Blackmagic Forum

I'm a newbie to Resolve 12.
I don't see many Deliver options for producing a completed project to commonly used delivery codecs for viewing and distribution like H.264 AVC MP4.
Thanks

read the manual. h264 is standard export coded AFAIK

waltervolpatto wrote:read the manual. h264 is standard export coded AFAIK

Thanks but I haven't found it in the 1095 page pdf manual AFAIK. I see Quicktime H.264 - but it's not the same. I appreciate the warm welcome to the forum.
Al

please explain why is QuickTime h264 not the same, is a standard deliverable for what i know.

are you looking for a h264 and AVC and MP4 together?

(I simply don't understand, and yes, you are welcome... sorry if i came across rude.)

The Qucktime version of h264 is terrible. I've tested them with Adobe Media Encoder and the difference can be easily seen.

Also if the delivery specs are for a MP4 flavored H264 (Mainconcept etc) then Quicktime probably won't cut it.

You can rename any h264 .mov to .mp4 and it will work, because mp4 was build upon mov structure.
I also don't like Adobe Média Encoder's h264, it kills grains and other details. My advice is to export from Resolve a master in a mesanine codec (prores, dnxhd, cineform) and then reencode.
I use x264. It is free and perfect for h264.

is it just a matter of select a different kb compression?

i don't like either when it is too compress because it will kill detail and grain.

waltervolpatto

please explain why is QuickTime h264 not the same, is a standard deliverable for what i know

MP4 (MPEG-4) is a file format which is highly compressed and commonly used as a Delivery format for a smaller highly compressed with excellent viewing properties (no perceptible loss) on HD and 4k TVs.. It is an output option in nearly all NLE programs (except Resolve).
In Resolve, Quicktime (we still don't have a 64bit version) H.264 outputs a MOV file which is an Apple format with less compression and poor viewing quality.

Tero Ahlfors

The Qucktime version of h264 is terrible.

I agree

Adriano Oliveira

You can rename any h264 .mov to .mp4 and it will work

Thanks - you can rename the MOV to MP4 file type but it doesn't actually change the file format. Most players will ignore the file type and play the actual codec format. You can convert MOV to MP4 with a video file converter - but it doesn't help when you start with poor quality MOV.
I use Cineform as an Intermediate editing codec and convert my MP4 and MTS camera capture clips to Cineform AVI 10bit with Resolve and then re-import the converted AVI clips into Resolve to Edit but Cineform is not a Delivery codec. Prores, dnxhd, and cineform are only used as "near loss-less" output files when your project is going to other programs like Final Cut Pro. This is a carry-over from when Resolve was used for color correction only the passed on to an NLE.

The Adobe products have also recently integrated Cineform into their products. If you shoot HD or 4k in 8bit 4.2.0 color format like MP4, MTS, or any of the compressed camera formats, it is better to convert the clips to an Intermediate 10bit 4.2.2 color Codec like Cineform to edit you will get better quality output and color correction - even if you output back to an 8bit format.

If Resolve wants to be a full blown NLE as it claims, it needs to add a lot more Delivery options than I can find in it's present form.
Like -
H.264 AVC - MP4, M2TS and MKV
XAVS - MP4
H.265 - MP4
etc

For those interested in more info on codecs and Cineform see links below (I am still learning ).

http://nofilmschool.com/2015/06/gopros-cineform-now-industry-standard-codec

http://www.4kshooters.net/2014/09/06/which-codec-is-most-suitable-for-your-4k-workflow/
See video on codecs mid-page.

Thanks Again,
Al

Quicktime (we still don't have a 64bit version) H.264 outputs a MOV file which is an Apple format with less compression and poor viewing quality

.

h264 specific how to compress, QuickTime is a wrapper, they should be identical in the way they read.

we can argue about compression, but different software is different strategy.

if you have a noisy picture the compression will worn not as efficiently, regardless of the software used, sone techniques will improve that butt at the end of the day is just about how to throw away data and connotes the rest.

i will do a test: get 1 minute footage, do a compression then blur the image a bit ( abs sharpen just the edges) and do the same compression: it will look better the blurred one.

most (if not all) compression methods use a variation of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrete_cosine_transform. preparing the data ti optimize the compression can go a long way.

try to do a temporal noise reducer, it will kill the hi frequency data making the h264 much more cleaner

On the left side of the screen H264 Mainconcept in an mp4 wrapper and on the right Quicktime's vision of H264. Export settings are identical so they should look identical right?

they obviously are not!

what is the size of the final file? it look like resolve compression is off by a factor or 10 (like 10.000 kb Vs 1.000 kb)

My guess would be kilobits vs kilobytes / megabits vs megabytes — so it would be off by a factor of 8


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danielstonehouse wrote:My guess would be kilobits vs kilobytes / megabits vs megabytes — so it would be off by a factor of 8


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that sound like a good guess.

what are the sizes of the files?

Tero Ahlfors wrote:

On the left side of the screen H264 Mainconcept in an mp4 wrapper and on the right Quicktime's vision of H264. Export settings are identical so they should look identical right?

they won't be the same.
h264 is a codec technology with some specification. How you implement this technology to your products, which provides h264 encoding is up to company. There are many software with h264 encoding capabilities and each of them will have different quality for the same final file size. They will never be exactly the same if they don't use the same " h264 engine".

Rise bitratre and if you can't go higher (for whatever reason) than export ProResHQ and use some free software (ffmpeg, handbrake etc) which is based on x264 engine.

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:

Tero Ahlfors wrote:

On the left side of the screen H264 Mainconcept in an mp4 wrapper and on the right Quicktime's vision of H264. Export settings are identical so they should look identical right?

they won't be the same.
h264 is a codec technology with some specification. How you implement this technology to your products, which provides h264 encoding is up to company. There are many software with h264 encoding capabilities and each of them will have different quality for the same final file size. They will never be exactly the same if they don't use the same " h264 engine".

Rise bitratre and if you can't go higher (for whatever reason) than export ProResHQ and use some free software (ffmpeg, handbrake etc) which is based on x264 engine.

I agree with your statement, but the picture shows a factor of 10 difference in compression and i cannot think a valid reason why that happen if all the setting are the same.

small difference yes, factor of 10 no.

In theory on a single frame it could, but maybe not that big.
Are these files about the same size\bitrate (e.g. within 10% margin?). I don't think they are- QT h264 encoder is not the best, but it's not that crap neither.

I'm not sure if Resolve can use this, but it is possible to install x264 as a Quicktime export component. Then any software that uses quicktime export can use it. You get access to all the settings normally.
I agree with others' advice on this thread, best to export a ProRes or an image sequence, and use something else to produce mp4's. Some material needs a few attempts to get it right, especially if you start to experiment with x264's myriad settings, so this way the workflow gets simplified significantly.

Won't work. Resolve QT integration is controlled and only some components are enabled.

Is there a reason you do not just export to ProRes, DNxHd, or Sony Xdcam, and then use Handbrake or FFMPEG for compression to h.264/mp4?

Hi Aaron,
I'm not sure if Handbrake will handle those input formats, but every time you convert a compressed video file you lose a bit of quality, so it is best if the NLE can export the project in the format need and avoid further conversion.
Thanks,
Al

Looks like they have fixed it - but in Pro (paid) version only.
http://www.redsharknews.com/post/item/2913-lightworks-12-5-huge-update-delivers-more-export-options,-lut-support,-boris-fx-and-more
https://www.lwks.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=208&Itemid=251

At that price for standard NLE features - I would rather use GV Edius 8.

Aaron Star wrote:Is there a reason you do not just export to ProRes, DNxHd, or Sony Xdcam, and then use Handbrake or FFMPEG for compression to h.264/mp4?

No, except this is additional step, which requires time and disk space.
All mentioned formats should work in handbrake (it will read about the same as ffmpeg).

still the op did not post the size of the files...

If you are seeing significant generational loss on your video over one generation, you might want to rethink your source workflow overall. Most artifacts in sub 20mbs h.264 media comes from recompression of poorly shot source media.

My guess the h.264 support is another AC-3 support issue of keeping licensing costs down on a free product. Since Resolve has always been considered a professional tool since the film grading days, most professional types do not work in delivery formats like AVC and h.264. I think the range of professional media types and codecs that Resolve supports on the free version is actually very impressive.

Al Spaeth wrote:At that price for standard NLE features - I would rather use GV Edius 8.

Except that GV Edius 8 is not and never will be Lightworks...

Aaron Star wrote:My guess the h.264 support is another AC-3 support issue of keeping licensing costs down on a free product. Since Resolve has always been considered a professional tool since the film grading days, most professional types do not work in delivery formats like AVC and h.264. I think the range of professional media types and codecs that Resolve supports on the free version is actually very impressive.

Precisely! Export an Image Sequence, ProRes or DNxHD Master and cut your deliverables from that.