Blackmagic Forum

Reading the changelog for 19.1 one point got me worried: Copy & Pasting is now applied to the location of the playhead, not the In/Out Points.

Before I update (I'm in the middle of a project) I'd love to know if I could revert to the old behavior with this new version? I made great use of copy and pasting multiple clips to an out point in the timeline, does this still work? Or is it always the playhead from now on?
How would I implement my workflow of copy and pasting (multiple!) clips to the in/out points in 19.1?

Cheers and thank you!

Btw THANK you for finally implementing the correct track targeting from timeline to timeline... bothered me for years and I made several threads and suggestions about it. Can't wait to have this functionality back (Avid)!

Paste is always to the playhead now. If you have an out point defined, SHIFT+O to jump the playhead to the outpoint and then CMD+V to paste. Note that the action of pasting clears the in/out points from what I have observed in YouTube demos of 'What's new in 19.1'.

So it's not possible to copy clips so their end is adjacent to the out point anymore?
So they actually took functionality away? I use this technique all the time and I'll probably need to stick to 19.0.3 then?

Ah - I see, you were looking to use copy and paste like 3-point editing where the copy is the in/out in source viewer terms and the paste is an insert to an out-point such that the end of the source (copy) aligns with the out-point (paste). I've never used copy and paste that way so I didn't consider it. That's unfortunate to lose functionality. I would normally accomplish what you are describing using source viewer insert or overwrite into the timeline with an output in the timeline but I realize that it's not the same as copy and paste from a range of clips selected in the timeline. I wonder if there is a workaround to accomplish your needs?

Yes, unfortunately the functionality has been removed ... perhaps now they've made paste work 'like Avid' they will also add the complementary (' Copy into Source') feature that Avid has, that would allow previously established Resolve workflows to continue without issue.

Steve Alexander wrote:Ah - I see, you were looking to use copy and paste like 3-point editing where the copy is the in/out in source viewer terms and the paste is an insert to an out-point such that the end of the source (copy) aligns with the out-point (paste). I've never used copy and paste that way so I didn't consider it. That's unfortunate to lose functionality. I would normally accomplish what you are describing using source viewer insert or overwrite into the timeline with an output in the timeline but I realize that it's not the same as copy and paste from a range of clips selected in the timeline. I wonder if there is a workaround to accomplish your needs?

You got it exactly. Of course 3 point editing stills works with the source monitor but if you want to shuffle around some clips to certain points that need to end on that very beat: That's no longer working.
I didn't call it 3 point editing but I shoud rather call it 3 point copy & pasting which used to be a thing that I loved about Resolve.

Andy Mees wrote:Yes, unfortunately the functionality has been removed ... perhaps now they've made paste work 'like Avid' they will also add the complementary (' Copy into Source') feature that Avid has, that would allow previously established Resolve workflows to continue without issue.

That would work for me although it would populate the source monitor which isn't exactly necessary in my opinion. TBH I think they should have left it as it was, since pasting to the playhead was there already you just had to clear your in and out points which I know every editor that edited at least twice in their career has a shortcut to (shift + b for me btw)

jade film wrote:So they actually took functionality away?

Yup.

Not of fan of this change, myself.

For every failed back-timed paste (going forward from 19.1), there were a million null pastes, followed by another million clear in/out commands (before 19.1).

You can't satisfy everyone all the time.

So what you're saying is, for every one professional user who did their homework and knew how Resolve worked, there are a million newbs who haven't done their homework.

Sounds about right.

(Not loving that BMD catered the newbs, though. )

I'm not averse to a default behaviour being changed by popular demand, especially where theres a precedent for the requested change ... I just wish that the devs would try to learn not to throw the baby out with the bathwater every time. Unfortunately they seem to have developed a bit of a bad habit in that regard. On the plus side, they often bring back the missing functionality after the fact. This time, lets hope they re-instate the original behaviour as an alternative (separate) paste function or at least add the missing complementary 'Copy to Source Monitor' function ... preferably they'll do both.

Jim Simon wrote:So what you're saying is, for every one professional user who did their homework and knew how Resolve worked, there are a million newbs who haven't done their homework.

There's nothing "professional" about the way this feature operated pre 19.1 Lots of people understood, just as well as you did, how it used to work in Resolve. The point is, they didn't like it.

You evidently do like it, but that preference doesn't say anything about competence or "doing your homework", much less about professionalism.

I hated the old method. I'm glad they changed it.

There is no old method! If you had no in and out points the pasting behavior was the same as it is now. It's just that they removed pasting to in our out points.

Take it or leave, but they made the change - assuming cause and effect -- after numerous requests to do so.

What's aggravating to you now was just as aggravating to many others when it worked as you preferred. Pending Andy's best of all possible worlds, there's no satisfying everyone.

IMHO the in and out points should be taken into account when pasting clips - to be able to do 3 point edits.
Please make it an option in the preferences.

I don't used this feature much, I mostly pasted stuff on the timeline without having in/out points so I don't have any opinion on that.

Wouldn't it be easier to avoid clearing the in/out points when pasting at the playhead?

I'm not sure, logically, both situations seem equivalent to me.

I understand why the in/out points would be cleared (to prevent pasting into a very dimmed timeline, since it's outside the in/out selection).

At the same time, if someone has a selection, they might want to keep it active while still being able to paste at the playhead, outside of the selection.

Yeah, I'm also not a fan. Wish it was a menu item or user preference instead.

I don't understand why features or functionalities are being removed.

It's one thing to change the default behavior to something the community prefers, but we work in different ways and we each have our own preferences.

Having the one feature to achieve a specific task with ease and speed in a particular project is invaluable. It may seem odd or obscure, but when needed it makes a huge difference.

So please, please don't erase them. Leave them available somewhere. Give us the option. There are enough shift / control / option / command / key combinations available to customize everything.

Crazy idea: if you want to paste at the in point, what if you just remember to hit SHIFT-I (shortcut for jumping the cursor to the in-point), and then paste the clip? Won't that drop in the clip right at the In point?

Marc Wielage wrote:Crazy idea: if you want to paste at the in point, what if you just remember to hit SHIFT-I (shortcut for jumping the cursor to the in-point), and then paste the clip? Won't that drop in the clip right at the In point?

And how do you paste between the in and out only, or paste to the outpoint, Marc?

Marc Wielage wrote:Crazy idea: if you want to paste at the in point, what if you just remember to hit SHIFT-I (shortcut for jumping the cursor to the in-point), and then paste the clip? Won't that drop in the clip right at the In point?

That indeed is a crazy idea because it wouldn't work. You can't put the end of a sequence of clips to an outpoint. Also you couldn't trim the beginning of said clips if your input was shorter.

first world problems

Michel Rabe wrote:first world problems

I'm pretty sure this problem can affect people in less privileged part of the world too.
Maybe we can say that it's a third world problem?
(for me the change is not a problem so I don't really care, but this is a bit of a weird comment lol).

Explains the benefits of 19.1 changes:

I'm with Jakob on this one. It would have been so easy to simply have an option to clear in/out marks before pasting (which is actually what's going on) and then with this option disabled, the old behaviour would take effect.

Agreed an option would be better.
That said, I suspect the new behavior is far preferable for 90+% of the people using Resolve.

BTW, that video above is actually worth watching. I haven't had time to install/test 19.1, but as demonstrated in the youtube, the developers added source/timeline swap, as long requested, from Avid and latterly Premiere..... And there's improved patching for copying tracks from one timeline to another.

I knew that I and O interfered with paste operations so I made sure to clear them. paste should always be at the CTI. anything else should be a insert / overlay operation. they have the behavior as it should be now.

Michel Rabe wrote:first world problems

I never used the old method but i absolutely agree that the new one doesn't do everything the old one does so that's a step backward. I vote for having an option in the preferences or (better) different shortcuts for having one behaviour or the other.

And also, why the hell does the in and out points now disappear when i paste? Since the pasting have now nothing to do with in and out point, why the hell does it do that?????

I actually love the paste to play head, i always used to work like this in Premiere.

What BMD should have done is have a tick option in the menus to let users chose the behavior of the paste function, this way both type of users can be happy.

Yep, a simple user preference would do it... but either offering the old functionality as a separate 'Paste to Marks' operation or adding an Avid-style 'Copy to Source Viewer' function would be more flexible.

John Paines wrote:BTW, that video above is actually worth watching. I haven't had time to install/test 19.1, but as demonstrated in the youtube, the developers added source/timeline swap, as long requested, from Avid and latterly Premiere..... And there's improved patching for copying tracks from one timeline to another.

Timeline swapping has been there since version 15 Or at least since I use resolve. What they finally fixed is the correct source patching between timelines which I suggested here on this forum many times and they finally listened. (for example here viewtopic.php?f=21&t=171775) One of the bigger changes I can't wait to finally use since it indeed is on par with Avid now which was the first NLE I learned in the 00s and that's when I adopted this editing technique. I'm not aware of premiere having the same feature but there are workaround to make it viable and actually behave quite similarly but I preferred the resolve way, even when source patching was broken.

I always wonder when they changing some things like this. Is this a real pain for them to add simple checkbox in preferences/menu/whatever, to let users their choice?
I didn't like pre-behaviour and this change is in plus for me, but i can imagine someone learned how to use it, got muscle memory and now tragedy is ready.
And there are more "blackmagic solutions" implemented we all stick to, and we all facing fear of changes

Personally, I think that a fundamental issue with the pre-19.1 behavior was that the in/out points that I set for a render "migrated" to the Edit (and Color) page. This never really made much sense to me and most incidents of paste errors where due to this.

Having said that, I'm happy about the change, having paste (or any other function) behave significantly differently in different circumstances is never a good design.

And still think that Deliver page in/out points should only apply to the Deliver page, but, yes that it an other story.

jade film wrote:Timeline swapping has been there since version 15 Or at least since I use resolve. What they finally fixed is the correct source patching between timelines which I suggested here on this forum many times.

I haven't used the new feature yet so I can't attest to how it works now, but for the 1000th time, timeline swapping as offered by Resolve in prior versions is not, repeat not, not, what either Avid or Premiere accomplishes with source/timeline swapping. This matter has been discussed many times. If you've been around this forum since version 15, you will have seen many posts arguing Resolve can already do it, and just as many other posts pointing out the error in thinking so. Again, I haven't yet upgraded, so I haven't seen it first-hand, but a feature dating to 15 probably wouldn't be celebrated in a video dedicated to, well, new features in 19.1.

As for patching improvements, that has also been requested many times by many others, particularly in conjunction with the source/timeline swapping.

I think if you are a copy-paste style editor, the whole source/timeline patching paradigm will be less appealing. What I appreciate about the changes in 19.1 patching is that you can target specific audio and video channels from the source timeline into your current timeline bring us one step closer to the benefits of how Avid behaves. What puzzles me (as I've already stated) is why BMD didn't make this an optional change to the previous behaviour. Essentially the new behaviour automatically precedes the paste with an OPT+X (removal of mark in/out) - something experienced users would have done anyway if they wanted the paste to be positioned at the playhead.

John Paines wrote:

jade film wrote:Timeline swapping has been there since version 15 Or at least since I use resolve. What they finally fixed is the correct source patching between timelines which I suggested here on this forum many times.

I haven't used the new feature yet so I can't attest to how it works now, but for the 1000th time, timeline swapping as offered by Resolve in prior versions is not, repeat not, not, what either Avid or Premiere accomplishes with source/timeline swapping. This matter has been discussed many times. If you've been around this forum since version 15, you will have seen many posts arguing Resolve can already do it, and just as many other posts pointing out the error in thinking so. Again, I haven't yet upgraded, so I haven't seen it first-hand, but a feature dating to 15 probably wouldn't be celebrated in a video dedicated to, well, new features in 19.1.

As for patching improvements, that has also been requested many times by many others, particularly in conjunction with the source/timeline swapping.

Where does it say it in the patch notes? Timeline swapping has been there for a long time.

Steve Alexander wrote:I think if you are a copy-paste style editor, the whole source/timeline patching paradigm will be less appealing. What I appreciate about the changes in 19.1 patching is that you can target specific audio and video channels from the source timeline into your current timeline bring us one step closer to the benefits of how Avid behaves. What puzzles me (as I've already stated) is why BMD didn't make this an optional change to the previous behaviour. Essentially the new behaviour automatically precedes the paste with an OPT+X (removal of mark in/out) - something experienced users would have done anyway if they wanted the paste to be positioned at the playhead.

The thing is, I do both. I'm super happy they finally fixed the patching issue that dates back many versions (there are still bugs that haven't been addressed that I mentioned here a few times, but I'm hopeful)
But occasionally I just want to shuffle clips on my timeline around and this is where pasting was very important which is now a thing of the past in the way I used to do it. Is saved so much time and hassle, now it's back to trimming, nudging, etc

+1 for the 'copy to source viewer' like Avid!

The paste between in/out is useful when you're moving a clip in the edit (which has adjustments to it, stabilisation/effects etc) to a smaller gap you've left, then it will fit the new location.

At least give editors the option, removing it completely and offering no alternative is pretty drastic!

The 'copy to source viewer' would negate the whole thing though, and be far more useful

jade film wrote:Where does it say it in the patch notes? Timeline swapping has been there for a long time.

For the 1002nd time -- why this is so difficult to get across, I'll never know -- Resolve's swapping timeline feature is not, repeat not, the same as source/record monitor swapping in Avid (and more recently in Premiere, which saw the light). Multiple feature requests on this forum, as well as a number of threads on the subject, are available to you on the subject. Many of those threads feature posts by parties unfamiliar with Avid who instruct the rest of us, as you are now, that Resolve swaps timelines, so what's the problem?

The problem is, timeline swapping is not what's being asked for.

Patrick Spadrille wrote:And also, why the hell does the in and out points now disappear when i paste? Since the pasting have now nothing to do with in and out point, why the hell does it do that?????

That's the one thing I am annoyed at.

John Paines wrote:

jade film wrote:Where does it say it in the patch notes? Timeline swapping has been there for a long time.

For the 1002nd time -- why this is so difficult to get across, I'll never know -- Resolve's swapping timeline feature is not, repeat not, the same as source/record monitor swapping in Avid (and more recently in Premiere, which saw the light). Multiple feature requests on this forum, as well as a number of threads on the subject, are available to you on the subject. Many of those threads feature posts by parties unfamiliar with Avid who instruct the rest of us, as you are now, that Resolve swaps timelines, so what's the problem?

The problem is, timeline swapping is not what's being asked for.

The source patching behaves now like in Avid, I was not saying the swapping was, or did I?

Agree with John. The new patching behavior is very welcome but Resolve swaps the contents of the source and timeline which is very different from Avid that shows you a timeline-like view of the source so you can manipulate it using the full timeline tools rather than tiny and restricted viewer tools.

If Resolve does that then I think we’ll have an Avid equivalent feature. As an example, in Avid I can park my playhead where I want to add material, then swap the timeline view so I’m seeing the source. Now I can zoom in, set in and out, and hit Insert and the selection will be inserted in my edit. In Resolve it’ll just insert in the source as that’s now the target of edits.

Am I missing anything John?

But most of the benefit is there, Joe - just switch back to the main timeline, set the patching and insert the portion from source. Not as flexible as Avid, but so much better than where we were with 19.0.3 and earlier, no?

Joe Shapiro wrote:Agree with John. The new patching behavior is very welcome but Resolve swaps the contents of the source and timeline which is very different from Avid that shows you a timeline-like view of the source so you can manipulate it using the full timeline tools rather than tiny and restricted viewer tools.

If Resolve does that then I think we’ll have an Avid equivalent feature. As an example, in Avid I can park my playhead where I want to add material, then swap the timeline view so I’m seeing the source. Now I can zoom in, set in and out, and hit Insert and the selection will be inserted in my edit. In Resolve it’ll just insert in the source as that’s now the target of edits.

Am I missing anything John?

The extra step in resolve is to switch back, but I think that one button press is not a big deal, especially if you have set up some macros. But this thread is more about pasting clips according to in and out points.

Anyway, I made a feature request: viewtopic.php?f=33&t=211825

Yes that’s the extra step. It’s also what makes the feature so much less usable than in Avid.

I used three-point and four-point editing a lot. I'm sad about it.