Blackmagic Forum

When I use Zoom and Anchor points, the Power Window is correctly tracking the camera movement.
But the output is randomly sized and offset.
If I have a rectangular Power Window tracking for instance, a fence in the background, the fence is correctly tracked as the camera pans.
When Zoom and Anchor points are used, the effect of the Window is completely wrong.
It is shrunken relative to the Zoom amount, and offset inversely from the Anchor Points.
Rendering it useless.

Zoom and Anchor points? Where and how are you using these points and in which order? And what kind of tracking are you using? I'm not sure I follow your description. Explain it in another way. Post some screenshots or something visual.

Not seeing this on studio 19.1 on my MacBook.

Edit - much later in this thread we discover that ease in/out on anchor point animations is at the root - it's a long standing bug in Resolve. Crazy that this is still a bug because animating the anchor point is so much easier than animating X,Y position.

I have a very simple video. One clip.
There is a person in motion. There is a long fence in the background.
Manually follow the person,
Using the Edit Page,
Go to Inspector
use a combination of
* Zoom
* Anchor Point X, Y
to create keyframes. (Each keyframe has both Zoom and Anchor Point together.)

Go to the Color tab to exaggerate the fence:
go to Power Windows
Choose a square tool and drag the vertices to create a rectangle the shape of the fence.
Change the contrast to 200%
Notice that a rectangular bar of the same aspect ratio, but wrong size and location appears with 200% contrast.
Go to the Edit page
Go to Inspector
Turn off Transform with on/off switch
Result: the Power Window rectangle is affecting the image correctly, making a 200% contrast rectangle, perfectly matching the fence.
Except, you are no longer zooming into the subject.
Turn Transform back on
The affected area is once again shrunken and offset from the fence.
(It's as though Zoom and Anchor Points don't affect it).

Seems colornpage not see the altered scale.
Have you tried to do a compound? Before color
Have you tried to disable option of clip that give it to scale to fit frame and do manually?


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carlomacchiavello wrote:Seems colornpage not see the altered scale.
Have you tried to do a compound? Before color
Have you tried to disable option of clip that give it to scale to fit frame and do manually?


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Can you provide the steps to do each of these and I will try it.

It seem that you have compounded the transform controls. Edit page and color page by default have different scaling options for different image processing (scaling and transform) in the workflow. In fact color page can do all the edit page can in the sizing panel. That is why it is there.

Most of the time, this order of operations is irrelevant to the user who’s only interested in the end result. However, if you’re trying to achieve something very specific, or if you’re wondering why you see a particular result when you use the features of the Cut, Edit, Fusion, and Color pages together all at once, this chart should help make things clear. For full chart go to reference manual (accessible form help menu in resolve) Color | Chapter 142 Image Processing Order of Operations, page 3200





The Five Color Page Sizing Modes

The Sizing Palette on the Color page can be put into one of five modes, each of which accomplishes a different task.

— Edit Sizing: These controls mirror those found in the Inspector of the Edit page.

— Input Sizing: These controls let you make sizing adjustments to individual clips that affect their overall geometry (pan, tilt, zoom, and rotation). These controls are useful for doing clip-by-clip pan and scan adjustments.

— Output Sizing: These controls are nearly identical, except that they affect every clip in the entire timeline, all at once. Output sizing is useful for making a formatting adjustment to an entire timeline, such as changing an HD timeline to an SD timeline with simple adjustments to crop and pan the resulting framing.

— Node Sizing: Lets you add targeted sizing adjustments at any point within the node tree. Like Input Sizing, Node Sizing is specific to a particular clip. Unlike Input Sizing, Node Sizing is affected by operations that split color channels (such as the splitter/combiner nodes) and limit the image (such as qualifiers and windows). You can also add as many node sizing adjustments to a clip’s grade as you need.

— Reference Sizing: A set of sizing controls that lets you reposition the still when a wipe comparison is being made. Using these controls, you can move the still image to better compare it to the clip you’re wiping it against. The Reference Sizing controls only work when you have a wipe enabled.

.................................

Sizing Order of Processing on the Color Page

Input Sizing adjustments are applied before all image processing that takes place in the node graph, including Node Sizing, while Output Sizing adjustments are applied after image processing in the node graph.

Using Node Sizing, you can apply individual sizing adjustments on a per-node basis. All Node Sizing adjustments within a grade are cumulative, and any keyframing done to Node Sizing parameters is stored in that node’s Node Format keyframe track in the Keyframe Editor. Two good examples of Node Sizing include realigning color channels individually in conjunction with the Splitter/Combiner nodes, or duplicating windowed regions of an image by moving them around the frame.

Note on Compound Clips. Compound clips are essentially containers of timelines that conform the timeline to a particular set of limitations. If you have no other choice and you need to conform different clips to a single clip to apply a particular operation than compound clips work well, but I prefer to avoid them as much as possible, because they limit options and most of the time you can do the same with other available options in resolve, and with all the flexibility you would otherwise loose if you use compound clips.

People seem to love using them since they are easy to make and get you fast what you want, at the expense of future edits. I would recommend for example to just use sizing panel or transform node on the color page or do it in fusion, rather than doing this kind of work in the edit page and than compounding that later in other pages. You will run into problems as you have discovered.

KrunoSmithy wrote:...I would recommend for example to just use sizing panel or transform node on the color page or do it in fusion, rather than doing this kind of work in the edit page and than compounding that later in other pages. You will run into problems as you have discovered.

It sounds like you're saying I need to do my manual camera tracking from within the Color tab.
I explored this, but don't see how keyframes are created. Unlike the Inspector, the Sizing sliders don't have the keyframe dot button.
Also, I tried using Fusion and the performance was too degraded. I have such a simple need, I'm not doing heavy processing.

ebrister wrote:It sounds like you're saying I need to do my manual camera tracking from within the Color tab.I explored this, but don't see how keyframes are created. Unlike the Inspector, the Sizing sliders don't have the keyframe dot button.

I don't know what your skill level or needs are in particular, but you have quite a few options.

You can use transform filer same way you would use it on the edit page. Just search for transform in the Open FX list. Drag it to your node and perform the operation that way. Alternatively you can use mini timeline and thumbnails of the clips to navigate the timeline if you have more than one track.



But the tracking tools in color page are pretty robust so you might want to explore that as well. You will need to make so called power windows to select what to track of course.



Is you want to manually track parts of the clip, you do the same thing. You make your selections and than you use the keyframing panel to apply keyframes. It you turn on the automatic keyframing than all the sizing and color adjustments will be keyframed automatically as you work, and you can turn that on and off in the keyframeing panel and you can choose between static and dynamic keyframes, meaning linear or smooth / easy in and out types.

ebrister wrote:Also, I tried using Fusion and the performance was too degraded. I have such a simple need, I'm not doing heavy processing.

Fusion is most powerful for this kind of work, but if you have simple needs and no experiance in using it, best to use other tools for now.

ebrister wrote:Also, I tried using Fusion and the performance was too degraded. I have such a simple need, I'm not doing heavy processing.

Fusion is most powerful for this kind of work, but if you have simple needs and no experiance in using it, best to use other tools for now.[/quote]

My system is not sufficient for Fusion, it is much slower than when I use the Edit page.
I don't want to micromanage enormous cache file just for simple panning and zooming

The sizing panel offers you control over everything regarding transform and sizing, including node sizing, so you can use same clip and perform copy and paste or transform or sizing of parts of the clip or whole clips. If you have a power window mask you can copy elements in the same clip or if you have no masks you can do transform of entire frame. Or combination of the two. Since it happens on node basis and after edit and input scaling of the edit page you are not likley to create problems for yourself unless you want to change something on purpose.

KrunoSmithy wrote:

ebrister wrote:

Is you want to manually track parts of the clip, you do the same thing. You make your selections and than you use the keyframing panel to apply keyframes. It you turn on the automatic keyframing than all the sizing and color adjustments will be keyframed automatically as you work, and you can turn that on and off in the keyframeing panel and you can choose between static and dynamic keyframes, meaning linear or smooth / easy in and out types.

This sounds like what I need right here.
Thanks for your answers, they are very thorough.

I tried using the Effect version of the Transform tool,
The sliders have a range of +/- 0.5.
Which is not enough range to get my subject into view.

ebrister wrote:I tried using the Effect version of the Transform tool, The sliders have a range of +/- 0.5. Which is not enough range to get my subject into view.

Move the mouse pointer over the number on the end of teh slider, and you will get two arrows for left and right. Press mouse button and move the mouse left and right and you will be able to change the number past the limit and in more precise way. It works like that everywhere. You can also enter a number you like.

I'm using the Transform Effect, and it seems to be functioning.
I think in my trial and error phase, I created a lot of conflicting settings in the various Sizing areas.
In the keyframes for the Transform Effect,

I'm not seeing a way to modify the Ease-In/Out the way that it's done in the Edit page. There are lanes with ramping up and down values (shown as triangle shaped)
but no way to interact with those as splines.

Edit: I see you explained that they're called Static and Dynamic on this page

ebrister wrote:I'm using the Transform Effect, and it seems to be functioning.
I think in my trial and error phase, I created a lot of conflicting settings in the various Sizing areas.

Conflict. Yes. That is the problem. Like I explained earlier. If you don't follow few basic rules about how image is processed, its like shooting yourself in the foot. Read the manual for detail explanations

ebrister wrote:In the keyframes for the Transform Effect, I'm not seeing a way to modify the Ease-In/Out the way that it's done in the Edit page. There are lanes with ramping up and down values (shown as triangle shaped)
but no way to interact with those as splines.

You have two options, static or dynamic keyframes. Which is euphemism for linear and smooth or linear and ease in and out. They can be changed as set presets, by right clicking on the key frames. Either in the transform tool inspector section or in the keyframe panel. You don't have access to splines per se, since that is not the goal of color page, but you can modify the attributes of easing by right clicking on the keyframe in the keyframe panel and choosing; Change Dynamic Attributes...

For compositing and advance animation type stuff , you should be doing it in fusion page since there you have all the tools you would ever need and its a logical place to do so, considering how images are processed in the pipeline. Resolve is powerful and often well though out piece of software. Sometimes its designed in a way that is not common to other programs, but often its as good or better solution. But if the user is using it against how it was designed to be used the only thing you will get is frustration. So I suggest you don't swim upstream. Know what you want to do. What tools are appropriate for the thing you want and than use them.

Conflict. Yes. That is the problem. Like I explained earlier. If you don't follow few basic rules about how image is processed, its like shooting yourself in the foot. Read the manual for detail explanations

I meant when I was trying out your suggestion to use the Sizing in the Color section, I had to try out different sliders to see if they had any effect, Input Output, etc. I needed to go back to that that Node and zero everything out again.

KrunoSmithy wrote:You have two options, static or dynamic keyframes. Which is euphemism for linear and smooth or linear and ease in and out. They can be changed as set presets, by right clicking on the key frames. Either in the transform tool inspector section or in the keyframe panel. You don't have access to splines per se, since that is not the goal of color page, but you can modify the attributes of easing by right clicking on the keyframe in the keyframe panel and choosing; Change Dynamic Attributes...

Yes, I see the spline editor. It just has some preset ramp in/out, but the curves seems The curve options are a little extreme, so I don't know if I'll be able to use it.
But there it is.

KrunoSmithy wrote:Resolve is powerful and often well though out piece of software. Sometimes its designed in a way that is not common to other programs, but often its as good or better solution. But if the user is using it against how it was designed to be used the only thing you will get is frustration. So I suggest you don't swim upstream. Know what you want to do. What tools are appropriate for the thing you want and than use them.

The real problem is, I want to use Anchor Points and Zoom on the Edit page, but Resolve has a bug where the interpolation fails and sends the Anchor Point values into out-of-bounds.
And Anchor Points don't have Timeline Keyframes curve editor in the Edit Page. So I'm really trying to use it as intended, but there are missing or non-functional tools.

ebrister wrote:The real problem is, I want to use Anchor Points and Zoom on the Edit page, but Resolve has a bug where the interpolation fails and sends the Anchor Point values into out-of-bounds.
And Anchor Points don't have Keyframes in the Editor. So I'm really trying to use it as intended, but there are some lacking features.

Sounds to me the thing that is lacking is your skill. The feature is pretty straightforward. It anchors the center point on which other transform controls operate. There are no bounds, its a coordinates system, not a pixel based system. This is extension of the way resolve and fusion operate, as resolution agnostic. Allowing things to scale up and down based on coordinates not specific pixel number. And that allows us to change pixel number, format of something like a timeline, and have all the components scale up and down proportionally. Its a great system.

If you start to learn how to use is as it was meant to be used, you will be fine. If you fight it about how you think things should be, you will be frustrated and be on the bug fetish train. Like so many I see post on forum. Something doesn' work as they expect, therefore its a bug. Something they don't understand. its a bug. There are some bugs that pop up, but not everything is a bug. For something to be a bug it has to be designed to do something and fails to do it. If it can be reproduced as it fails, its a bug, if it happens randomly its a glitch, which is lesser version of a bug. If its designed to so something else than what you expect, it does not qualify itself as a bug.

KrunoSmithy wrote:

ebrister wrote:The real problem is, I want to use Anchor Points and Zoom on the Edit page, but Resolve has a bug where the interpolation fails and sends the Anchor Point values into out-of-bounds.
And Anchor Points don't have Keyframes in the Editor. So I'm really trying to use it as intended, but there are some lacking features.

Sounds to me the thing that is lacking is your skill. The feature is pretty straightforward. It anchors the center point on which other transform controls operate. There are no bounds, its a coordinates system, not a pixel based system.

It works fine if I leave it as Linear. If I change it to Ease-In/Out then interpolation gives invalid values that puts it off screen.
Please explain.

Also, someone else reported this problem too.
https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=201555&p=1047354&hilit=anchor+points#p1047354

ebrister wrote:It works fine if I leave it as Linear. If I change it to Ease-In/Out then interpolation gives invalid values that puts it off screen. Please explain.

What do you mean by invalid values? Demonstrate.

KrunoSmithy wrote:

ebrister wrote:It works fine if I leave it as Linear. If I change it to Ease-In/Out then interpolation gives invalid values that puts it off screen. Please explain.

What do you mean by invalid values? Demonstrate.

In linear mode, the Anchor Point animation follows a typical robotic path, without any issues.
In Ease In or Out or any combination, the animation immediately jumps to a position not even on the screen. You can see large numbers/negative numbers instead of progressively changing numbers.

Someone else described this independently:
https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=201555&p=1047354&hilit=anchor+points#p1047354

I created a simple project.
I had a clip where I created a keyframe at 0:00:00.00 and one at 0:00:10.00
I Zoomed in 3.6 and left that the same for both keyframes
For Anchor X, the first keyframe I panned over to -1247
the second keyframe, I panned to 1248.
Next, in the Timeline, I moved from the first keyframe to the second, in small steps.
In the Linear attempt this is what appear in the Anchor X

Linear
-1247.000
...numbers that interpolate between these values...
1248

When I changed to Ease in, it looks like this:
-1247.000
-7680.000
-7680.000
-7680.000
-7680.000
-7680.000
-7680.000
-7680.000
-7680.000
-7680.000
-7680.000
-7680.000
-7071.555
-6235.629
-4563.775
-2891.921
-1247.000
-384.140
1287.714

ebrister wrote:In linear mode, the Anchor Point animation follows a typical robotic path, without any issues.In Ease In or Out or any combination, the animation immediately jumps to a position not even on the screen. You can see large numbers/negative numbers instead of progressively changing numbers.

Someone else described this independently:
https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=201555&p=1047354&hilit=anchor+points#p1047354

I have replicated the problem, and indeed it does appear to be incorrectly implemented, and could be classified as a bug. I haven't noticed it before, because I would use fusion for this kind of work, but you are correct. It does seem to be working in a way that it shouldn't be based on setting. Its a bug. From the thread you have linked, its been probably like that since it was implemented. Probably never finished by the developers and never checked before release.

I don't know if this is resolve 19 problem and not earlier, but some people have reported, including myself issues with sliders when mouse wheel is used, especially on the color page. It would appear that with resolve 19, something was changed in the way sliders work or something that is affecting them, so its behaving unexpectedly. Until its fixed, Fusion can be used for such animation if you needed it. Technically a macro could be made in fusion to be used in edit page, but makes more sense to use fusion outright.

KrunoSmithy wrote:

ebrister wrote:In linear mode, the Anchor Point animation follows a typical robotic path, without any issues.In Ease In or Out or any combination, the animation immediately jumps to a position not even on the screen. You can see large numbers/negative numbers instead of progressively changing numbers.

Someone else described this independently:
https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=201555&p=1047354&hilit=anchor+points#p1047354

I have replicated the problem, and indeed it does appear to be incorrectly implemented, and could be classified as a bug. I haven't noticed it before, because I would use fusion for this kind of work, but you are correct. It does seem to be working in a way that it shouldn't be based on setting. Its a bug. From the thread you have linked, its been probably like that since it was implemented. Probably never finished by the developers and never checked before release.

I don't know if this is resolve 19 problem and not earlier, but some people have reported, including myself issues with sliders when mouse wheel is used, especially on the color page. It would appear that with resolve 19, something was changed in the way sliders work or something that is affecting them, so its behaving unexpectedly.
Until its fixed, Fusion can be used for such animation if you needed it. Technically a macro could be made in fusion to be used in edit page, but makes more sense to use fusion outright.

Thanks for acknowledging the issue.
As I mentioned, Fusion is a no-go, because the overhead is too much, and I can't use it for what I'm doing. I need real time playback. So I have to find some workaround, which is what I'm already doing.

ebrister wrote:Thanks for acknowledging the issue.As I mentioned, Fusion is a no-go, because the overhead is too much, and I can't use it for what I'm doing. I need real time playback. So I have to find some workaround, which is what I'm already doing.

Not sure what you are doing, but there are plenty of ways to optimize playback if that is the only issue. Don't throw away whole power of fusion because of playback optimization.

KrunoSmithy wrote:

ebrister wrote:Thanks for acknowledging the issue.As I mentioned, Fusion is a no-go, because the overhead is too much, and I can't use it for what I'm doing. I need real time playback. So I have to find some workaround, which is what I'm already doing.

Not sure what you are doing, but there are plenty of ways to optimize playback if that is the only issue. Don't throw away whole power of fusion because of playback optimization.

I'm frustrated because the performance and UI is exactly what I need on the Edit page.
I need to make cuts.
I need to zoom pan, etc.
There is a perfect functional keyframe curves editor right there.
performance is optimal.
I just can't use the mouse to set X-Y without a lot of clutter.
And anchor points are broken.
Going to Fusion just to Zoom and Pan is just weird and not where I am doing my main work.

ebrister wrote:

KrunoSmithy wrote:

ebrister wrote:The real problem is, I want to use Anchor Points and Zoom on the Edit page, but Resolve has a bug where the interpolation fails and sends the Anchor Point values into out-of-bounds.
And Anchor Points don't have Keyframes in the Editor. So I'm really trying to use it as intended, but there are some lacking features.

Sounds to me the thing that is lacking is your skill. The feature is pretty straightforward. It anchors the center point on which other transform controls operate. There are no bounds, its a coordinates system, not a pixel based system.

It works fine if I leave it as Linear. If I change it to Ease-In/Out then interpolation gives invalid values that puts it off screen.
Please explain.

Also, someone else reported this problem too.
https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=201555&p=1047354&hilit=anchor+points#p1047354

Yes - that was me, but funny enough I didn't recall this bug and when I tried to replicate your issue earlier in this thread, I didn't use any easing on the anchor point (maybe instinctual, lol).