Why is the DaVinci Advanced Panel so expensive?

Nothing more to posit beyond the simple question in the header.

because of the software is free for most users, bm had to charge somebody to make money. ..

is a good panel thou....

But if they make it more affordable they'll sell more units. I just don't get it.

But if they make it more affordable they'll sell more units. I just don't get it.

not necessarily, you cannot drop the price to 3k like the tangent, and a price tag of 10k will not work:

who want a cheaper panel will still get the tangent
who want the big one, will spend the 30k anyway.

IMHO

Out of all the pro systems (Baselight, Nucoda Film Master, Mistika) the resolve panel is the cheapest.

Precision panel which works with Filmmaster and Mistika is about $40K USD

Baselight blackboard 2 is about $58K USD

The small Baselight slate is $12000 USD, but not really equivalent to the full davinci control surface - it's similar to just the middle panel of the 3 piece resolve surface.

Resolve panel is $29K USD, and includes the resolve Linux licence (considering buying the panel is the only way to get this license, and compared to the additional software costs of the other systems you could say this brings the panel cost down to about $25K USD


Some would think these prices are artificially high is debatable, but I can assure you that a baselight blackboard is so beautiful and precisely engineered that it feels like it's worth every single one of its many thousands of dollars. These high end control surfaces are complicated, specialised bits of equipment, that would only be possible to sell in very low numbers, so the prices are probably reasonable considering the costs of design, development, production, and support.


All that said, the BMD Panel could do with a an external refresh (I know the internals were completely redesigned and modernised when BMD acquired Resolve) - a new typeface for the interface, some new features to go along with the many changes of the software, and some new key caps for the surface to match.



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(I really like the blackboard 2)

All that said, the BMD Panel could do with a an external refresh (I know the internals were completely redesigned and modernised when BMD acquired Resolve) - a new typeface for the interface, some new features to go along with the many changes of the software, and some new key caps for the surface to match.

I have said for years I'd love to see a Control Surface II with another 20 or so user programmable keys and pots, also breaking out more functions, plus an integrated tablet pad.

Bear in mind that it was only 7 years ago that the original Ethernet daVinci 2K panel was over $100,000. We basically have the identical panel as USB2 today for $30K, which I think is a pretty amazing deal. And Blackmagic Design dropped that price years before everybody else did.

Having said that, the Baselight Blackboard 2 is an amazing panel that's really, really good.

But if they make it more affordable they'll sell more units. I just don't get it.

While they're probably just doing a reasonable markup over materials and development costs (which are way more than you could imagine unless you're in the software biz), there's another thing to consider. It sounds dumb but I can assure you it's a very powerful concept.

People equate price with quality. If they could take the same unit and sell it for $100, I can assure you that many major studios would drop it like a bad habit. I mean, really, if it's only $100, how good could it possible be? Let's go buy one of those expensive units. We want to work with pro gear, not this amateur / prosumer stuff.

A case in point. I owned Nuendo, pro quality DAW (Digital Audio Workstation) recording / mixing software from Steinberg, who also makes Cubase. Both only cost a few hundred bucks, but Steinberg wanted to be a serious player in the post world. So, I had 2.0, which I paid $800 for. They announced 2.2, which had almost zero in terms of new features or improvements. But the price was now triple, at $2400. Same software. Same everything. But more expensive, so it must be pro quality stuff.

The next month I saw articles popping up in all the trade rags talking about this new, powerful, pro quality mixing software for post.

Laugh if you want. This stuff works.

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back to current reality....

also add in Pablo's Neo and Nano panels into the pile of things you can't buy for $1,000USD and expect change back...

and a small quibble that while Slate, Nano and the center of Resolve are about the same size, Slate and Nano do function well due to context sensive mappings... i would not envy anyone walking into a suite with only the Center panel of Resolve + a mouse... would make for a very long day, where Slate and Nano can and do hold their heads up...

A decision to buy one of these tools is driven by ROI.... your expected return on investment, and that comes down to expected client bookings, and rates

But there is a good track record of them paying for themselves IF the artist has the talent + skill + knoledge to leverage the tools to the clent's advantage, and IF the clent base exists in the local marlet, and IF the sales and backend crew keep their end up....

so to quote Clint Eastwood; "do you feel lucky punk"?

All good points. The ROI is really the most viable point when considering, and that's why I'm baffled at the price point of the Resolve panel: it makes the ROI sensible only to the largest of the studios or companies, and I feel that if its pricing were to be lower it could further entrench Resolve as the system of choice for many more in the industry.

Yes the Blackboard 2 and Slate are superior products from the craftsmanship perspective, but have you seen BaseLight's UI? Anytime you'd lift your fingers off the control board to do something on screen you'd encounter this jumbled UI ...

This pricing also makes them vulnerable to competition. A company like Tangent that already has the technology to create wonderful panels can easily add another panel or two to the Element series and complete it as a full Resolve control panel for half the price.

Anyway, thank you all for your input

A company like Tangent that already has the technology to create wonderful panels can easily add another panel or two to the Element series and complete it as a full Resolve control panel for half the price.

A great number of the Elements physical controls are not implemented under Resolve as it is, and there is a Developer Sharing issue between the two companies, where one says we could give you mapping if "they" do this, and the other company says "yes, if *they* do that." And the answer for us turns out to be "no."

Recall that a full set of the original Tangent 200 series would total $18,000 and they don't work with Resolve at all, because they are IP-enabled through a router. If anybody wants a set for their Speedgrade installation, I will sell them to you for the price of a new WAVE, plus shipping, and I will throw in the LinkSys switch and a full set of RJ cables.

jPo

A great number of the Elements physical controls are not implemented under Resolve as it is,

there is a Developer Sharing issue between the two companies, where one says we could give you mapping if "they" do this, and the other company says "yes, if *they* do that."

So, Tangent says : "If Blackmagic provides an API, we'll give you custom mapping"
And BMD says : "We'll give you an API if.... Tangent raises its prices up to $30K" ?

And the answer for us turns out to be "no."

The day we get custom mapping, I'll open a bottle of expensive champagne, for real !

All good points. The ROI is really the most viable point when considering, and that's why I'm baffled at the price point of the Resolve panel: it makes the ROI sensible only to the largest of the studios or companies, and I feel that if its pricing were to be lower it could further entrench Resolve as the system of choice for many more in the industry.

If you've ever sat down and actually used the full Resolve Control Surface for a day, I bet you would come away from it feeling like it's actually worth $30,000. My impression is that Blackmagic is not making a lot of profit on it. Again, remember that only a few years ago, this identical panel was closer to $100,000.

I would conservatively said that an experienced colorist could probably shave off 25% of the session time using the full control surface compared to everything else out there. If you're working 40 hours a week, add up 10 hours a week for a year and see if that doesn't pay for the $30,000 panel.

Good point Marc.

I am not an experienced colorist, I am not a colorist actually but an editor, and part of my job is to supervise the grading sessions and also recommend and implement workflows and technology for the entity I work for. There lies my deep interest in grading both as an art and as a process.

My lack of experience renders me unable to judge your input so I have take all your suggestions and insights at face value, and I deeply appreciate your participation.

If you've ever sat down and actually used the full Resolve Control Surface for a day, I bet you would come away from it feeling like it's actually worth $30,000.

Maybe. And I also bet that if you had a full Resolve Control Surface with custom mapping enabled, you'd think it's worth $35,000 !

My impression is that Blackmagic is not making a lot of profit on it.

It's hard to tell...
My impression is that if they offered custom surface mapping in DaVinci Resolve Studio, they'd instantly sell a bunch of licenses and it would be very profitable.

The point is : Blackmagic is actively upgrading its camera lineup and updating its software but the control surface hasn't seen any valuable refreshment lately.

Why is the DaVinci Advanced Panel so expensive?

Because there is no standalone manual for it! If there would be one, it would cost even more!


Seriously BMD, a 30k US$ machine and manual-style hints are loosely spread over a 1211p. long PDF?

i.e.: where's the Remote version -> copy to Local version button(combination)?

To allow big post houses have something which you can't afford, which will allow them charge clients 10x more than you can charge and pretend they do something amazing

Why is the DaVinci Advanced Panel so expensive?

Because there is no standalone manual for it! If there would be one, it would cost even more!


Seriously BMD, a 30k US$ machine and manual-style hints are loosely spread over a 1211p. long PDF?

i.e.: where's the Remote version -> copy to Local version button(combination)?

+1
I used the DaVinci panel recently and I had a hard time finding some functions...
A panel map and menus map would be very useful.

To allow big post houses have something which you can't afford, which will allow them charge clients 10x more than you can charge and pretend they do something amazing

nice try.

would you like the panel for free?

Panel mapping could definitely be improved. Lots of wasted buttons, lots of mislabelled buttons - how about an update scheme with new physical keycaps? The jog wheel has never worked well and most ignore it.The on screen UI is a couple of redesigns old and needs a refresh. And what if the on screen UI could display the values that were being edited (or at least, as suggested above, the UI should show the current tool being adjusted).

My number one request is quite simple - I'd love to be able to ignore the bars and just have primary button toggle between primary and log.

Oh, and a way of toggling between windows while tracking.

In general, panel owners are a bit neglected by BMD, there is seemingly no acknowledgement of their financial investment, the equivalent of purchasing 30 copies of Resolve. In my mind panel owners are a valuable resource of power users that should be supported, consulted, and cultivated.


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+1 Daniel

To allow big post houses have something which you can't afford, which will allow them charge clients 10x more than you can charge and pretend they do something amazing

nice try.

would you like the panel for free?

Nope, free is even worse than crazy price
It should be priced accordingly to its real value.
I'm not a supporter of free Resolve neither.
I'm after modular software based on proven and reliable engine. Each customer based on its needs buys needed functionality, similar like easyDCP plugin integration in Resolve.

I agree that the panel has some silly mapping, I wish I can at least map in the top side of the panel what i want, the double mapping in the left and right of the panel is silly as best.

i like the Baselight approach: complete mapping/customizable professional panel, with a big and a small panel. You have a default but you can deviate form it.

Price... well... already Resolve is almost free. let at least BM get some money out of the hardware...

frankly i don't think $30k or whatever is a lot for a piece of professional gear - especially considering it's not 'mass' produced. i remember the first fairlight panel costing an astronomical amount, as did much of my sony broadcast equipment, especially edit controllers.

i'm all for bm making a profit and supplying excellent affordable hardware in the form of cameras etc., and giving resolve lite for free is simply a bonus from a company that's certainly setting the pace...

yeah, i'm turning into a bm fanboi

For my money, (well below US$1000) the combination of Resolve's OxygenTec ProPanel and the X-keys 68 Jog/Shuttle makes for a sweet and affordable workflow, especially if you do as I do and map your Resolve Edit/Color page Transport keyboard shortcuts to the same X-Keys back-lit buttons/controls as your NLE.