4 dark env Rec709 video = 2.2 light env Rec709 video.

In all these cases video should be encoded with 2.4 gamma (Rec709 standard). No any correction of video data gamma is needed because compatibility.

In all these cases video should be encoded with 2.4 gamma (Rec709 standard). No any correction of video data gamma is needed because compatibility.

Yes, but this is just theory. Real life is all over the place and you get reverse gamma based on anything from 1.95 up to 2.4 (OS, browser, player dependant). 2.4 is hardly good. If anything sRGB or 2.2 is best average.

Yes, but this is just theory.

I had my own tests. Really the same look.
But the real problem is OS Color management is locked to 2.2 Daylight environment. It is not always correct.

2.4 graded file uploaded to YT and watched in Safari looks the same as Resolve preview (with Resolve se to follow color profile)?
Same file, downloaded as YT encode (which will have 1-1-1 tags) looks the same when played in QTX?

OSX color management is not locked to anything- it reads tags (recognises few common combinations) and properly converts them to screen profile.

On PC - no idea. Old days it was rather all "2.2 or sRGB" gamma assumed. Like a hard coded.

Andrew. Mac is locked to use any Mac software on daylight environment with gamma 2.2.
So it is incorrect to compare two software windows together.

On Resolve gamma 2.4 means controlled studio environment with a monitor calibrated to gamma 2.4.
On a mac application 2.4 means daylight environment and monitor is calibrated to 2.2.

Many users do not understand that color management is also light environment-based. No way to display Resolve and Mac Software on the same screen with two different lighting environments.

Comparing it is nonsenese. It is the cause why users do not understand why colors are not the same on Mac.

Mac converts between video file and screen profile automatically, so you get gamma and gamut "normalisation".
Your 2.4 graded file is gamma corrected to Mac typical 2.2 gamma based monitor profile.

In order for it to work you need proper tags and they have to be ones which OSX understands.

Create Rec.709 2.4 gamma video and export as is and as eg. P3 2.6 gamma.
Watch both in QTX - you get same visual preview.

I'm not talking about environment 'corrections' as this is another level.

Also new XDR screens have reference presets (which is even better than actual "normalisation") so they are not anymore just 2.2 gamma. You can change screen profile. You can switch to Rec.709 BT.1886 or P3 DCI, etc. Then they became "native" monitors of chosen gamma/gamut like in case of reference screens.
Accuracy is different subject.

Again.

Windows/Mac ICM pipeline is locked to Gamma 2.2 Display that should be viewed on daylight environment as described on the sRGB standard.

But a video production is based on dim-lighting. This is a Gamma 2.4 Display with 0 nits black level (Grading Monitor 1, based on OLED panel) and a controlled surround backlight.

If someone create video on incorrect environment and incorrect calibrated display, they create incorrect videos those cannot be displayed correctly on Mac ICM Pipeline.

On Windows there is another case. Because Windows has no any changes in video correction for ICM. So Resolve Window and any video player shows video with the same gamma. So there is also an illusion that all doing right. But the problem is the same:

If you create video for Rec709 Standard you MUST have correct gamma and environment.
And this video WILL always correct on a 2.2 Gamma Screen if sRGB environment conditions are the same.

If you see Resolve window and compare it with a mac software window - you doing all absolutely wrong, because these windows MUST be displayed on different lighting environments. SO it is absolutely impossible. You cannot be the same time in a dark room and on the light room. SO you see different brightness images.

Sorry, I have no time to teach users for these basic color theory and color standard ideas. Open Google and learn yourself. Most internet forums about mac color problems are from users who do not understand anything in this topic. If you doing all correctly - all MUST be displayed absolutely correct if have correct calibration conditions. I know no experience colorists who have any problem on this area on Ma and Windows.

Really? And here I thought that the main issue is that YouTube and other streaming services fail to read the color / gamma tagging and assume 1-1-1.

Steve. Youtube reads Rec709-standard SDR video and streams it without any color changes to a client computer. So if you create SDR video for Youtube it should be Rec709 Video.

Most client PCs should display this video correctly on Mac, Windows, Android because they designed to be calibrated to sRGB as required by standards. And most users see video on a daylight environment, so it is close to sRGB standard.

But user who create Rec709 video also must have correct calibration, devices and software settings. Using Resolve it is always possible on Mac and Windows. Just read the Resolve user manual and Rec709 standards for video production. And use calibrated devices and lighting and surround environment.

Comparing Resolve Viewer and any software player at the same time is WRONG.

What should I see for P3 2.6 gamma graded (on ref screen) video in QTX ?
Has to be quite wrong preview (wrong gamma, wrong gamut) according to your claims.
Well- try yourself. You will be surprised

Steve. Youtube reads Rec709-standard SDR video and streams it without any color changes to a client computer. So if you create SDR video for Youtube it should be Rec709 Video.

I think what happens is that YouTube repackages your video and tags it 1-1-1 for SDR, meaning that the video is seen as Rec709 gamma Rec709-A. If you play this video from YouTube in a color space aware player, it will reproduce the gamma as Rec709-A. If you uploaded a Rec709 / gamma 2.4 video to YouTube, YouTube will re-tag it as 1-1-1 (which is not gamma 2.4) and then it will look wrong on a player that reads and processes the 1-1-1 tag. A player that ignores the tag and assumes gamma 2.4 will look fine... and so on. Maybe I have some of these details wrong. Andrew K. has a good point as well.

Yes.

Video should be encoded with correct tags, because Mac ICM uses this information to correct video colors to the display characteristics. Youtube ignores tags, so the image data will be interpreted always as Rec709.

But another part of a case: Resolve should be configured to correctly display video in the internal video viewer.

If these settings are wrong, the result video may be in correct tags, but in wrong colors by default. Also we will get strange gamma shifts because ICM.

If all settings were correct, Resolve should display video exactly as the result video in the QT player and after Youtube encoding. All parts of color management should be checked. Some legacy software may ignore color management.

What you say is mostly true expect you don't get that Rec.709 means many possible gammas and this is the root of all problems.
For OSX Rec.709 (1-1-1, which you always get from YT) means about 1.95 gamma. You never use this in Resolve (you will use sRGB, 2.2, 2.4).
You can/should grade to standard gamma, but if you want good YT preview on OSX you need to export special version with Rec.709-A as gamma. Of course this will look bad on PC which doesn’t expect 1.95 gamma but sRGB or 2.2 or 2.4 depending on the player/browser.
We’ve been over this countless times and nothing changed. Maybe one change is that reasons are known now and confirmed by different companies/people.
There is no real solution atm.
Best solution is an introduction of standard tag for BT.1886 which then could be respected by all parties in the chain, but this requires actions at top level - ITU etc. They failed to introduce one (when BT.1886 was announced). They done it for HDR and this is fine. At least you can tag file as PQ or HLG and there is no problems with it. Imagine single HDR tag which could mean both HLG or PQ- how messy would that be

Another solution is for YT/Vimeo to accept and properly pass sRGB grades (now they will change tag to 1-1-1)- this works fine on Mac and it would work okish on PC as well. I've tried with Vimeo- they acknowledged it, but done nothing more.

What you say is a lot of general principles, but this is not how current reality works
You still have not answered my question, just keep repeating same "theoretical rules".