Resolution affecting thumbnails

Hi guys. So my standard is to import 4k footage and edit at 1080 in the timeline. I scale down my footage to 50% to have everything in frame in the viewer. However, when I do that, the thumbnails reduce the size to 50% in both the media and the timeline.

So I can either scale back up to 100% to append my clips, then scale back down in the timeline, which is tedious, or I can deal with 50% thumbnails.

Is there something I am missing? If I don't scale down to 50% in the media viewer, it's zoomed in too much to watch the clips.

You shouldn't have to do scaling anywhere as long as you've configured your project settings - make sure that the "Image Scaling" section's "Input Scaling" option is set to "Scale entire image to fit".

You can also control this on a clip-by-clip basis in the Inspector panel for the clip under "Retime and Scaling".

When you do this, oversized clips will be automatically shrunk to fit into the timeline resolution, and undersized clips will automatically be scaled up. Thumbnails won't be affected.

I'm keeping center crop because I don't want the image scaled under after I color grade. Unless I'm mistaking, scaling the image will downscale my 4k to 1080, but the only reason i'm shooting in 4k is to have more data to color grade (and crop/stabilize/digital zoom with extra wiggle room if needed).

I'm keeping center crop because I don't want the image scaled under after I color grade. Unless I'm mistaking, scaling the image will downscale my 4k to 1080, but the only reason i'm shooting in 4k is to have more data to color grade (and crop/stabilize/digital zoom with extra wiggle room if needed).

But the extra latitude for color grading comes from a higher bit depth, not a higher resolution, doesn't it? If you're shooting in 4K 10-bit color, for example, setting the image to fit will downscale it to 1080 but it won't change the color depth. You should have the same room to push and pull the tonal curves.

Basically correct, but downscaling can generate some intermediate values if the source is 8 bit only. Beyond 8 bit it shouldn't make any visible difference.

the thumbnails reduce the size to 50% in both the media and the timeline.

Say what now?!

I'm trying to understand the OP's question - sounds like the OP is zooming the source clip in the media pool (to 50%) so that the entire clip can be seen in the source viewer but this makes the thumbnails scaled as well, is that the case? I'm not sure there is any way around this. You could start off with project settings scaling the image to fit and then selectively change this per clip when you need more latitude.

If you let Resolve fit the UHD clip to a HD frame and then zoom in a bit later, I'm not sure how much degradation you would get. Depends on scaling setting and if you zoomed in to 200% exactly, I'm expecting that there would be no degradation (but I'm not 100% sure of this, could be round-off errors). Anyone know for certain?

If you use either Scale option in the Project Settings>Input Scaling, then you can zoom into a UHD clip in an HD timeline up to 2 without interpolation. Resolve will use the original resolution.

zooming the source clip in the media pool

How does one do that?

zooming the source clip in the media pool

How does one do that?

With the inspector. I'm not in front of my machine at the moment. I'll have to give this a try to confirm what the OP has observed.

I don't see the thumbnails changing when I try that, though.

I do. Both the thumbnail in the media pool and the thumbnail on the timeline are at 50%. This is on my MacBook running 18.5b3.

However, the source viewer also shows the 50% size which counters what I thought was the OP's original concern.

Frankly, I would suggest setting the timeline setting to scale image to fit and then recompose as necessary rather than using this 50% source clip approach.

What are the exact steps, Steve? Maybe I'm doing it wrong.

Select the clip in the media pool of the edit page. The inspector > Transform will now show you the values corresponding to the media pool clip, not the timeline. Change the zoom to 0.5 (x,y). Scrub over the clip in the media pool to refresh the thumbnail (in thumbnail view, of course) and you should see the thumbnail change to show a reduced size thumbnail. I have the timeline input scaling set to center crop, no resizing based on the OP's setting. Drop the clip on the timeline and you will see that the timeline thumbnail is also reduced in size.

But the extra latitude for color grading comes from a higher bit depth, not a higher resolution, doesn't it? If you're shooting in 4K 10-bit color, for example, setting the image to fit will downscale it to 1080 but it won't change the color depth. You should have the same room to push and pull the tonal curves.

Basically correct, but downscaling can generate some intermediate values if the source is 8 bit only. Beyond 8 bit it shouldn't make any visible difference.

It's not obvious to me that the deleterious effect on 8-bit video would be any different if you manually "pre-downscale" the clip in the media pool or allow it to be "automatically" downscaled by using the "Fit" option on the timeline.

Select the clip in the media pool of the edit page. The inspector > Transform will now show you the values corresponding to the media pool clip, not the timeline. Change the zoom to 0.5 (x,y). Scrub over the clip in the media pool to refresh the thumbnail (in thumbnail view, of course) and you should see the thumbnail change to show a reduced size thumbnail. I have the timeline input scaling set to center crop, no resizing based on the OP's setting. Drop the clip on the timeline and you will see that the timeline thumbnail is also reduced in size.

That is correct, this has been my method to retain 4k, but edit in 1080. I do not want to scale, not just because of color grading (and what people have said about the resolution for the bit depth is new to me, I'm going to research that further). But also for digital zoom, crop, and stabalize. I do a lot of event videography, and it's a lot of run and gun type shooting.

So is there a way to deal with this without scaling?

I do not want to scale, not just because of color grading (and what people have said about the resolution for the bit depth is new to me, I'm going to research that further). But also for digital zoom, crop, and stabalize. I do a lot of event videography, and it's a lot of run and gun type shooting.

So is there a way to deal with this without scaling?

If you leave the source clip at its original scale and set the project properties to scale clips to fit the timeline, you'll still be able to stabilize, zoom in and pan around using the transform controls in the timeline inspector panel and you won't loose any resolution. You'll still be able to scale a 2160 clip up to 2X in a 1080 timeline without loosing any of the resolution that was in the original clip. This is the simplest way to do it and there really aren't any drawbacks to it.

Scrub over the clip in the media pool to refresh the thumbnail

That's the part I was missing.

Thanks.

I do not want to scale, not just because of color grading (and what people have said about the resolution for the bit depth is new to me, I'm going to research that further). But also for digital zoom, crop, and stabalize. I do a lot of event videography, and it's a lot of run and gun type shooting.

So is there a way to deal with this without scaling?

If you leave the source clip at its original scale and set the project properties to scale clips to fit the timeline, you'll still be able to stabilize, zoom in and pan around using the transform controls in the timeline inspector panel and you won't loose any resolution. You'll still be able to scale a 2160 clip up to 2X in a 1080 timeline without loosing any of the resolution that was in the original clip. This is the simplest way to do it and there really aren't any drawbacks to it.

What are the settings for this? I'll keep the timeline resolution as 1080p, and output settings to match the timeline, and then image scaling as...? I've been doing center crop, no resizing. Or am I supposed to change just the monitor settings?

If you leave the source clip at its original scale and set the project properties to scale clips to fit the timeline, you'll still be able to stabilize, zoom in and pan around using the transform controls in the timeline inspector panel and you won't loose any resolution.

What are the settings for this? I'll keep the timeline resolution as 1080p, and output settings to match the timeline, and then image scaling as...? I've been doing center crop, no resizing. Or am I supposed to change just the monitor settings?

First of all, remove any scaling from the clips in the media pool.

Next, open up the project settings ("File" on the Menu Bar, then "Project Settings"). Click on the "Image Scaling" section in the left pane, then go down to the "Input Scaling" section in the right pane and make sure that the "Mismatched Resolution files" setting is configured as "Scale entire image to fit". (This can also be controlled on a per-clip basis using the Inspector panel on the Edit page under "Retime and Scaling).

With this set in the project properties, when you go into the Edit page and drag clips with a higher resolution than the timeline onto the timeline, they will automatically be downscaled so that the entire image fits in the timeline frame. This works great for clips that have the same aspect ratio as the timeline - for clips with a different aspect ratio you'll end up with black bars on the top or the sides so that the entire frame of the original clip is still visible.

On the Edit page you can adjust the inspector panel properties to scale the clip and adjust its position, and you can use keyframes to animate these too. Basically you can work with the clip exactly as if you had shot it at 1080, except that you'll be able to zoom in up to 2X without loosing any of the resolution that's present in the original 2160 footage.

If you want to zoom in even further than 2X, an option is to go back to the media page, open up the clip attributes for the clip and set its "Super Scale" property to 2X or more. This will effectively double its resolution using Resolve's "Neural Engine" (requires the Studio version). This, in theory at least, uses a smarter scaling algorithm than merely changng the Media Page Transform properties for the clip, and it should (in theory) allow you to zoom in past 2X on the Edit page without the result looking too soft.