Exporting for all platforms - Mac / Windows

Wondering if anyone knows if the Quicktime Gamma issue has a solution yet where the videos we export out of Resolve look 'the same' when viewing on a Mac as they do on a Windows computer? See attached image for colour discrepancy reference. Top player is Quicktime / bottom player VLC where VLC matches back to Resolve perfectly.

I work on a Windows workstation (i1Pro calibrated displays) and export out of Resolve to Youtube. Videos look fantastic and match back to my viewer in Resolve perfectly. The world is fantastic in Windows. When I view that same video in any Mac app that uses Apple's Colorsync things fall apart, as many of us know at this point. That same video file viewed in VLC on the same Mac looks fantastic and matches back to everything I'm seeing on my Windows workstation.

So I'm wondering if there's been any progress in discovering a way to work and render out of Resolve where the output video looks 'identical' on both Mac (Colorsync apps) and Windows. In other words, one output render for all computer platforms that matches our Resolve colour work.

The reality is even though we can point the finger at Apple and blame them for the 'bug', we're still going to get clients who use Apple computers and who will really not like what they're seeing (understandable!). With remote workflows becoming pretty common, it makes using things like FRAME.IO a challenge.

Anyway... wondering if anyone has an update when it comes to this problem.

So just ran a quick visual Youtube comparison between Windows and Mac OS looking at MKBHD videos. He knows his stuff when it comes to video output for Youtube and works on both OS's. His videos are washed out and pasty on the Mac and pop and look great on Windows. The issue is clearly Apple here and it seems there's nothing we can do about it. If we could, I would assume that MKBHD would have already sorted it out and would be doing it.

Very frustrating. Why hasn't Apple fixed this?

So just ran a quick visual Youtube comparison between Windows and Mac OS looking at MKBHD videos. He knows his stuff when it comes to video output for Youtube and works on both OS's. His videos are washed out and pasty on the Mac and pop and look great on Windows. The issue is clearly Apple here and it seems there's nothing we can do about it. If we could, I would assume that MKBHD would have already sorted it out and would be doing it. Very frustrating. Why hasn't Apple fixed this?

You'd have to ask them. If you want to know why these things happen, read these:

"Grading for Mixed Delivery: Cinema, Home, and Every Screen in Between" by Cullen Kelly
https://blog.frame.io/2019/10/14/gradin ... -delivery/

and

"How to Deal with Levels: Full vs. Video"
by Dan Swierenga
https://www.thepostprocess.com/2019/09/ ... l-vs-video

and I think both cover the issues and the solutions very well.

Understanding color management is also helpful:

"Color Management for Video Editors"
https://jonnyelwyn.co.uk/film-and-video ... o-editors/

The above articles will explain why things change on different displays, different playback engines, and the importance of calibration and color-managed outputs.

I generally try to export a second or two of SMPTE Bars at the head of the project, and I import the file back into Resolve to check it on scopes to verify all the levels are correct. Using calibrated displays is a must -- without that, you have no idea what you're looking at. We also accept that the basic picture is going to change a little bit on different devices, because that's life.

It's not Apple alone to blame, it's lack of standardisation.

Have a look at this for a limited fix:

Thanks to both of you. Bit of background about me...

I've been a retoucher and cgi artist in commercial print advertising for over 20 years and have been entrenched in colour management all that time. My studio very much has the same characteristics as a grading suite. Video work is now an integral component in many projects and colour grading video is a natural progression for me. I've been grading stills for a very long time now.

What is so frustrating for me is the lack of standards for internet video and our computer devices. In print, we have standardized RGB deliverables and standardized CMYK proofing processes. And of course those of us in the print world also understand that our output will appear differently depending on where it ends up. Really what I find absolutely frustrating is that the likes of Apple, Google, Microsoft, Mozilla, etc.haven't standardized internet colour management. And now, with many of us soley using streaming services, broadcast standards need to evolve to include this medium. It can't be good enough to say that we simply have to accept that there is no standard everyone can agree on.

I find I'm experiencing the exact same thing I experienced more than 20 years ago when commercial Photographers first started delivering digital images for print. Back then there was a lack of standards when it came to delivering digital images (between the Printer / Prepress / Agency / Photographer). Standards eventually levelled things out and everyone involved was much better off. Fingers crossed that we see the same thing happen here with the internet, our computer and mobile devices, and the media we consume.

Anyway... thanks again to you both. I've got my cup of coffee and will be watching the video and reading through the links you shared.

It's not Apple alone to blame, it's lack of standardisation.

Have a look at this for a limited fix:

Invaluable. Many thanks

I recommend watching the video link in this thread as it provided me with the workaround. It's not perfect but it's much better than any other options I've seen or tried. See the attached screen captures for reference.

First, I work on a Windows workstation that is colour managed and calibrated and I have no issues in any of the web browsers. Video simply looks as it should and matches back to my Resolve grading without issue. Life in the Apple world is much different. Exporting out a Rec 709 Gamma 2.4 video was a total disaster. The same video watched in different apps on the same Mac desktop showed the video incorrectly. The video provides this workaround and I have tested it... simply put it works.

Working in Resolve...

Colour Science: Davinci YRGB Colour Managed (Automatic colour management OFF)
Colour Processing: HDR Davinci Wide Gamut Intermediate
Output Colour Space: Rec. 709 Gamma 2.4

In Timeline Nodes I've added a Colour Space Transform (CST) followed by another node with a minor Curves adjustment that tweaks things so that when I toggle these two nodes on and off, there's virtually no visual difference.

Input Colour Space: Rec.709
Input Gamma: Gamma 2.4
Output Colour Space: Rec.709
Output Gamma: Gamma 2.2

On the Delivery Page...

- Outputting MP4
- Codec H.264
- Encoder Auto
- In 'Advanced Settings' set the Colour Space Tag to Rec.709 and the Gamma Tag to Rec.709-A

Render this out and upload to Youtube, Vimeo, etc. and watch in any browser on both Mac and Windows and the video will look the same. A caveat here is that the Mac Display profile should be set to HD 709A or REC. ITU-R BT.709-5. Any other icc Display Profiles will display your video colour incorrectly. The video will look the same in any of the Mac's apps / browsers but the video itself will not match back to your Windows Resolve Grade.

Simply put, I'll be creating a remote calibrated viewing workflow with clients (Mac / PC) where we're all seeing the same thing. Really... this shouldn't be this hard in this day and age. This is exactly the same thing I dealt with over 20 years ago when Photographers began delivering digital files to agencies. We all need to fix this asap.

NOTE: In the attached images you'll see the video opened on a Mac in Firefox / Chrome / Safari / Quicktime / VLC. The other image shows the video in My Resolve Viewer with the CST and Curve Adjustement Nodes.

An issue on the Mac that I'm still trying to solve has to do with users who have an icc display profile set to anything other than Rec.709A. sRGB is very close. Apple RGB is close enough (cringe). Many clients (commercial photographers / agencies) will have icc display profiles at or close to Adobe RGB 1998 and that's where things can fall apart on a Mac when viewing videos.

So far the only solution I can give them for viewing the videos in a reasonably accurate way it to either switch their display profile to Rec.709A or leave their calibrated display profile as-is and view the video in VLC. Not ideal but it'll work. Wondering if anyone has suggestions for a strictly internet / streaming only client review process that works for them and they'd care to share. FRAME.IO is my go to for online review. This means MAC OS clients, who don't change their display profile, will have to download the videos and open in VLC in order to see an acceptable reproduction of the actual grading. Again, this will work but it's not ideal.

FOLLOW UP: So I continued with testing on both Mac / PC and in all main browsers and here is my final conclusion for my client review workflow...

Render Rec. 709A Gamma 2.2 out of Resolve and upload online as needed wherever needed (e.g. Frame.io, Youtube, Vimeo, etc). There is no longer a visual mismatch between apps and browsers.

- On Client Windows systems video plays accurately (enough) assuming they're using a calibrated display (e.g. i1Pro / i1Profiler - 6500 - gamma 2.2)

- On Client Mac OS systems video plays accurately (enough) with their displays set to the following...

1st best - HD 709A (Excellent match to Resolve colour calibrated and colour managed workstation - PC)
2nd best - Rec. ITU-R BT709-5 (Very good match - expect very slight increase in black density)
Good - Apple RGB (Close enough that informed decisions can be made)
Good - Generic RGB (Close enough that informed decisions can be made)

So I'll provide both the HD 709A and Rec. ITU-R BT709-5 icc display profiles and recommend that they switch to these on a hardware calibrated display. This should get them within a very good range (good enough to make remote approvals for internet content) on Mac / PC, on any of the main web browsers, and in Frame.io / Youtube / Vimeo. It's not a perfect solution but it will work well now until we get a much better level of standardization in the (hopefully) near future.

I'm definitely open to comments, thoughts, etc. so please share.