Want adjustment clip to affect next layer underneath only

Hello.

On the Edit page I have a layer LO and on top of it there's a layer HI.
Layer HI has to be on layer LO. I can't swap them.

Now I have an adjustment clip on top of layer HI. Layer HI has a series of multiple clips. I want to control them all with the adjustment layer. The adjustment layer contains an animated circle mask with an alpha mask output on the Color page.

Problem: The mask is applied to layer LO as well. I want it to affect layer HI only. How can I achieve this? In other applicatons like Photoshop etc. there's a checkbox somewhere that sets the authority of the adjustment layer to all layers below it or just to the next layer underneath the adjustment layer.

Thank you.

Layer HI has to be on layer LO. I can't swap them.

Why that ?
Because the basic adjustment clip logic would be to swap them indeed and put the AC just on top of the desired track...
Now, I personally almost never use adjustment clips §though I know it's super handy) so I know what I would do instead, and it would probably be a group in Color

Layer HI has to be on layer LO. I can't swap them.

Why that ?

Because the clips in layer HI have a smaller image size than those in layer LO. And their positions are animated while the clip in layer LO has a fixed position. If I were to swap them, the smaller sized clips would be invisible.

Because the basic adjustment clip logic would be to swap them indeed and put the AC just on top of the desired track...

I know, that's why explicitly mentioned that I can't swap them :-)

My current solution is to turn layer HI into a compound clip and to put that animated circle mask into that compound clip.

My current solution is to turn layer HI into a compound clip and to put that animated circle mask into that compound clip.

Yes, that is the way to do it. I didn't see you post that is what you did, so I already wrote the same. But yes that is the way to do it.

If you don't want to do this in Fusion, think of it like this… adjustment clip affect what is beaneath them , so if you want to apply a mask to only some but not all layers on tracks, you need a diferentan type of clip adjustment. Compound clip. Select the clips you want on any of the tracks and right click… new compound clip. This will put them in a container smilar to smart filter or smart object in Photoshop and than you can apply your mask that won't affect everything. You can still add adjustment clip on top or bellow it for other types of adjustments. Or do it on individual clip basis.

My current solution is to turn layer HI into a compound clip and to put that animated circle mask into that compound clip.

Ah ok... Glad to read there was actually no huge issue in the first place

Actually, it's still not what I want. In Fusion or when using a compound clip on the Edit page I can't see the other clips underneath while working on a clip of the compound container. That's a huge problem. I need to see them. They are my reference when I'm designing the positional animation of the upper clips in relation to the clips underneath. When I open the compound clip in another timeline, I see just the clips of the compound container. Same problem when color grading the upper layer in relation to the lower layer. When the viewer shows all layers, which is what I want, I can't adjust the color grading of any clip inside the compound container.

You might try exporting the various clips from HI into a single clip and using that for editing. Cineform, DNx and ProRes are all good choices for this type of thing.

You are still a bit unclear about what you want, only what you don't want. Lets start from scratch, what is it that you want exactly, and if possible post some screenshots or something.

If you want to affect everything use adjustment clip.

If you want to affect some clips but not others, up and down , left and right on the timeline use compound clip.

If you want to adjust something in fusion but use it like compound clip, use fusion clip.

If you want more than that, use fusion, period.

If you want to color grade individual elements do it in color page. If you want masking with color grading either do it in fusion page, or color page. Leave edit page for what is meant to be, editing.

Thank you all for the kind replies.

You might try exporting the various clips from HI into a single clip and using that for editing. Cineform, DNx and ProRes are all good choices for this type of thing.

I do that sometimes. But it's awkward. Whenever I notice a little unwanted detail, I need to re-export the whole thing. This method doesn't allow interdependent adjustments here and there at the same time.

You are still a bit unclear about what you want, only what you don't want.

It's as simple as I wrote in my first post.

This is what I want:

Layer LO has some clips with fixed positions and with perfect color grading. That's done.

Layer HI has some clips on which I want to do color grading and position animation in relation to the stuff in layer LO. Each clip in layer HI needs individual color gradings and individual position animations. Therefore, these individual color gradings and animations will be created clip by clip and not within a common adjustment layer or compound layer.

Additionally, layer HI should get an animated circle mask with alpha output; this circle mask will float gradually across the entire series of clips in layer HI. So this overall mask animation would be a nice candidate for a timeline-wide adjustment clip or compound clip.

While doing color grading and animation in layer HI, I need to see layer LO.

When working with the clips inside the compound clip in layer HI, the viewer in Edit and Color doesn't show layer LO.

Same problem in Fusion; there I don't even see any color grading at all.

I think the problem could be better solved if there was an adjustment layer option for just the layer underneath.

Sounds like you are creating unnecessarily a whole lot of problems for yourself, because you are trying to do this in edit page, instead of fusion or color page of both.

This could be done easily in both fusion or color page, but lets say you want to work in color page, you can see both individual clips as thumbnails and as mini timeline you can select what you need, even group them for color grading. You can add mask and animate it. If you want to you can group your individual layers with whatever color grading you want and apply new one on top. You can create a Either apply your mask to a compound clip, or fusion clip or use mats in the color page for whatever you like. Anything other than basic set ups, edit page becomes less ideal to work with. Which is why afte edit page come all the other pages, its a hint of the suggested workflow.

If you are dealing with masking and animation I would suggest fusion. If you are dealing with color grading, probably color page, but fusion can do it a well. if you are editing, do it in edit or cut page. That is how they were meant to be used. While its possible to go beyond that, its not ideal. It seems to me that what you are trying to do is everything on the edit page that should be better done in other pages, so in the process you create new problems, you would otherwise avoid. That is bigger problem than features.

I would suggest your scrap doing this in edit page all together. Do your animation and compositing in fusion and color grade it in color page, and only use edit page for length of composition and edit of individual clips if they are part larger project and timeline creation of course. Trying to squeeze it back to edit page after the fact, creates far more problems for yourself than you need. Now you have to try to solve problems that you could have avoided by taking a different route.

Thanks. I'll check.

But how can I color grade various media clips within a Fusion clip individually on the Color page? When I make a Fusion clip that contains multiple nodes and media layers, I just see one single clip in Color: Just that single Fusion clip. When I color grade that Fusion clip, all media inside that Fusion clip will get the same color grading. I need individual color control. On the Color page, of course. (I don't do color grading with color nodes in Fusion.)

P.S.: The problem with position animations on the Color page is: The Color page has no "ease" options and no bezier handles, as far as I can see.

But how can I color grade various media clips within a Fusion clip individually on the Color page?

Fusion clip serves several purposes. Its good to know what they are so you can use it appropriately.

Fusion typically sources footage from media pool, meaning its not cropped, its not color graded, or from loader meaning its possibly not even in media pool, or it can get preview of all that is stacked on the timeline for reference. Generally fusion works with virgin clips. This is good because of various reasons for VFX work, but if you want to force fusion to work with clips as they are already color graded in color page and cropped in edit page, etc.

Fusion Clips Inherit the Timeline Resolution

If you combine multiple clips on the Timeline into a Fusion clip, the Fusion page is set to the timeline resolution, regardless of the source resolution of the clip. The image is then output to the Edit page at this timeline resolution, and all subsequent sizing adjustments are performed relative to the timeline resolution, with no reference to the original resolution in the source clip.

Transforms from the Fusion Page to the Edit Page

All transform operations you apply on the Cut, Edit, and Color pages are resolution independent, referring to the original resolution of the source media, so long as you don’t use the Fusion page. For example, if you shrink an image to 20% in the Edit page (using Edit sizing controls) and then enlarge it in the Color page back to 100% (using Input sizing controls), you end up with an image that has all the resolution and sharpness of the original media, because the final resolution is drawn from the original source media.

However, once you use the Fusion page to do anything to a clip, from adding a small effect to creating a complex composition, the resolution-independent relationship of the Edit and Color pages to the source media is broken, and whatever resolution is output from your Fusion composition is the new effective resolution of the clip that appears in the Timeline. This means if you shrink an image to 20% in the Fusion page (using a Transform node) and then enlarge it in the Color page by 150%, you end up with an image that isn’t as sharp as the original because the down converted image in the Fusion page is effectively the new source resolution of that clip.

As long as you keep that in mind, you can work in all different pages appropriately and retain information you need and discard what you don't need.

If you have more than one track stacked on top of each other and you make a fusion clip from that. I will open the color graded clips with timeline resolution as fusion composition withe merge nodes used to connect the clips same way they were done on timeline. That way you can keep the resolution of the timeline and color grading backed in while working with multiple files in fusion doing what you need.

If you want to color change individual clips, you can click on the fusion clip and choose open in timeline and you will see new timeline with clips still as they were before you made fusion clip. You can go to color page and make color adjustments if you like and it will update. So you can retain your original color grading and resolution in the fusion clip, while still taking advantage of animation and compositing in fusion.

Just choose for the fusion clip, open in fusion page, or open in timeline and you will see what I mean,

When I make a Fusion clip that contains multiple nodes and media layers, I just see one single clip in Color: Just that single Fusion clip. When I color grade that Fusion clip, all media inside that Fusion clip will get the same color grading. I need individual color control. On the Color page, of course. (I don't do color grading with color nodes in Fusion.)

The workflow of events I explained in the previous section will help you retain the color grading link in fusion clip all the way from source clip when you started the process.

However sometimes or for other reasons you may want to color grade with mats you made in fusion but in the edit page. You can add media out nodes, 2, 3, 4 etc and connect your mats to that and than in the color page when you click on the node tree and choose add source you can use those mats to grade based of that. Or you can export the mats as image sequance and use them in the color page as mats that way. Its just one more way to work, but depending on what you need or what you can set it up to be very flexible and easy. When you go against how things work, because you don't know how or refuse to use it as it was meant to be, its when you create problems for yourself you don't need.

Another thing to keep in mind is that you can also work by duplicating just some tracks and clips to a new track and applying adjustment layer to only those. You can also create a new timeline do your masking or whatever you need and copy / paste the results back in your original timeline etc. They all will retain link to source clips in media pool so you are not making them larger, its just another way to work.

P.S.: The problem with position animations on the Color page is: The Color page has no "ease" options and no bezier handles, as far as I can see.

Actually the problem is trying to use color page for animation that should be done in fusion, but if must use it or really want to, there is option to use static and dynamic key frames for color and sizing controls. Static is linear and dynamic is easing in and out. If you want to change the curve, you can click on the keyframes in the keyframes panel and choose change dynamic attributes from the right mouse click menu. You will get new dialog box with a curve and two slides that is essentially bezier handles functionality.

Personally I would avoid color or edit page for animation of anything more serious and use fusion page. You have all you need there and if you follow some basic principles of how resolve works, you can do all you need and have no real compromises.

Thank you for all the fine tips.

OK, I've started to use Fusion more often and it looks like I'll finally get used to it, ha :-)

I also like the fact that the option of a good motion blur is already included in the translate and merge nodes.

I still have a wish for the Color page ergonomics:

Let's take a simple picture-in-picture thing (PIP). If I create a PIP on the Edit page by putting a smaller clip A on top of a larger clip B, I can see the entire, correct PIP composite on the Color page as well. On the Color page I select clip A and grade clip A. I do the same with clip B. No matter what I select -- A or B -- the Color page always shows both A and B as they are set in their PIP design. That's fine.

However, when I create a PIP in a Fusion clip, unfortunately there's no way to get that PIP look into the Color page's Viewer. On the Edit page I right-click the Fusion clip and select "Open in timeline". In that timeline, clips A and B are separated so that I can color grade them separately. OK. But when I'm grading I need to see the entire PIP. I want to see the entire PIP context. Is that possible?

I still have a wish for the Color page ergonomics:

Let's take a simple picture-in-picture thing (PIP). If I create a PIP on the Edit page by putting a smaller clip A on top of a larger clip B, I can see the entire, correct PIP composite on the Color page as well. On the Color page I select clip A and grade clip A. I do the same with clip B. No matter what I select -- A or B -- the Color page always shows both A and B as they are set in their PIP design. That's fine.

However, when I create a PIP in a Fusion clip, unfortunately there's no way to get that PIP look into the Color page's Viewer. On the Edit page I right-click the Fusion clip and select "Open in timeline". In that timeline, clips A and B are separated so that I can color grade them separately. OK. But when I'm grading I need to see the entire PIP. I want to see the entire PIP context. Is that possible?

If you choose to work in this way, simply make this set up or something similar, depending on what kind of masking and how many clips you are doing, and besides fusion can do anything in 20 ways. So this is one way.

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In the color page, you should see a composite view and if you grade that all will be affected.

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Sounds like you are creating unnecessarily a whole lot of problems for yourself, because you are trying to do this in edit page, instead of fusion or color page of both.

I agree. I think there are a lot of people coming to Resolve and trying to force (for example) an "Adobe Premiere" way of doing things, rather than embracing the separate approach used in Resolve: Color page for color changes, Fusion pages for VFX changes, Edit page for sizing/transition changes. People have to understand that -- at least to me -- either the Adjustment Level or a Timeline correction are kind of "last ditch" places to do anything. Both of them are problematic, particularly if you need these adjustments to ignore some clips. To me, people have to learn how to use Resolve the way it was designed, rather than using a sledgehammer to force Resolve to bend to their will based on prior software.

Exactly. I think most people also miss the sizing panel in color page which is like the edit page (input sizing) plus all the other controls for output sizing, node sizing, blanking etc. So they end up breaking the line of operations when they use for example magic mask on color page and than try to go back to edit and change things, missing the way downstream vs upstream processing works. Yesterday someone was trying to make color page be like edit page and they refuse to use edit page. The other day someone was trying to color grade on the edit page.

I think you are right. Coming from Adobe many users try to force resolve to be replacement 1 to 1 and get frustrated when its not, instead of trying to understand the advantages of what Resolve is offering natively. Fusion is often seen as just a fancy title editor instead of anything else. One person was asking that fusion should be just layers instead of nodes because he knows After Effects. Stuff like that. When things don't work as expected, its often the instinct of these types of individuals to blame the software or throw tantrums, instead of learning a new way to work.

In the color page, you should see a composite view and if you grade that all will be affected.

That's exactly the problem. I don't want to affect each different clip of the PIP by the same grading. As I wrote above, I want to grade each clip of the PIP separately while seeing the entire PIP.

On the Color page, I want to select clip A of the PIP and grade clip A only.
Also, on the Color page, I want to select clip B of the PIP and grade clip B only.

I do not want to put A and B into the same color grading. Each clip needs its own grading.

When I grade each clip of the PIP separately, the Color page doesn't show the entire PIP composite, and that's the problem.

A is my color reference for B and vice versa. I grade a little bit on A, then a little bit on B, then on A again, then on B etc. Like cooking a meal with noodles and salad. Like mixing a song with piano and violin. Like drawing a picture with pencil and brush. I want to have both A and B on my desk while working individually on A and individually on B.

That's why I have been using the Edit page. Edit page composites are shown on the Color page as they appear on the Edit page. And the Color page still allows me to grade each clip of the PIP separately.

I've been using Resolve for 2 years now. Before that I used Final Cut. I love Resolve. I'm always open for suggestions. I don't blame anything.

That's exactly the problem. I don't want to affect each different clip of the PIP by the same grading. As I wrote above, I want to grade each clip of the PIP separately while seeing the entire PIP.

Oh, God its like you are chasing your own tail. I think I lost count of "I don't want" and forgot all the "I want" you have been writing.

Just scrap the whole nonsense about edit page, and do it all in fusion and color page or all in fusion. its all there. This, whatever idea you had cooked up, originally, only makes things worse by each reply. You could do all this easily if you didn't insist in complicated "chasing your own tail" workflow that makes no sense.

That's why I have been using the Edit page. Edit page composites are shown on the Color page as they appear on the Edit page. And the Color page still allows me to grade each clip of the PIP separately.

[/quote]

Talking about shooting yourself in the proverbial foot. Why do you insist on this complicated backward workflow? Scrap that whole thing.

I'm sure there are ten more complicated elements you will say, but lets start with logical first. I don't know all the other ideas you have about how things should work, but I'll give it a try one more, so you want picture in picture and you want to grade individual clips while keeping picture in picture?

Here is a bunch of clips on timeline with different lengths and different tracks. They have picture in picture and can be graded individually and as a group.

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In the fusion page, per clip add a mask you want, and open clip thumbnail view so you can middle mouse button copy paste the effect from fusion to other clips, same way you copy grade in color page.

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You now have picture in picture for each clip you want, you have no groups or anything, you can color grade them in color page individually, in clip mode, or as a whole in timeline mode.

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The only problem I see here is your own bizarre ideas about how to complicate your life some more. I'm sure you have 20 more "I don't want" waiting in line, but maybe you should throw them in the trash bin and start using resolve as it is meant to be used which allows for tones of flexibility except self sabotage.

If you really want to go down the rabbit hole of shooting yourself in the foot, ouch! workflow, here is another way you can set it all up.

Throw a bunch of clips on the timeline as you like, add the clip or clips you want to see as background on another timeline.

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If the first timeline add an adjustment clip on top of everything and open it in fusion page. And set it up like this. Remember you can drag timelines to be used as clips in fusion.

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Now you have a composite with clips from two timelines and animated mask.

Now in the color page you can either use clip/timeline mode and color grade individual or whole stack, or you can do it on the adjustment clip with animated mask.

If you want to, for some reason, you can open the other timeline in edit page, as stack timeline and grade the background clips.

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Of course it would be a lot easier if you did it in stages or in fusion all togeather, but if you insist on complicating your life...

If the first timeline add an adjustment clip on top of everything and open it in fusion page. And set it up like this. Remember you can drag timelines to be used as clips in fusion.

Aha! :-) Just learned something new. That looks interesting. I'll try it ...

Thank you very much!

... but if you insist on complicating your life...

Why are you thinking I would insist on something? I don't insist on anything. I'm here to learn. Maybe you're confusing me with another forum member? :-)

OK, I've started to use Fusion more often and it looks like I'll finally get used to it, ha

I got my start in Adobe Premiere Pro and I have to say that when I first tried out Resolve after going through the training materials the network and node-based approach of the Colour and Fusion pages was a real eye opener. It blows the layer-based approach that I had been fighting with in Premiere right out of the water. It takes a bit of a different mindset to really get it, but IMHO if you invest some time in going through the training it will pay off handsomely by saving you effort and frustration, and it will open up a lot of creative possibilities.

I liked the node system from the start. I never returned to Final Cut.

Sounds like you are creating unnecessarily a whole lot of problems for yourself, because you are trying to do this in edit page, instead of fusion or color page of both.

I agree. I think there are a lot of people coming to Resolve and trying to force (for example) an "Adobe Premiere" way of doing things, rather than embracing the separate approach used in Resolve: Color page for color changes, Fusion pages for VFX changes, Edit page for sizing/transition changes. People have to understand that -- at least to me -- either the Adjustment Level or a Timeline correction are kind of "last ditch" places to do anything. Both of them are problematic, particularly if you need these adjustments to ignore some clips. To me, people have to learn how to use Resolve the way it was designed, rather than using a sledgehammer to force Resolve to bend to their will based on prior software.

Thanks all for the interesting thread (OP for the question, others for the in depth answers).
I learned a lot.

I do wonder though if the original point being made in the title of the OP, has been lost a little bit.
We certainly should embrace the way Resolve IS, as opposed to what some of us may have been used to in the past in other packages. That said, I keep coming back to the question of whether there is any good reason why the adjustment clip can't be set to affect only the clip beneath it, as opposed to all clips beneath it. That would make it a far more flexible and useful tool. Some have admitted here that they don't use it precisely because of its limitations, after all. In my admittedly limited understanding, this would appear to be the simplest way to allow the OP to do what he wanted to do while maintaining reference visibility on the timeline and not needing to dive into a different context for what is, after all, a pretty simple manipulation. Changing contexts introduces complexity and micro-decision fatigue, which we all know negatively impacts productivity in the long run.

I came to this thread being fully aware I could make a compound clip to isolate the one layer I wanted to affect, and also being aware I could get my desired result by working in Fusion, but I searched for a means of using the adjustment clip on a single layer anyway, because that would have been, in my view, the simplest and most functional way in many situations. I'm sorry to see it isn't possible, and if there is no technical reason preventing it, I hope one day it is.

...I keep coming back to the question of whether there is any good reason why the adjustment clip can't be set to affect only the clip beneath it, as opposed to all clips beneath it. That would make it a far more flexible and useful tool.

The problem of how many lower layers an adjustment is supposed to affect, especially when you start including masking, is exactly why the node based approaches in the color and fusion pages are so much more powerful than the layer-based approach of the edit page. Because what if you want an adjustment layer to affect the next TWO layers? Or layers 2 and 4? And you may have other adjustments that you want to apply to different sets of layers. And how do you clearly communicate in the GUI what layers an adjustment affects, so that when you come back to your project in a months' time you can understand what it is you've done?

IMHO it all just gets really messy with layers, and is really very simple and intuitive once you understand how to use nodes.

Because what if you want an adjustment layer to affect the next TWO layers? Or layers 2 and 4?

Then I'd put the adjustment layer on layer 2, and another one on layer 4 :-)

I see it this way: Resolve provides two worlds. One world is specialized in the horizontal dimension (Cut, Edit), and the other world is specialized in the vertical dimension (Fusion, Color). Both words can work in either dimension, but either world is specialized in just one particular dimension.

One could actually get rid of the Cut and Edit pages and do all the timeline stuff (horizontal dimension) in Fusion with its mediaIn nodes and their in- and out-point selections.

But that wouldn't be nice. So, when nodes are helpful, I go to Color or Fusion. And when the horizontal timeline workbench is helpful, I go to Cut or Edit.

Of course, the Edit page is better for the timeline stuff, and the adjustment layer is a timeline feature. As the Edit page is specialized for the horizontal dimension, why restrict its usage? Why force the adjustment layer into an all-or-nothing logic? The option "single or all" is not complicated; all graphic programs with a layering system have it. Timeline tasks are much easier to do in Edit; that's why there's an Edit page. If nodes were even better in timeline tasks -- if nodes were really so universal --, why not remove the Edit page from Resolve entirely?

That said, I keep coming back to the question of whether there is any good reason why the adjustment clip can't be set to affect only the clip beneath it, as opposed to all clips beneath it.

I've been wondering the same.
Maybe it's my lack of knowledge on nodes. But I feel it would be super-useful to be able to add an adjustment layer and be able to tell it "only work on tracks x and y".

In the first timeline add an adjustment clip on top of everything and open it in fusion page. And set it up like this. Remember you can drag timelines to be used as clips in fusion.

This is a great tip - adding the adjustment clip as the top track allows Fusion to see all layers in the nested timeline. Without this Fusion sees only the top-most clip in the timeline (which surprised me, actually). I'm describing the case where you drag a whole timeline from the media pool into a Fusion comp.

...I keep coming back to the question of whether there is any good reason why the adjustment clip can't be set to affect only the clip beneath it, as opposed to all clips beneath it. That would make it a far more flexible and useful tool.

The problem of how many lower layers an adjustment is supposed to affect, especially when you start including masking, is exactly why the node based approaches in the color and fusion pages are so much more powerful than the layer-based approach of the edit page. Because what if you want an adjustment layer to affect the next TWO layers? Or layers 2 and 4? And you may have other adjustments that you want to apply to different sets of layers. And how do you clearly communicate in the GUI what layers an adjustment affects, so that when you come back to your project in a months' time you can understand what it is you've done?

IMHO it all just gets really messy with layers, and is really very simple and intuitive once you understand how to use nodes.

Yup, I can certainly see how it would become complicated if you're trying to make the adjustment clip single out several layers. But that's not the use case under discussion when the ask is to be able to affect only the clip below, when desired. So effectively, you've countered a suggestion for a tool to become a bit more flexible, with the objection that it can't pragmatically become infinitely flexible. I still believe it would be great to have two options: affect all clips beneath, and affect only clip directly beneath. That would be easy to keep track of with a simple icon on the adjustment clip, indicating what mode it is in.

In any case, all good. Resolve remains insanely good value for money.

Another strike against adjustment layers... coincidentally at the same time I wrote the post above, I was troubleshooting a render failure (also not a very joyous experience without logs). It turns out there is an adjustment layer in the timeline that does nothing (perhaps the editor placed it on the timeline, then got distracted and never set it to do anything)... and this adjustment layer is the cause for my render failure. If I disable it, the render goes through. Pretty nutty!