Proposal: Option for Default timeline start at 00:00:00:00

Hi there

Can we please get an option to set the default timeline to start at 00:00:00:00 in stead of 01:00:00:00 ?

I forget everytime I start a new project and then I have to create a new timeline and try to copy everything over to that when I realise the captions I made doesn't line up. And it is not always as easy as it sounds when you have markers and stuff...

I realize that I can set the time of "new timelines" to start at 00:00:00:00 but apparently that doesn't include the initial timeline you get when you start a new project.

Preferences>User>Editing

Change "start timecode".

what John said, and for me, that is a hard no, for instance, there is always countdown/slates/test signals before a master.... 01:00:00:00 is a proper start.

01:00:00:00 (and 10:00:00:00 in the U.K.) are standard program start timecodes. I see no reason to change that.

The captions issue with some external apps treating them after export is still to be considered ... I also prefer 01 but admit that letting it this way when the project contains captions/ST would lead to a mess in the end.
Maybe I didn't dig deep enough, but try with VLC for instance, you'll see.
That said, making a new TL start to 00:00 in the end only and pasting everything is quite easy

there is always countdown/slates/test signals before a master.

Useful for tapes and reels... Outdated nowadays.

there is always countdown/slates/test signals before a master.

Useful for tapes and reels... Outdated nowadays.

Unfortunately, broadcast and streaming deliverables still require them.

Also, I disagree partially.
Test signals and slates are still extremely useful. Test signal to confirm any color or gamma shift. Slates to confirm content/version of the show.

there is always countdown/slates/test signals before a master.

Useful for tapes and reels... Outdated nowadays.

Unfortunately, broadcast and streaming deliverables still require them.

I've delivered dozen of TV channels in Europe and Asia since the tapeless revolution, none of them require this. It has almost disappeared.

Also, I disagree partially.
Test signals and slates are still extremely useful. Test signal to confirm any color or gamma shift. Slates to confirm content/version of the show.

The metadatas might be used to help. Q/C tools too. By the way, you might have a correct gamma on a slate, it doesn't mean the feature's images will follow the same. That's a different source.

I've delivered dozen of TV channels in Europe and Asia since the tapeless revolution, none of them require this. It has almost disappeared.

Sure you want to oppose your POV to Walter here ?

The metadatas might be used to help. Q/C tools too. By the way, you might have a correct gamma on a slate, it doesn't mean the feature's images will follow the same. That's a different source.

Here in the USA bars and slate are still alive. Dying but alive.

Slate in metadata makes perfect sense. But metadata will not provide the same functionality as video bars.

Bars in a flatten whole file does not solve all video related issues but still a good way to check color and gamma levels.

there is always countdown/slates/test signals before a master.

Useful for tapes and reels... Outdated nowadays.

In the U.S., I still have to put slate and sometimes a 2 pop countdown. Depends on the station, etc. So, starting at 1:00:00:00 works for all of my broadcast work.

Hi there

I realize that I can set the time of "new timelines" to start at 00:00:00:00 but apparently that doesn't include the initial timeline you get when you start a new project.

As previously mentioned, you are incorrect. The User setting determines the start timecode of all new timelines in a new project. There is no default timeline in a new project until you create one.

Perhaps a bit off-topic but if I add clips to timeline using timecode (to get clips that are not back-to-back "time-aligned"), the clips are not placed at the start of the timeline but somewhere at a (to me seemingly random) place far "back" on the timeline? Is it somehow related to how the start time for the timeline is set, I have it at 0:00:00.00? The timecode I use is "wall clock time" so any placement except at the start of the timeline would seem totally random to me?

Hello,
If I use timecode, as in multicam for example, the timeline of my multicam clip begin with the TC start of my first clip and all the clips are at their timecode (thats the basis of multicam
When I edit, my timeline begin at 00:00:00:00 (arbitrary choice but useful for exchange with collaborators looking clips on diverse app, Vimeo, QT, VLC…).
But with the multicam timeline on the right TC, I can easely find the original image or sound of any erased part…
When I add clip to timeline using timecode, its not placed randomly but at the right place…
Jacques

there is always countdown/slates/test signals before a master.

Useful for tapes and reels... Outdated nowadays.

I dont know man...
Netflix
Disney
Amazon
Hulu
Sony
Paramount
and so on....
all require proper countdown/slate/textless at tail and so on... those are my clients.... and we deliver files (I think the master is ProresHQ those days...

there is always countdown/slates/test signals before a master.

Useful for tapes and reels... Outdated nowadays.

I dont know man...
Netflix
Disney
Amazon
Hulu
Sony
Paramount
and so on....
all require proper countdown/slate/textless at tail and so on... those are my clients.... and we deliver files (I think the master is ProresHQ those days...

Yep, nailed it. But I guess if you're a wedding videographer or a Youtuber, it doesn't matter.

The metadatas might be used to help. Q/C tools too. By the way, you might have a correct gamma on a slate, it doesn't mean the feature's images will follow the same. That's a different source.

Here in the USA bars and slate are still alive. Dying but alive.

Good thing. For once, Europe is technologically advanced and less conservative.

For IMF delivery specs, Netflix says the opposite:

Video must not contain commercial blacks.
Video must not contain color bars, bumpers, segment recaps or previews, advertisements, slates, ratings cards, FBI warning cards, VITC time code, placards, overlay branding or website link callouts before, during and/or after the program. URLs present during end credits are permissible.

https://partnerhelp.netflixstudios.com/ ... ifications

If you're going to persist in this claim, what European and Asian broadcasters accept digital files with no slates, bars, etc.?

If you're going to persist in this claim, what European and Asian broadcasters accept digital files with no slates, bars, etc.?

Arte, Canal+, RTBF, TF1, M6, ZDF, Astro...

Slates and bars requirements disappeared when they stopped using tapes.

ok gentlemen i will go to teh main guy at Company3 and tell them that from now on we will not use any slates!

problem solved.

Any published documents available, attesting to same?

Any published documents available, attesting to same?

Google is your friend.

Any published documents available, attesting to same?

Google is your friend.

Actually, it isn't. I took the trouble before to look, and couldn't find anything to confirm your claim. The EBU stuff is a bit dated, but absolutely specifies headers of various sorts for digital files. ITV has current requirements available, and they definitely want bars, etc. Anglo-Saxon backwardness?

itv.JPG (140.95 KiB) Viewed 1699 times

I'm talking about TV channels, not EBU. They're not harmonized for the starting timecode so they don't even follow the layout you quoted. For example, some use 00:00:00:00, others 01:00:00:00 or 10:00:00:00. It's a consequence of their history with tapes for those outside 00:00:00:00.

Canal+

TF1

ZDF

M6

Arte

RTBF

I can't find back Astro one... Sometimes, you can see in these documents the slates and color bars are still mentionned in the tape section when both files and tapes were still accepted (i.e. Canal+ one in 2013).

ok gentlemen i will go to teh main guy at Company3 and tell them that from now on we will not use any slates!

problem solved.

You should for Netflix IMF.

Okay, I started at the top, with Canal+. That document reads:

 Video.
The video signal compliant with "Broadcasters RFB Technical Recommendations" will be encoded
with the following characteristics:
 Video resolution HxV : 1920x1080i
 Field frequency : 50Hz ( 25i )
 Coding : MPEG2 Long GOP “XDCAM HD” 422P@HL 50Mb/s
 Fixed GOP of 12 IBBP ( N=12, M=3 )
 « Closed GOP » preferably.


So I went to look up "Broadcasters RFB Technical Recommendations". Among their specifications:

ficam.JPG (128.02 KiB) Viewed 1570 times

Look, I really don't care, no dog in the fight. Just curious.....

This is the previous recommandation from 2011. The latest one from 2016 is here: https://cst.fr/download/33/recommandati ... rt-040.pdf

Okay, that update specifies "The presence of lead-in elements before the first image, or after the
last useful image of the programme (black, neutral backgrounds) remain at the broadcaster’s discretion".

So it's your experience that none of the broadcasters you listed above specifies that a header of some kind proceeds the program? They're all content with a 00:00:00:00 (or equivalent) program start?

ok gentlemen i will go to teh main guy at Company3 and tell them that from now on we will not use any slates!

problem solved.

You should for Netflix IMF.

the whole post production has both slates and/or countdown, mostly for audio sync purposes and to keep track of the versions going back and forth with editorial, once you export the final colored master and create the IMF, then yes, all those are stripped and left with a second of black only.

that means, in resolve when we color, we have all of those.

Okay, that update specifies "The presence of lead-in elements before the first image, or after the
last useful image of the programme (black, neutral backgrounds) remain at the broadcaster’s discretion".

So it's your experience that none of the broadcasters you listed above specifies that a header of some kind proceeds the program? They're all content with a 00:00:00:00 (or equivalent) program start?

for what I recollect, when I was delivering for OWC we kept slates and a specific amount of blacks before FFOP, then program started at 01:00:00:00, and textless at end.

however, this discussion is a moot point: you can set in resolve the default starting point, just set it up and forget about it.

(and when we work on features, you work in reels with countdown starting at the hour with the hour matching the reel....)

So it's your experience that none of the broadcasters you listed above specifies that a header of some kind proceeds the program?

That's right.

They're all content with a 00:00:00:00 (or equivalent) program start?

Nope, 00:00:00:00 or 01:00:00:00 or 10:00:00:00. It depends.

Preferences>User>Editing

Change "start timecode".

As I wrote, I did already change it there, but the default timeline of every new timeline (when starting a new project) is still 01:00:00:00. Please check it yourself.

Surely, I can't be the only one finding this annoying. Please give us the option to change this, or just include the default timeline at the creation of a new project to the "new timeline" times in the preferences.

Hi there

I realize that I can set the time of "new timelines" to start at 00:00:00:00 but apparently that doesn't include the initial timeline you get when you start a new project.

As previously mentioned, you are incorrect. The User setting determines the start timecode of all new timelines in a new project. There is no default timeline in a new project until you create one.

Hi Peter,

I think you are mistaken. A timeline is created as soon as you go to the edit page in a newly created project. Try it out. Regardless of what time you have set new timelines to start at in preferences, it will start at 01:00:00:00.

I consider this a bug, by the way.

Surely, I can't be the only one finding this annoying. Please give us the option to change this, or just include the default timeline at the creation of a new project to the "new timeline" times in the preferences.

what John said, and for me, that is a hard no, for instance, there is always countdown/slates/test signals before a master.... 01:00:00:00 is a proper start.

Try it yourself, it doesn't work for the default timeline which is created when starting a new project.

I don't understand how anyone could be against a correction of a bug like this. How would your workflow be affected by allowing this?

Though I normally use a start time of 01:00:00:00, I just tested this and these are my findings.
Opened a new project and changed the start timecode to 00:00:00:00. Then opened media source, brought in a clip to the Media Pool and placed it on the timeline. Saved project and closed Resolve.

Opened Resolve and started new project. The default timeline still starts at 00:00:00:00. Added media to the Media Pool and placed it on the timeline. Again saved and closed Resolve.

Then did the same again and the timeline start timecode is still at 00:00:00:00. So for me Resolve is remembering the timeline timecode used in the previous project and is not defaulting to 01:00:00:00. I don't see any "bug".

Though I normally use a start time of 01:00:00:00, I just tested this and these are my findings.
Opened a new project and changed the start timecode to 00:00:00:00. Then opened media source, brought in a clip to the Media Pool and placed it on the timeline. Saved project and closed Resolve.

Opened Resolve and started new project. The default timeline still starts at 00:00:00:00. Added media to the Media Pool and placed it on the timeline. Again saved and closed Resolve.

Then did the same again and the timeline start timecode is still at 00:00:00:00. So for me Resolve is remembering the timeline timecode used in the previous project and is not defaulting to 01:00:00:00. I don't see any "bug".

This is not what I mean. Let me try to rephrase it:

Create a new project, give it a name, go to the edit tab. A timeline is created for you automatically.

Tell me what time it starts at.

My start timecode remains at 00:00:00:00, which is what I initially set when doing the tests. The zero setting has become the new default until I change it.

My start timecode remains at 00:00:00:00, which is what I initially set when doing the tests. The zero setting has become the new default until I change it.

Hi Charles, thanks for the swift reply.

Are you telling me that you are unable to reproduce the following bug?:

1. Create a new project, give it a name.
2. go to the edit tab where a timeline should be created for you automatically.

Result: timeline begins at 01:00:00:00 regardless of setting in preferences -> User -> Editing -> Start timeline set to 00:00:00:00

What version of Resolve are you using? (I'm using 18.1.4 Build 9 studio).

Now having reset it to 01:00:00:00 all new projects are using this as their start timecode.
I'm using Studio 18.1.4. I've been using Resolve for over 6 years and never had this problem.

Yes, I am unable to reproduce what you are seeing.

Now having reset it to 01:00:00:00 all new projects are using this as their start timecode.
I'm using Studio 18.1.4. I've been using Resolve for over 6 years and never had this problem.

-

Yes, I am unable to reproduce what you are seeing.

That's very strange.

Can anyone else reproduce the bug through the steps I wrote above?

Create a new project, give it a name, go to the edit tab. A timeline is created for you automatically.

That's not a timeline you're seeing. It's just the timeline panel.

Once you actually create a timeline, it will start at the value you set in Preferences.

Create a new project, give it a name, go to the edit tab. A timeline is created for you automatically.

That's not a timeline you're seeing. It's just the timeline panel.

Once you actually create a timeline, it will start at the value you set in Preferences.

Nope, there's definitely a timeline by default when you go to the edit page. The time is right there in the corner: 01:00:00:00

OK.

Run this test.

Create a new project. Look in the bins.

Do you have anything besides the Master? Is there any media? Are there any timelines?

OK.

Run this test.

Create a new project. Look in the bins.

Do you have anything besides the Master? Is there any media? Are there any timelines?

Hi Simon

You are right, the timeline is not actually created until I drag media onto the space where it normally is. Beyond that, the time DO shift from 01:00:00:00 to 00:00:00:00 when the timeline is created (by dragging media over there).

I'm sorry everyone, I just assumed it would start at 01:00:00:00 when that's what the clock was showing prior to the timeline actually existing. My bad. It actually works!

there is always countdown/slates/test signals before a master.

Useful for tapes and reels... Outdated nowadays.

not if you have to pass QC... like 100% of what i deliver
first thing i do when i get a project from a semi-pro editor is slid to a 1hr start
it's almost always a show cut on Pp by an editor who is starting out, or works on semi-pro stuff normaly and is cutting their first feature
union editors NEVER deliver show with a 00 start, never ever never
i never send a master out at a 00 start, never ever never

It actually works!

homer-approved.jpg (8.39 KiB) Viewed 638 times

there is always countdown/slates/test signals before a master.

Useful for tapes and reels... Outdated nowadays.

not if you have to pass QC... like 100% of what i deliver
first thing i do when i get a project from a semi-pro editor is slid to a 1hr start
it's almost always a show cut on Pp by an editor who is starting out, or works on semi-pro stuff normaly and is cutting their first feature
union editors NEVER deliver show with a 00 start, never ever never
i never send a master out at a 00 start, never ever never

Have you got any pointers to anything else like that, that those of us who aren't professional editors but who would like to "up our game" should know about?

I start at 01:00:00:00 because that's how the tape-based stuff did it in the olden days...