Resolve and El Capitan

will resolve benefit from the 10 bit P3 color space of an LG 5K display hooked up to a 2016 MBP w 4GB VRAM? or does reference by law need to go through a video I/O? the LG only has TB3 input

Without a color-managed output, and without calibration, it's all for nothing.

I was answering the part of the question that asked if there was any benefit. Surely there is some benefit to having a 10bit monitor that is described as covering DCI P3. And why can't the monitor be calibrated? It seems it would be factory calibrated and can be user calibrated. Certainly to the point of being useful, but I'm not expecting it to be the best grading monitor option, but a benefit in terms of what Apple offered before Sierra.


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Surely there is some benefit to having a 10bit monitor that is described as covering DCI P3.

10 bits is good, but as for Apple's P3 (it's not theatrical DCI-P3 as Apple is using a different white point and gamma) I think whether it is beneficial is very much an open question rather than a certainty, especially for film and video workflows.

Right now the only Apple P3 screens in existence are on the 5K iMac, the 2016 MacBook Pro, the iPad Pro and the iPhone 7. I know as time goes on everyone's Apple device will have an Apple P3 display, but the web is the most likely way that content will make its way to those devices and the web is still sRGB and 8 bit color. When will web distribution shift to wide color gamut and will it support Apple P3 very well? What standards will PC and Android devices use for wide gamut screens?

My guess is that mastering content for the web using those shiny new Apple P3 screens will cause a ton of color management headaches for quite some time to come.

DCP is theatrical DCI-P3, not Apple P3, so it's not useful for cinema mastering.

BluRay is still REC709, so Apple P3 won't be useful for that either.

UHD BluRay spec is for REC2020, and I've no idea how anyone is currently mastering for that given that none of the TV's for sale at the moment cover more than 75% of REC2020. As far as I know there aren't even reference monitors that cover 100% of REC2020.
Mark, how is Hollywood monitoring color and mastering for UHD BluRay?

I can't see any benefit at the moment in mastering content to Apple P3 unless for your own enjoyment on your own iDevice screen.

Apple P3 is shiny and new and totally Apple. But, I can't figure out how it's going to make any filmmaker or videomaker's work easier or better.

Understand REC.2020 as a container for all existing gamuts. It's not meant to be "full" at all.

REC.2020 is also an attempt to have one for all. Every camera can use it to map it's original gamut into and every monitor takes it and maps it to it's original gamut.

It might sound complicated, but that's how it should be.

Much better than Apple coming up with some bigger gamut that can't be calibrated accurately either because ICC profiles don't do gamut mapping as far as I understand.

Surely there is some benefit to having a 10bit monitor that is described as covering DCI P3.

10 bits is good, but as for Apple's P3 (it's not theatrical DCI-P3 as Apple is using a different white point and gamma) I think whether it is beneficial is very much an open question rather than a certainty, especially for film and video workflows...

My guess is that mastering content for the web using those shiny new Apple P3 screens will cause a ton of color management headaches for quite some time to come.

DCP is theatrical DCI-P3, not Apple P3...

I can't see any benefit at the moment in mastering content to Apple P3 unless for your own enjoyment on your own iDevice screen.

Apple P3 is shiny and new and totally Apple. But, I can't figure out how it's going to make any filmmaker or videomaker's work easier or better.

Ouch! And Apple is calling it DCI P3 on their webpages! I obviously hadn't questioned what Apple was saying which is unforgivable on my part given Apple's historic practices of reality distortion championed by Steve Jobs. And here I was thinking Apple was turning the corner and throwing a bone to professionals using their equipment.

The Wikipedia entry for DCI-P3 describes Apple as using DCI-P3 with no mention of some of these shortcomings.

Should the gamma be 2.6 and the white point D65? If I set that using Apple's System Preferences Display Calibration, would that be helpful in having a more accurate P3 display? The reviews from Displaymate on Apple's P3 consumer grade screens were quite positive, but did not compare it to a professional high-end monitor.

Thanks for the explanations Jamie et al.


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I should clarify that I'm not saying Apple has made a poor decision with their Display P3. They are, as usual, designed for a little bit in farther in the future rather than the present, so there is going to be a period of time where their specs don't match what many of us will need to deliver. For example, for someone is currently delivering web video and works in the GUI on an sRGB calibrated Dreamcolor computer display, switching to an Apple P3 display will not magically make their web video deliverables any better.

When it comes to DCI-P3 v. Display P3, Apple has made the correct decision to use 2.2 gamma and D65 White Point (the same white point as sRGB and REC709). DCI-P3 is designed for reflective theater screens viewed in the dark and Display P3 is designed for emissive computer/idevice screens viewed in a relatively bright environment (as pointed out by jPo in an earlier thread). The fact that the media and some of Apple's marketing is calling it DCI-P3 rather than Display P3 will likely lead to some confusion. I think they don't care because most of their customers will never be producing content for cinema screens and professionals producing for cinema screens won't be relying on an Apple display as a reference monitor.

If you want to grade on your P3 Apple display in P3, it would be best to leave it at its native 2.2 gamma and D65 white point. If you want to put that file on a DCP to display in a theater, you would need to apply the correct transform to change the gamma and white for the DCI spec. It's similar to taking a REC709 master to DCP, but it requires a different transform. Sam Mestman recently used that workflow on a recent project.

When grading for sRGB or REC709 delivery media, because the white point and gamma of Display P3 are the same, a compromise is to grade for them on the P3 display as long as you have some REC709 calibrated scopes to ensure that you are not going outside the color gamut. Your images will probably appear a little desaturated though. Apple has built some sort of REC709 color management into FCPX so you can make an approximate grade in REC709 on their Display P3 screens without having your images look desaturated. However, that certainly doesn't mean it's going to be anywhere close to as accurate as running video I/O out to a REC709 calibrated reference monitor. And I don't think other post software has the same color management built in.

The situation where many people will run into trouble is if they grade for the web, TV broadcast or BluRay on an Apple P3 display and push the color outside the bounds of sRGB/REC709 which will result in clipped color details (and perhaps other unpredictable results).

Basically, as Mark wrote, the old wisdom still applies: video I/O out to a calibrated external reference display is necessary for accurate images.

Thanks, again for the detailed comments, Jamie. I've been working within Resolve with P3 inputs and timeline and Rec.709 deliverables. So hope the final transform to Rec.709 that Resolve performs is adequate for the web and television.


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Thanks, again for the detailed comments, Jamie. I've been working within Resolve with P3 inputs and timeline and Rec.709 deliverables. So hope the final transform to Rec.709 that Resolve performs is adequate for the web and television.

That's interesting, I've never heard of a camera that captures content in P3. What camera are you using that shoots P3?

Perhaps I poorly described "P3 inputs." I meant I've tried applying P3 colour to my URSA Mini 4.6K raw on input.


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Perhaps I poorly described "P3 inputs." I meant I've tried applying P3 colour to my URSA Mini 4.6K raw on input.

Interesting. So, if I understand correctly, you have the raw tab set to interpret the Ursa Mini files as P3 D60, and then you are combining that with Resolve Color Management settings that have the input color space set to match as P3 D60 with the output color space as REC709.

Jamie, do these Settings make sense to achieve a P3 workspace in Resolve with actual clips from Mini 4.6K log video? Using iMac 27" 5K Retina (late 2015) System Preferences/Display/Color: Display P3.

Master Project Settings
Color Science: DaVinci YRGB Color Managed

Camera Raw ->CinemaDNG
Color Space: P3 D60
Gamma: 2.6

Color Management Settings
Input Color Space: P3-D60
Timeline Color Space: P3-DCI
Output Color Space: Rec.709 Gamma 2.4






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Jamie, do these Settings make sense to achieve a P3 workspace in Resolve with actual clips from Mini 4.6K log video? Using iMac 27" 5K Retina (late 2015) System Preferences/Display/Color: Display P3.

Master Project Settings
Color Science: DaVinci YRGB Color Managed

Camera Raw ->CinemaDNG
Color Space: P3 D60
Gamma: 2.6

Color Management Settings
Input Color Space: P3-D60
Timeline Color Space: P3-DCI
Output Color Space: Rec.709 Gamma 2.4

Personally, I would advise setting the camera raw to BMD Film and the RCM Input Color space to BMD 4.6K film v3 because that is in fact what you are shooting. As I understand it, those DCI options are there in the raw tab for certain cinema and/or VFX workflows.

The timeline color space setting only affects how the color page controls respond to input (according to the Resolve manual), so if you like the feel of them under P3-DCI, that's fine but it's not necessary even though you have a P3 monitor. The timeline color space setting is not adding anything special to the input look or output look of the footage. Pick any timeline color space you like. Personally, I tend to stick with REC709 as my timeline color space as I'm so used to the way the controls respond in REC709.

Your output color space affects what you see in the GUI, what you see on your external reference monitor, and what it rendered out of the deliver page. The REC709 output color space setting will not be accurate for your GUI as your iMac is set to Display P3. However, that setting would be accurate if viewed on an external REC709 calibrated reference monitor.

Are you using the Resolve GUI on your iMac to grade from or do you have a separate external reference monitor calibrated to REC709?

If you are grading on the iMac only without an external REC709 reference monitor, then the way to work would be to grade with the output color space set to P3-D65 and gamma 2.2 to match your display profile. If you need REC709 deliverables, simply switch the output color space setting after grading but before rendering out of the deliver tab (make sure have the option to use rendered proxy files turned off).

Also, make sure to tick the "use Mac display profile" box in the color management section of the preferences.

EDIT: An alternative, if the iMac is your only display and you prefer to work under REC709 while grading, is to use a probe to create a REC709 profile for the iMac display and make sure it's set to that in system preferences whenever you're grading. However, I've no idea though how accurate it is possible to get that iMac monitor to match REC709. I'd bet it's best to keep that display at its native 2.2 gamma no matter which color space at which it is profiled.

Thanks for the sage advice, Jamie. At this time I am using the iMac for grading. At some point in the future (maybe in a year), I hope to have the FSI CM171 or something similar hooked up via SDI to an Ultrastudio 4K connected via TB2 to the iMac.

I thought the Timeline colour space would be what I'd see when working on the Edit and Colour tabs of Resolve so that P3 would be good. I thought the Output colour space would be what I see out of the renders in the Deliverables tab.

When I had accepted the default option to "Use Mac Display Profile" on my very early raw footage, it just seemed to make a horrible mess with the output. I've left it turned off since. Maybe at the time I didn't have the other Settings as you recommend. I'll try to look at that all again with your suggestions and see if it looks fine now. Before I was trying to work on the P3 colour space with the Apple Display P3 setting, I did use the raw settings you suggested and liked what I saw.

I'll give it another go. Thanks, again for all your patient help.


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I thought the Timeline colour space would be what I'd see when working on the Edit and Colour tabs of Resolve so that P3 would be good. I thought the Output colour space would be what I see out of the renders in the Deliverables tab.

I hear you. How it is named seems somewhat counter intuitive to how the timeline color space actually works.

I'm a member of mixinglight.com and highly recommend a membership to anyone who wants to gain a deeper understanding of color grading. Much of what I've learned comes from their tutorials, along with the Ripple Training videos on Resolve by Alexis Van Hurkman (and from making many many mistakes along the way).

ACES, which is another color managed workflow option in Resolve, does not have a timeline color space option, and to me, that makes more sense. I also prefer the output from ACES because its color output transforms were designed to mimic the look and response of film. However, I don't think ACES is an option for your workflow because I can't find an ODT in the available drop down list that would match up with Apple's P3 display.

Jamie, I've applied the recommended changes including the setting to Use Mac Display Profile that I avoided after initially getting awful results from Deliver. So far all looks fine on my iMac but I won't be generating a deliverable until later today from the project timeline I'm currently editing. If the output looks good, no news is good news.