Resolve: one frame off sync with mixed frame rates

Hi, I have this weird problem where I get 1 frame off synch when I conform an XML coming from FCP7. Any guess?

I and others have the same issue and have posted in multiple forums without response from tech support. as they often will quickly respond to other issue, we can only assume they acknowledge the issue and do not wish to or are unable to address this.

I too have seen this problem. If there are lots of slipped clips, then you might try conforming from an EDL rather than a XML. That worked for me.

Steve

[Peter Chamberlain]

Hi, i think the challenge is a: consistently reproducing it, and b: once we have done that and can see where the issue is, and then c: working out how to change the behaviour with the data provided in the XML.

Do you have the same problem with mixed frame rate sources turned off? With mixed rates on and clips with no speed changes do you see the problem?
Peter

Oh excellent a reply, thanks. I am able to provide sample XML but I don't know if that even helps you without media. But I can do tests and I'm sure the others who have posted elsewhere can as well as we are all keen to get this resolved if possible. The last time it happened to me, it did happen to be with an XML with multiple mixed frame rates, resolutions and codecs, so this might be beyond the scope of this feature? Not clear in the manual. There might be speed changes in it as well but need to check. But the consistent behaviour seems to be that with "handle mixed rates" on, the native clips are all slipped by one frame, while the mixed rate clips start on the correct frame.
I will try and isolate the speed change question.

[Peter Chamberlain]

You can always send the xml to
davincihelp (at) blackmagicdesign (dot) com

with some background to how you can reproduce the problem.
thanks
Peter

I submitted my bug report as suggested here as well. I'm having the same/similar issue. It sometimes starts right or one behind, then pauses on one frame for a second where my offline clip doesn't, then it catches up or is ahead/behind again, it varies. It's on the 24p footage, on a 25p timeline - makes sense kinda, that it's missing 1 frame so it repeats 1 frame here and there to keep it conformed. Frankly I don't really know how FCPX deals with this without having to do that (and keeping everything in time).

Still, given it's not identical to my offline clip is certainly unnerving.

I was reading the manual though, this morning, and noticed it says if you export out separate clips at the end in the deliver process, that it will export the clips in the ORIGINAL frame rate in the timecode. So maybe it doesn't actually matter? (unless you're wanting to finish in Resolve)

In that my 25p footage will just go back out as 25p, with the same frames and timecode, and my 24p footage will just go back out as it was before hand too (my 24p footage is RED R3D's and the 25p is H.264)...

That's what I'm hoping anyway.

If you're doing a roundtrip back to FCPX or something, can I assume that Resolve will export out the clips appropriately at the end, and it's only having trouble displaying a mixed frame rate timeline?

Because in that sense, the timeline is ALMOST right, so I'm pretty sure I can grade with it and 1 frame out here and there shouldn't matter.

Just trying to figure out my workflow until this is fixed.

Suggestions? Advice?

My other thought, especially if the above DIDN'T work, was to try to have 2 separate timelines, one with my 25p footage and 1 with my 24p footage (2 separate projects actually). And have 2 separate projects in FCPX with all the 25p footage deleted in 1 and 24p deleted in the other. Export 2 xml files. Then run them all as separate projects all the way thru, until right at the end when I bring 2 timelines back into 1 in FCPX once everything is graded separately.

This would make more sense than trying to slip each clip to make a dodgy Resolve timeline conform to your offline clip. For me, slipping clips wouldn't have worked anyway as they're not just "1 frame out", they're all over the place, with duplicate frames half way thru clips etc. I wonder if others with this problem it's the same and you just haven't noticed yet? Or whether I have a different problem based on different mixtures of frame rates and codecs or something... My FCPX project was at 25p, FYI. All the 25p clips in Resolve obviously work fine, it's just the 24p ones.

Many thanks.

I have also run into this problem with a 100% 23.98 fps Red footage timeline but the media pool had some 30 frame Pro Res files in it.

I enabled the mixed frame rate feature because we we're informed that they may be using 30fps shots for security camera shots. They ended up not using any of these shots in the first reel. When the XML was imported and the timeline checked against the offline ref video, lots of shots were out by one frame. Sometimes late, sometimes early. The timing position of the clip was accurate, but the media was slipped by one frame.

Since I could not disable this feature with all the clips in the media pool (why is that btw?) I had to blow out all the footage, turn off mixed frame rate and then reimport the footage back into the project. Re-import the same xml as before and all clips are in sync. Every shot is Red footage at 23.98 except for the leader which is Pro Res 422 23.98.

The Mixed frame rate option seems to have a major bug.

You can always send the xml to
davincihelp (at) blackmagicdesign (dot) com

with some background to how you can reproduce the problem.
thanks
Peter

Hi
Just sent the xml

It'd be nice to get a reply as to whether I can grade this mixed timeline or not. Or should I start 2 projects?

I realised there's probably an easier way to do the 2 projects just in resolve, thanks to the post before me just now... I can remove all footage from the media pool EXCEPT one or the other, and don't allow it to import the clips, and I'll just have a timeline with missing media for the ones I don't want in there. Unless.... the XML says 25p and it won't go well with a timeline that only has 24p clips in it....

Hmmm. Anyway, I've finished my all 23.98 red project last night at 6am, so I'm ready to do this one. If possible, can we get a reply sometime today? Please?

Well it's pointless sitting around for Black Magic to reply, so I did my own testing. Only took me a small amount of time.

On a clip that is playing oddly in the 25p timeline....ie. a 24p clip

I did a simple grade, then in deliver did a simple export of that one job.

I looked at the QT that it exported. It was 23.98, nice, and all seemed to be ok. No repeating frames. It was an extra 8 frames long tho (and I didn't have any handle frames on) to what the clip frames were. 7 at the start and 1 at the end. I have no idea why.

If I lined it up with my original un-graded FCPX timeline, it synced.

But, what about the different length? Was this going to cause problems later? Is this normal behavior anyway that I just haven't noticed?

So I did a 1.1 xml export (1.2 seems to not work with FCPX 10.0.6 even though 1.2 is supposed to be to support 10.0.6 - go figure - it gives the error that the DTD or whatever isn't right, and looking at the XML file it does look 'not right').

Anyway, I imported the round trip XML back into FCPX. And it had done what it should, used all the ungraded clips from the original pro-res transcodes (this project I did transcodes for an original edit in FCP7), it rebuilt the timeline properly, and only replaced my one graded clip with the resolve version, and yes, it was identical in length and lined up as it should. When showing the clip in the event browser, it had in and out points (the yellow region) that was correct, 7 frames cut off the start and 1 at the end.

So as far as I can tell, the roundtrip will work fine, despite the playing glitches with mixed frame rates.

So unless you're wanting to finish in Resolve (for some unknown reason) I personally think it's safe to go ahead and grade these oddball clips as it seems everything will work out fine in the end.

The only thing I'd say about that, is that that is fine for a general grade. But sometimes I do very FRAME specific things, with tracks and whatnot. So this isn't good enough going forward. The same frames that show in FCPX need to show in Resolve.

Just reporting back that I finished my grade in the mixed timeline with no issues upon returning to FCPX. The rendered clips all seems to be fine and the round trip and the resulting timeline in FCPX was all as expected. Again - this was a simple grade, unlike my last projectt, which was fine, but having a frame out on some projects is still an issue.

Got any news? I have two XML doing just that if you wanna try.

Just tried a XML that give me a 1 frame off sync in Resolve. Once rendered and sent back in FCP7 it<s still offsync.

This has got to be fixed and I<m willing to help if I can.

the consistent behaviour seems to be that with "handle mixed rates" on, the native clips are all slipped by one frame, while the mixed rate clips start on the correct frame.

I'm also seeing this problem when sending XML from FCP to resolve. 'Handle mixed rates' solved the render problems I was having, but created this new problem.

Please let me know if I can help track down the 'bug,' if that's what it is.

[Would much rather that FCP7 just die already, but, I'm not the one making that decision...]

GH

I am having this same problem but with Avid. I am syncing the dailies in Resolve, the exporting them to DNXHD and exporting an ALE.

Bring them both into Avid, and boom. One frame off.

DOES ANYONE (BLACKMAGIC) HAVE A SOLUTION!?!?

Has there been any update on this? I've just discovered it in a bunch of segments for a show. Fcp7 XML in, all xdcam footage. No problems in resolve them a frame out for a bunch of clips.

In going to try edls but some of them have 7 video layers so that's going to be painful.

The show where I had this problem switched to a different codec and the problem went away. Wish I could be more help.

Hmm.. I'll look into it tomorrow. It's frustrating as the editors didn't call me to tell me what was going on and I could have at least got on this list weeks ago.

It's pretty annoying how far back this thread goes and it's still going on. It would be good to know if this is happening at the Resolve end or the FCP7 end at least. I can't move productions away from FCP7 to X or avid but at least I could go in forewarned.

I am wondering why everyone here is assuming this is a Resolve problem.

Some of the edit apps that generate these XMLs (which is like publishing any composition in a foreign language in another culture) don't do the math right, either -- but it is what it is and editors accept it, because you don't actually know whether its "right" or not. What if Resolve is actually mapping the frames correctly, and its the NLEs that are fudging the frame position? I know absolutely that FCP7 doesn't and cannot cope with mixed frame rates accurately, but it is consistent, because, yes, you can open the same XML in various installations and you will get the same result on most occasions. Doesn't mean there isn't another interpretation. It entirely depends on the algorithm, and what we do know is that everyone is doing things to the beat of their own drum.

For sure, I do not trust Apple to be doing it correctly.

jPo

Next week when it's calmer I'll bring a rendered XML straight back into resolve and check.

Yes it possibly is fcp7. Will also check against fcpx.

I'll report back next week...

Found a solution, it's about how FCP reads the XML

If you import the XML in premiere, and then export out a new FCP-XML and import that one it will be all oke.

Problem accures when I chose mixed frame rate Final Cut 7 in Davinci

Good luck!

Hey Have jut been reading this. I think i'm getting the same problem. I don't have mixed frame rate so i can't select none, it's greyed out. Alas i'm coming from premiere and it looks like it a frame out when i compare with my reference clip? Anyideas?

Ben.

Found a solution, it's about how FCP reads the XML

If you import the XML in premiere, and then export out a new FCP-XML and import that one it will be all oke.

Problem accures when I chose mixed frame rate Final Cut 7 in Davinci

Good luck!

Sooo weird!!! it works for me to.... They are at the 11 version so why this still a problem?

Well thanks body!

This is happening to me as well, but trying to roundtrip from Adobe Premiere Pro CC 2014. Most shots are one frame off. Sometimes cuts happen a frame earlier than in the actual edit. Please help, Black Magic.

Not generally one to complain... BUT... I got to spend my day sliding nearly every clip in the half-hour pilot I'm editing/coloring a frame or two in order to match up with the original edit. I don't know if this XML discrepancy exists due to Resolve, or due to Premiere (or XML code itself), but I really, really, really hope this issue gets resolved soon

I'm with Blake, I really would like this to be resolved soon!

I did a test where I imported the XML that I made for Davinci into Premiere and it was not a frame off. But when I round trip it out of Davinci, it's a frame off. So I think it's Davinci causing the frame off.

I'm with Blake, I really would like this to be resolved soon!

I did a test where I imported the XML that I made for Davinci into Premiere and it was not a frame off. But when I round trip it out of Davinci, it's a frame off. So I think it's Davinci causing the frame off.

do you really think, it's only a xml interpretation problem? i see this one frame off issue very often in resolve quicktime file reading. it's just harder to see, if you do not have an objective timing reference / given edit etc.

do you really think, it's only a xml interpretation problem? i see this one frame off issue very often in resolve quicktime file reading. it's just harder to see, if you do not have an objective timing reference / given edit etc. [/quote]

Not entirely sure, but it looks like when it comes out of Davinci it seemed to be a frame off. But I'm definitely not an expert on either programs. So not sure, just don't want this to happen in a time crunch situation but also don't want to have to not use Davinci because I love the software.

Not entirely sure, but it looks like when it comes out of Davinci it seemed to be a frame off. But I'm definitely not an expert on either programs.

the annoying quicktime issue i'm referring to used to show the last frame twice... this could be an indicator.

So not sure, just don't want this to happen in a time crunch situation but also don't want to have to not use Davinci because I love the software.

yes -- i agree! -- but it's a nasty bug that should be fixed soon as possible...

For what it's worth, we switched to a new codec again this season - and the problem re-appeared. Originally I had the problem with XDCam source material, then it went away with prores 422, and now is back with MXF-wrapped XAVC. So... blame Sony?

I've got the same problem. I'm sure anyone can easily replicate this in FCPX to Resolve.
I did a simple test using only 2 clips, both in 23.976.

1. Place them in FCPX timeline, which is 23.98. (not sure if that's the problem but FCPX doesn't have 23.976).
2. Export XML 1.4, since Resolve can't read 1.5.
3. Open Resolve 11, import that XML. Mixed Framerate:None. (Also tried all other option)
4. Goto the cut between those two shots. Compare it to FCPX, it's off one frame.

This is unacceptable!

Just reporting in to add to this ongoing problem. Resolve 12 - still happening!

I'm using Premiere - both XML and EDL get shifted by a frame or several frames.

I have no mixed frame rates in my footage, tried both with DNxHD and ProRes from different cameras so I doubt that it's. The fact we're all having this problem across different programs really leads me to believe it's a Resolve bug. It's seriously annoying. I have to Scene Detect everything I grade and waste hard drive space on extra exports. This really needs to be fixed.

I'm having the same issue with clips being off by one frame.

I exported an XML from Premier Pro CC and opened it fine in Resolve and did some colouring. Later, I had some new clips to add in that had VFX work done to them. When I drop these new clips with the VFX on top of their originals, the new clips are now out of sync by one frame along with the colour changing slightly. (more contrasty)

I went back to the original PP timeline and dropped the new VFX clips over their originals and it worked fine. There was no sync issue, and the colour stayed exactly the same. So with everything perfect in PP I exported a new XML and opened that up in Resolve, only to have the same issues, all new VFX clips are off by one frame.

Any suggestions?

[Peter Chamberlain]

Are u on 12.5?

Are u on 12.5?

I'm on 12, should I be on 12.5?

Dropping in to say I'm on version 12 and experiencing the frame slip with Red files, XML from Premiere CC.

I upgraded to 12.5 Beta and that appears to have fixed the problem. For anyone experiencing this issue I suggest giving that a try.