Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

Get answers to your questions about color grading, editing and finishing with DaVinci Resolve.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline
User avatar

Piotr Wozniacki

  • Posts: 1178
  • Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:17 pm
  • Location: Poland

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostSun Feb 25, 2018 3:43 pm

Andrzej,

Just occurred to me I could try the old ffmpeg build (have a bad day - this should have been my test number 2 several hours ago) - and surprise, surprise - the colors are skewed exactly like with the new ffmpeg version! And this is with both DNxHR and 10bit YUV exports from Resolve...

What the heck? Truth is I didn't export for quite a time now, being busy with learning new Release 14 functionalities.... What do you think I should try to change in the way I've always exported - and had good hevc encoding results colorwise?!!

Cheers

Piotr
AMD TR 2990WX CPU | MSI X399 CARBON AC | 64GB RAM@XMP2933 | 2x RTX 2080Ti GPU | 4x 3TB WD Black RAID0 media drive | 3x 1TB NVMe RAID0 cache drive | SSD SATA system drive | AX1600i PSU | Decklink 12G Extreme | Samsung UHD reference monitor (calibrated)
Offline

Andrew Kolakowski

  • Posts: 6182
  • Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:20 am
  • Location: Poland

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostSun Feb 25, 2018 4:34 pm

Don't know- change in Resolve, TV firmware update etc.
If old encodes are also bad it means something has changed- Resolve preview or TV processing for those files.
Maybe simple box like HDR HDMI flagging is not selected, etc?
Offline
User avatar

Piotr Wozniacki

  • Posts: 1178
  • Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:17 pm
  • Location: Poland

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostMon Feb 26, 2018 9:45 am

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:Example for a P3D65 1000-nits monitor, where G(x=0.265, y=0.690), B(x=0.150, y=0.060), R(x=0.680, y=0.320), WP(x=0.3127, y=0.3290), L(max=1000, min=0.0001):

G(13250,34500)B(7500,3000)R(34000,16000)WP(15635,16450)L(10000000,1)


you have to find on the web Rec.2020 coordinates and then multiply them by 50000.
WP is white point for Rec.2020

L is multiplied by 10000 and depends on your TV capabilities/grading settings (max peak and black level).


Did what you suggested; my rec.2020-specific master-display string is:
master-display="G(8500,39850)B(76550,2300)R(35400,2300)WP(15635,16450)L(10000000,1)"

- still no difference; the colors are over-saturated (especially Red channel, but this might be scene-related). As I said - my guess is this argument is totally ignored, as I'm getting the same colors with:

- P3D65-specific coordinates
- Rec.2020-specific coordinates
- no master-display parameter at all

I'm lost :(

Piotr

PS. Please remind me as I'm not sure of anything anymore:

- should I grade with data or video levels (shouldn't matter as long as it's the same in Clip Attributes and monitoring setting in Project Properties; have always used full)
- should I export video or data levels (tried both, with the same clip graded in Full - no difference in rendered HEVC files; this is strange but true)
AMD TR 2990WX CPU | MSI X399 CARBON AC | 64GB RAM@XMP2933 | 2x RTX 2080Ti GPU | 4x 3TB WD Black RAID0 media drive | 3x 1TB NVMe RAID0 cache drive | SSD SATA system drive | AX1600i PSU | Decklink 12G Extreme | Samsung UHD reference monitor (calibrated)
Offline
User avatar

Piotr Wozniacki

  • Posts: 1178
  • Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:17 pm
  • Location: Poland

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostMon Feb 26, 2018 9:58 am

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:Don't know- change in Resolve, TV firmware update etc.
If old encodes are also bad it means something has changed- Resolve preview or TV processing for those files.
Maybe simple box like HDR HDMI flagging is not selected, etc?


I didn't say my old encodes are bad - they look the same as the did right after I made them some time ago. What I mean is the same exports which looked good with the previous ffmpeg now results in color over-saturation no matter which version of ffmpeg they're encoded - and this is something I can't comprehend at all!

Resolve monitoring is 100% configured correctly, and my older projects look exactly the same as they did at the time I exported them and encoded to h.265 with the older ffmpeg version(s) several months ago...

Also no radical changes to my TV settings (even though it did update the firmware several times in the meantime) - when I cast those first HDR clips from the web (like the beautiful LG promo "chess" clip), they look the same as always did.

Piotr

PS. HEVC files are supposed to be read by DR14 even on Windows - which wrapper will allow this, as I can't load them at all?

EDIT: What is max-cll="1000,400" responsible for? Just noticed I used it before as one of the xllib265's parameters, but it is missing from my current syntax. Added it, replaced the output extension from .ts to .mp4 - and voila! - the hevc file can be read by Resolve... So I assigned the input color/gamma of 2020/2084 to it - and my hevc clip looks exactly as before exporting! So at least I know that nothing funky happens during export, but...

... when cast straight to my TV - it is still over-saturated....As if the 709->2020 conversion was applied twice to it: sometimes I get this look from Resolve when I have mixed gamma clips in the same timeline with mostly 709 clips and - before I remember to change input color space/gamma to S-gamut/S-log2 for a clip that was so recorded - I normalize it using color wheels and curves. Then - after I find my error, and change the input color/gamma for this particular clip - it looks funky in the very same way my HEVC files display on my TV now...So: would it really be a double conversion? If so - where? Here is my syntax again:
Code: Select all
.\bin\ffmpeg -i "input.avi" -pix_fmt yuv420p10le -c:v libx265 -preset fast -b:v 50M -x265-params keyint=60:bframes=3:vbv-bufsize=75000:vbv-maxrate=75000:colorprim=bt2020:transfer=smpte2084:colormatrix=bt2020nc:master-display="G(8500,39850)B(76550,2300)R(35400,2300)WP(15635,16450)L(10000000,1)":max-cll="1000,400" -c:a aac -b:a 192K -y "output.mp4"
AMD TR 2990WX CPU | MSI X399 CARBON AC | 64GB RAM@XMP2933 | 2x RTX 2080Ti GPU | 4x 3TB WD Black RAID0 media drive | 3x 1TB NVMe RAID0 cache drive | SSD SATA system drive | AX1600i PSU | Decklink 12G Extreme | Samsung UHD reference monitor (calibrated)
Offline

Andrew Kolakowski

  • Posts: 6182
  • Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:20 am
  • Location: Poland

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostMon Feb 26, 2018 11:52 am

Piotr Wozniacki wrote:
I didn't say my old encodes are bad - they look the same as the did right after I made them some time ago. What I mean is the same exports which looked good with the previous ffmpeg now results in color over-saturation no matter which version of ffmpeg they're encoded - and this is something I can't comprehend at all!



Well- it simply means TV firmware updates make it bad. If old files don't look right anymore then the only thing which changed is TV firmware (files are the same). New ffmepg has nothing to do wit it. Don't try to look for problem here.

Do Samsung demo clips (which you can find on the web) look fine when you play them from USB?
Offline
User avatar

Piotr Wozniacki

  • Posts: 1178
  • Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:17 pm
  • Location: Poland

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostMon Feb 26, 2018 12:55 pm

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:Do Samsung demo clips (which you can find on the web) look fine when you play them from USB?

Yep - this is why I don't think it's the TV firmware... But will write so Samsung anyway, because what I suspect is the internal player (decoder) must have some adjustable settings which are not accessible. I can adjust the picture for all HDMI inputs individually, but not for the "cast input". This one might as well be still in the "shop mode"!

Otherwise, I'm lost - just managed to create my first proper hevc file using Hybrid, and it looks the same (over-saturated). At the same time, all those HDR h.265 files look like very nice regular 709 on my PC screen (with VLC or MPC-HC, or even MP)...

Thanks Andrew,

Piotr
AMD TR 2990WX CPU | MSI X399 CARBON AC | 64GB RAM@XMP2933 | 2x RTX 2080Ti GPU | 4x 3TB WD Black RAID0 media drive | 3x 1TB NVMe RAID0 cache drive | SSD SATA system drive | AX1600i PSU | Decklink 12G Extreme | Samsung UHD reference monitor (calibrated)
Offline

Andrew Kolakowski

  • Posts: 6182
  • Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:20 am
  • Location: Poland

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostMon Feb 26, 2018 12:59 pm

What do you mean by cast? Are you streaming them to TV?
Try over USB.
Offline
User avatar

Piotr Wozniacki

  • Posts: 1178
  • Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:17 pm
  • Location: Poland

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostMon Feb 26, 2018 1:44 pm

Looks the same, and casting is faster after each encoding trial.

Piotr
AMD TR 2990WX CPU | MSI X399 CARBON AC | 64GB RAM@XMP2933 | 2x RTX 2080Ti GPU | 4x 3TB WD Black RAID0 media drive | 3x 1TB NVMe RAID0 cache drive | SSD SATA system drive | AX1600i PSU | Decklink 12G Extreme | Samsung UHD reference monitor (calibrated)
Offline

Andrew Kolakowski

  • Posts: 6182
  • Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:20 am
  • Location: Poland

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostMon Feb 26, 2018 3:27 pm

Try resetting TV and then applying all settings again.
Offline
User avatar

Cary Knoop

  • Posts: 1246
  • Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:35 pm
  • Location: Newark, CA USA

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostMon Feb 26, 2018 4:19 pm

Piotr Wozniacki wrote:PS. HEVC files are supposed to be read by DR14 even on Windows - which wrapper will allow this, as I can't load them at all?

mp4 works.

Piotr Wozniacki wrote:
Code: Select all
.\bin\ffmpeg -i "input.avi" -pix_fmt yuv420p10le -c:v libx265 -preset fast -b:v 50M -x265-params keyint=60:bframes=3:vbv-bufsize=75000:vbv-maxrate=75000:colorprim=bt2020:transfer=smpte2084:colormatrix=bt2020nc:master-display="G(8500,39850)B(76550,2300)R(35400,2300)WP(15635,16450)L(10000000,1)":max-cll="1000,400" -c:a aac -b:a 192K -y "output.mp4"

What is the source of your avi file, an avi container is rather unusual.

If you compare the input.avi (Resolve can't read avi files) and output.mp4 are there any changes?
Offline

Andrew Kolakowski

  • Posts: 6182
  • Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:20 am
  • Location: Poland

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostMon Feb 26, 2018 4:27 pm

HEVC in TS is probably unsupported, but as you said it should work fine in mp4.

It's TV problem not encoding as old files also stopped working.
There were firmware updates, so things went bad and x265 files are not processed properly anymore. Over-saturation suggest that TV is not recognising gamut properly.
Offline
User avatar

Jean Claude

  • Posts: 2973
  • Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2015 4:41 pm
  • Location: France

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostMon Feb 26, 2018 6:51 pm

@Cary
Small intrusion:
Davinci Resolve can perfectly read .AVI if the formats and codec are compatible (Cineform, BMD Codec,etc...)
"Saying it is good, but doing it is better! "
Win10-1809 | Resolve Studio V16.1 | Fusion Studio V16.1 | Decklink 4K Extreme 6G | RTX 2080Ti 431.86 NSD driver! |
Offline
User avatar

Cary Knoop

  • Posts: 1246
  • Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:35 pm
  • Location: Newark, CA USA

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostMon Feb 26, 2018 7:53 pm

Jean Claude wrote:@Cary
Small intrusion:
Davinci Resolve can perfectly read .AVI if the formats and codec are compatible (Cineform, BMD Codec,etc...)

Thanks for that correction.
Offline
User avatar

Piotr Wozniacki

  • Posts: 1178
  • Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:17 pm
  • Location: Poland

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostTue Feb 27, 2018 9:52 am

Hey guys - could someone explain to me what's going on here?!!

So - trying to find the reason for the color discrepancy between my HEVC deliverables (encoded with ffmpge from my HDR10 renders export), and the original look of those renders before exporting from within Resolve - I changed my T/L and Output color space from 2020 to D65. This increased the color saturation and skew toward the Red, making them look very much like those final HEVC files! So of course I used some grading to return the look to what it was before (the proper one)....

Hoping for the best, I went with the usual rendering of the h.265 clip, from the (now less saturated, due to my grade tuning) export from Resolve. And... believe me or not, but the resulting h.265 clip looks identical to what it was before the change of the graded source (still over-saturated colors, and skewed towards Red). I'm clueless

Piotr
AMD TR 2990WX CPU | MSI X399 CARBON AC | 64GB RAM@XMP2933 | 2x RTX 2080Ti GPU | 4x 3TB WD Black RAID0 media drive | 3x 1TB NVMe RAID0 cache drive | SSD SATA system drive | AX1600i PSU | Decklink 12G Extreme | Samsung UHD reference monitor (calibrated)
Offline

Andrew Kolakowski

  • Posts: 6182
  • Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:20 am
  • Location: Poland

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostTue Feb 27, 2018 2:13 pm

Resolve update?
Offline
User avatar

Piotr Wozniacki

  • Posts: 1178
  • Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:17 pm
  • Location: Poland

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostTue Feb 27, 2018 2:26 pm

You mean re-install?

Piotr
AMD TR 2990WX CPU | MSI X399 CARBON AC | 64GB RAM@XMP2933 | 2x RTX 2080Ti GPU | 4x 3TB WD Black RAID0 media drive | 3x 1TB NVMe RAID0 cache drive | SSD SATA system drive | AX1600i PSU | Decklink 12G Extreme | Samsung UHD reference monitor (calibrated)
Offline

Andrew Kolakowski

  • Posts: 6182
  • Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:20 am
  • Location: Poland

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostTue Feb 27, 2018 2:54 pm

I mean update to new version which for the old project gives different preview results (for whatever reason).
Offline

Thomas Dove

  • Posts: 43
  • Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:24 am

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostTue Feb 27, 2018 6:04 pm

So - trying to find the reason for the color discrepancy between my HEVC deliverables (encoded with ffmpge from my HDR10 renders export), and the original look of those renders before exporting from within Resolve


Piotr,

I got exactly the same; I spent hours on it but could not find the reason for the difference.
In the end what I did was make a display LUT that I use when the timeline is set to Rec.2020, that applies an 'extra saturation' particularly to the red channel to simulate the extra saturation that seems to be applied when rendering HDR10 -> FFMPEG.
(Without the display LUT the display on the Decklink Extreme monitor looks de-saturated.)

Doing this, when I render out HDR10 and use FFMPEG (using essentially the same command line as you) and then it looks right on the Samsung TV, whether played via a USB stick or via the Samsung player from a PC (looks the same played either way).

Tom
Main Resolve: Linux Centos 7, Intel i7 16GB RAM, nVidia 1070Ti, Decklink Extreme 12G
Laptop: Win 10 Pro 64-bit 1803 Dell XPS 13 9370 w i7-8550U, 16GB RAM, Intel UHD Graphics 620 GPU
Offline

Andrew Kolakowski

  • Posts: 6182
  • Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:20 am
  • Location: Poland

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostTue Feb 27, 2018 9:32 pm

There should be no difference though.
It's the same YUV data hitting TV (except compression), so should be ideally processed the same way.
Offline
User avatar

Piotr Wozniacki

  • Posts: 1178
  • Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:17 pm
  • Location: Poland

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostWed Feb 28, 2018 6:21 am

Thomas Dove wrote:I got exactly the same; I spent hours on it but could not find the reason for the difference.
In the end what I did was make a display LUT that I use when the timeline is set to Rec.2020, that applies an 'extra saturation' particularly to the red channel to simulate the extra saturation that seems to be applied when rendering HDR10 -> FFMPEG.
(Without the display LUT the display on the Decklink Extreme monitor looks de-saturated.)

Doing this, when I render out HDR10 and use FFMPEG (using essentially the same command line as you) and then it looks right on the Samsung TV, whether played via a USB stick or via the Samsung player from a PC (looks the same played either way).

Tom


Thanks for that Tom, I was already afraid I'm hallucinating here...

Please tell me one more thing: does the master-display argument to xlib265 make any difference to your renders? It doesn't here at all; the picture is the same without this argument as they are with it, either for D65 or Rec.2020 coordinates...

Piotr
AMD TR 2990WX CPU | MSI X399 CARBON AC | 64GB RAM@XMP2933 | 2x RTX 2080Ti GPU | 4x 3TB WD Black RAID0 media drive | 3x 1TB NVMe RAID0 cache drive | SSD SATA system drive | AX1600i PSU | Decklink 12G Extreme | Samsung UHD reference monitor (calibrated)
Offline

Thomas Dove

  • Posts: 43
  • Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:24 am

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostWed Feb 28, 2018 5:18 pm

Piotr,

does the master-display argument to xlib265 make any difference to your renders?


Absolutely zero difference. FYI, I tried many variants of FFMPEG command line, changing just about every conceivable parameter, but still got the over-saturated result (especially in red).

Hence my Decklink display LUT, to add this over-saturation in to what I see while doing the grading, so what comes out of an HEVC HDR10 encode looks the same as what I see on the grading monitor.
I don't feel that I should have to do this, but in the end you just have to get on with the project and do what works to get stuff delivered correctly.

Tom
Main Resolve: Linux Centos 7, Intel i7 16GB RAM, nVidia 1070Ti, Decklink Extreme 12G
Laptop: Win 10 Pro 64-bit 1803 Dell XPS 13 9370 w i7-8550U, 16GB RAM, Intel UHD Graphics 620 GPU
Offline
User avatar

Piotr Wozniacki

  • Posts: 1178
  • Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:17 pm
  • Location: Poland

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostWed Feb 28, 2018 6:08 pm

Thanks Tom. I found another work-around; instead of LUT - before exporting - I change the hue (in the lowest row of controls, under the color wheels) from 50 to some 45 (still experimenting to find the optimum value. This allows for a much better fidelity of my HEVC renders, desaturating the Red and promoting Green.

Can anyone tell me which x265 parameter in the command line would do the same (i.e. changing hue from Red to Green)? Using it would make this change unnecessary in Resolve...

Piotr
AMD TR 2990WX CPU | MSI X399 CARBON AC | 64GB RAM@XMP2933 | 2x RTX 2080Ti GPU | 4x 3TB WD Black RAID0 media drive | 3x 1TB NVMe RAID0 cache drive | SSD SATA system drive | AX1600i PSU | Decklink 12G Extreme | Samsung UHD reference monitor (calibrated)
Offline

Andrew Kolakowski

  • Posts: 6182
  • Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:20 am
  • Location: Poland

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostWed Feb 28, 2018 6:21 pm

You don't want to alter your render- this is not the way to do it for sure.
If anything you adjust Resolve preview through Video LUT etc.
Real solution is to find a reason why there is a difference, but this would require help from Samsung.

There are other steps which can be taken trying to establish why theses a problem. You can use MPC-HC player with madVR renderer which now support passing HDR metadata over HDMI out of modern GPUs. At least you could try to se if this matches Resolve or file playback. In this case data would be going over HDMI so more likely it should match Resolve HDMI preview.
Offline
User avatar

Piotr Wozniacki

  • Posts: 1178
  • Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:17 pm
  • Location: Poland

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostThu Mar 01, 2018 8:48 am

Andrew - I downloaded madVR, and indeed it plays HDR beautifully through MP-C HC now. However:

- I'm still getting the hue shifted towards Red so much that in order for my HEVC encodes to look very close to my grades before exporting them from Resolve, I had to use the TV color settings for the HDMI input which my GTX 1080 is connected to and change the hue as much as G70/R30 (from the default G50/R50)!!!

All my HEVC renders - including the old ones made with the older ffmpeg - look OK with this setting.

Any more ideas?

Piotr
AMD TR 2990WX CPU | MSI X399 CARBON AC | 64GB RAM@XMP2933 | 2x RTX 2080Ti GPU | 4x 3TB WD Black RAID0 media drive | 3x 1TB NVMe RAID0 cache drive | SSD SATA system drive | AX1600i PSU | Decklink 12G Extreme | Samsung UHD reference monitor (calibrated)
Offline

Andrew Kolakowski

  • Posts: 6182
  • Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:20 am
  • Location: Poland

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostThu Mar 01, 2018 10:55 am

Hmm...this doesn't sound good.
Just to be clear- in the past your file and Resolve preview was looking about the same- did not have this problem? In the same time demo clips from web look the same now as they did before? This means current Resolve preview is broken.


1. Render h265 as mp4 and load this back to Resolve (interpret if needed) and preview- I assume this looks same as Resolve project preview?

2. Set madVR to process HDR to SDR and look at it on you computer screen. This is not very accurate, but does it look closer to Resolve or file/madVR HDR preview on TV?

3. Connect your Atoms recorder and watch footage there instead of TV. It doesn't even matter if footage is not detected as HDR.

4. Record Resolve preview and madVR preview into your Atomos recorder. Load both to Resolve and check if they look the same (and also against original Resolve timeline). This will tell you if YUV data which hits TV is the same or not in both cases. If the same then it means some metadata over HDMI is different and causing TV to apply different processing. If they look different then this is not good. Then compare both to original Resolve timeline- again they all should match. If they don't it means actual YUV data is altered by Resolve/madVR before it hits TV, which is not good.
Last edited by Andrew Kolakowski on Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:23 am, edited 13 times in total.
Offline

Andrew Kolakowski

  • Posts: 6182
  • Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:20 am
  • Location: Poland

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostThu Mar 01, 2018 10:58 am

Piotr Wozniacki wrote: GTX 1080 is connected to and change the hue as much as G70/R30 (from the default G50/R50)!!!

All my HEVC renders - including the old ones made with the older ffmpeg - look OK with this setting.

Any more ideas?

Piotr


This is not white point is it (this would need adjustment on all RGB values) ?

Did you have all metadata in HEVC (including master display) when playing with madVR? I think it can read it and pass to TV over HDMI (regardless if it uses it or not).
Try different settings to see if this is ignored (like for file playback) or in this case has some impact.
Offline
User avatar

Piotr Wozniacki

  • Posts: 1178
  • Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:17 pm
  • Location: Poland

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostThu Mar 01, 2018 11:24 am

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:Did you have all metadata in HEVC (including master display) when playing with madVR? I think it can read it and pass to TV over HDMI (regardless if it uses it or not).
Try different settings to see if this is ignored (like for file playback) or in this case has some impact.


Andrzej,

I'm a novice user of MPC-HCC, not to mention madVR (downloaded both last year when we discussed them here, but as HDR was NOT supported I just forgot about them). Therefore please try to be more specific with your "testing instructions" as I'm not sure where to look :)

I tried both those HEVC renders which did and those which didn't have "master-display" argument while being rendered, and can't see a conclusive difference between them (if any at all).

The madVR settings: I approach them from the MPC-HC player using Menu->Play->Filters->madVR, right? Or do I leave this alone and only play with MPC-HC's own Options?

Piotr

PS. So far, I have had the Profile1-hdr option in madVR set to "passthrough HDR content to display", so no target gamut has been specified using pixel shader math (P3-DCI is default, I can see)
Last edited by Piotr Wozniacki on Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
AMD TR 2990WX CPU | MSI X399 CARBON AC | 64GB RAM@XMP2933 | 2x RTX 2080Ti GPU | 4x 3TB WD Black RAID0 media drive | 3x 1TB NVMe RAID0 cache drive | SSD SATA system drive | AX1600i PSU | Decklink 12G Extreme | Samsung UHD reference monitor (calibrated)
Offline

Andrew Kolakowski

  • Posts: 6182
  • Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:20 am
  • Location: Poland

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostThu Mar 01, 2018 11:28 am

Piotr Wozniacki wrote:
Andrew Kolakowski wrote:
The madVR settings: I approach them from the MPC-HC player using Menu->Play->Filters->madVR, right? Or do I leave this alone and only play with MPC-HC's own Options?

Piotr


Yes, you can also turn on an icon next to clock in the right bottom desktop corner.

Read this:

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php? ... ost1810891

you want madVR to be in HDR PassThrough mode.

While file is playing press CTR+J which will show you a lot of interesting stats.
Last edited by Andrew Kolakowski on Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
Offline
User avatar

Piotr Wozniacki

  • Posts: 1178
  • Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:17 pm
  • Location: Poland

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostThu Mar 01, 2018 11:30 am

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:
you want madVR to be in Her PassThrough mode.


Her? What do you mean :)
AMD TR 2990WX CPU | MSI X399 CARBON AC | 64GB RAM@XMP2933 | 2x RTX 2080Ti GPU | 4x 3TB WD Black RAID0 media drive | 3x 1TB NVMe RAID0 cache drive | SSD SATA system drive | AX1600i PSU | Decklink 12G Extreme | Samsung UHD reference monitor (calibrated)
Offline

Andrew Kolakowski

  • Posts: 6182
  • Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:20 am
  • Location: Poland

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostThu Mar 01, 2018 11:40 am

If you make demo clip from web looking the same played with TV and over madVR then it means all is fine (I assume) and you can start other testing.

So:
-HDR Pass Through in madVR
-disable Full Screen Exclusive Mode as with some drivers it won't let force HDR mode
+
5) Nvidia comes to the rescue of all HTPC users who want perfect quality for both SDR and HDR content: Nvidia's private HDR API allows madVR to dynamically switch the TV into and out of HDR mode, as needed. For this to work, you need to deactivate the OS "HDR and advanced color" switch.
Offline
User avatar

Piotr Wozniacki

  • Posts: 1178
  • Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:17 pm
  • Location: Poland

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostThu Mar 01, 2018 12:37 pm

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:If you make demo clip from web looking the same played with TV and over madVR then it means all is fine (I assume) and you can start other testing.

So:
-HDR Pass Through in madVR
-disable Full Screen Exclusive Mode as with some drivers it won't let force HDR mode
+
5) Nvidia comes to the rescue of all HTPC users who want perfect quality for both SDR and HDR content: Nvidia's private HDR API allows madVR to dynamically switch the TV into and out of HDR mode, as needed. For this to work, you need to deactivate the OS "HDR and advanced color" switch.

Andrew,

I do run HDR in pass-through mode.
I don't need to do the other 2 things as I'm getting perfect HDR mode full screen.

My only problem is the hue discrepancy between the Resolve-previewed source and HEVC output. Answering your previous question - yes, when I load an encoded HEVC MP4 clip into Resolve, it looks identical to the (graded) source. This is when I play it back from the Media Storage panel (which as I understand it allows to disregard any current project settings - is that right)?

Piotr
AMD TR 2990WX CPU | MSI X399 CARBON AC | 64GB RAM@XMP2933 | 2x RTX 2080Ti GPU | 4x 3TB WD Black RAID0 media drive | 3x 1TB NVMe RAID0 cache drive | SSD SATA system drive | AX1600i PSU | Decklink 12G Extreme | Samsung UHD reference monitor (calibrated)
Offline

Andrew Kolakowski

  • Posts: 6182
  • Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:20 am
  • Location: Poland

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostThu Mar 01, 2018 1:13 pm

What if you play some demo clip from the web out of Resolve? Does red look desaturated? If you would be colorist would you say Resolve preview is correct or file playback/madVR?

Key question- is this hue discrepancy just started recently or was it always like this?

You have to move to:
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=53139&start=150#p394319
points 3,4.

What if you render as DNxHR/ProRes, load to Atoms and play it from there to TV?
Or even export to XAVC with Sony Catalyst and play from camera (not sure if it has HDMI 2.0 output).
It may be just Resolve wrong preview- where all others are the same. So far 2 ways are the same- it's Resolve which is different.
Offline
User avatar

Piotr Wozniacki

  • Posts: 1178
  • Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:17 pm
  • Location: Poland

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostThu Mar 01, 2018 1:39 pm

A quick answer for now:

-definitely, my Resolve grades look how they should (color is subjective, bu we're talking a huge red domination in the HEVC renders here, so no doubts whatsoever which are correct)

- my older HEVC renders also look much better now with hue adjusted; cannot compare them to the exact grades they originated from as they don't exist anymore. But the mere fact that - with such a big shift towards green I'm applying now - greens are not over-saturated at all speaks for itself.

- it's definitely not my Samsung, as I'm seeing the same on the Inferno (now that I can display my renders on it through HDMI, as yet another extended Windows monitor)

- I'll be experimenting further, because I tend to suspect something pretty obvious needs adjustment in the ffmpeg/libx265 command line.

Piotr
AMD TR 2990WX CPU | MSI X399 CARBON AC | 64GB RAM@XMP2933 | 2x RTX 2080Ti GPU | 4x 3TB WD Black RAID0 media drive | 3x 1TB NVMe RAID0 cache drive | SSD SATA system drive | AX1600i PSU | Decklink 12G Extreme | Samsung UHD reference monitor (calibrated)
Offline
User avatar

Piotr Wozniacki

  • Posts: 1178
  • Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:17 pm
  • Location: Poland

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostThu Mar 01, 2018 3:09 pm

After playing with the new (to me) madVR version, I can see some interesting things going on.
madVR.JPG
madVR.JPG (57.09 KiB) Viewed 2126 times


- out of all the many controls in the Samsung SUHD branch, the only one that is functional at all is the "The display expects the following RGB output levels:" which properly toggles between TV and PC (or video and data) level ranges.

All other switches/checkboxes and options in the "calibration" branch and "Profile 1" sub-branches have no visible meaning whatsoever. Interestingly, the color coordinates (called "target gamut" here and accessible only when instead of pass-through, "process HDR content by using pixel shader math" option is chosen) are among them...Reminds of how the xlib265 command line "target-display" is totally ignored at render time.

All of them only become active when a HDR-graded and exported, but not yet rendered to HEVC, clip is played. So it looks like the HDR mode (enforced by one or both the colorprim=bt2020 and/or colormatrix=bt2020nc, but not transfer=smpte2084, arguments) basically freezes things at their current state... BTW: once the first HDR HEVC clip has been played back with MPC-HC/madVR combo, my Samsung SUHD screen is switched to HDR mode permanently (i.e. stays HDR even when another content - say the Chrome window - is draged upon it), and can only return do regular mode by disconnecting from the GPU...

Piotr
AMD TR 2990WX CPU | MSI X399 CARBON AC | 64GB RAM@XMP2933 | 2x RTX 2080Ti GPU | 4x 3TB WD Black RAID0 media drive | 3x 1TB NVMe RAID0 cache drive | SSD SATA system drive | AX1600i PSU | Decklink 12G Extreme | Samsung UHD reference monitor (calibrated)
Offline

Andrew Kolakowski

  • Posts: 6182
  • Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:20 am
  • Location: Poland

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostThu Mar 01, 2018 3:33 pm

Piotr Wozniacki wrote:A quick answer for now:

-definitely, my Resolve grades look how they should (color is subjective, bu we're talking a huge red domination in the HEVC renders here, so no doubts whatsoever which are correct)

- my older HEVC renders also look much better now with hue adjusted; cannot compare them to the exact grades they originated from as they don't exist anymore. But the mere fact that - with such a big shift towards green I'm applying now - greens are not over-saturated at all speaks for itself.

- it's definitely not my Samsung, as I'm seeing the same on the Inferno (now that I can display my renders on it through HDMI, as yet another extended Windows monitor)

- I'll be experimenting further, because I tend to suspect something pretty obvious needs adjustment in the ffmpeg/libx265 command line.

Piotr


This is not what I asked.

I never heard you saying in the past that you have such a big discrepancy between Resolve preview and file playback. So is this new problem or did it always exist?

It's not ffmpeg encode itself, but it can be issue with metadata. Problem is that when you play file by TV all this metadata seems to be ignored (TV probably uses e.g. Rec.2020 default settings). Why all those sample files made for Samsung, LG etc have mastering display info if TVs seems to ignore them anyway?
Your hope is madVR in this case as this passes data over HDMI (like Resolve preview does).

If you are in HDR pasthroug mode then those setting won't do anything as madVR pipes YUV data as is (with metadata I assume). It's TV which processes it according to metadata. You can try different encode with different master display metadata to check if this is passed to TV and affects its processing in any way.
Maybe Resolve HDMI does pass all this info and file playback/madVR doesn't.
Here is 1000$ question- what exactly does Resolve HDR mode enable on HDMI and where does it take all needed info from (project settings)? Does this flagging follows project settings- with white point etc included (maybe Resolve uses some default values regardless of project settings, which of course would be wrong, specially if TV does use this info for further processing!)?

Press CTR+J when playing with madVR and it will show you what it reads from file headers.
I would also rather disable calibration controls for the display just to make sure madVR does not alter your signal in any way. Your file YUV data matches (except compression) Resolve timeline, so you don't want it to be altered in any way at all! If anything it should be altered only by TV based on metadata (same as it apparently happens for Resolve HDMI preview). In this case madVR is your BM card which passes data as is. I would also rather have in Nvidia setting set output to YUV 10bit, not RGB.

Yo would need box like HDFury which would show you what metadata is traveling over HDMI in case of Resolve and madVR preview, so you could compare it. This is probably the first thing to do to 100% validate Resolve/madVR HDMI HDR preview- does it really switch all metadata according to the setting (at least for established formats P3 D65, Rec.2020 etc).

If you want to switch TV back to SDR mode you need to play some SDR (Rec.709) file with madVR. This should force TV to go back to SDR. If it doesn't maybe you have HDR set on Windows level (or there is other issue- driver, Full Screen Exclusive Mode related).

Any "by eye" adjustment to encode/TV HDMI port or preview itself is not a real solution. It may give you similar preview but this is rather poor work around.
Offline

Andrew Kolakowski

  • Posts: 6182
  • Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:20 am
  • Location: Poland

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostThu Mar 01, 2018 7:07 pm

I'm 99% sure ( after reading madVR release notes and discussions on doom9) that madVR sends all metadata to TV. If it's missing in the files headers or "corrupted" then some default one is sent.
So if actual YUV data is the same (which we know it's) it's now a matter of matching Resolve HDMI metadata in order to get 100% the same preview. It has to work.

update:
It has been confirmed (by the guy who uses HDFury Vertext box)- madVR will send all HDR metadata including master display info if you are in HDR Pass Through or HDR process mode. It's always read from file and passed ( whatever it's there- even if "wrong"). There is no way (atm.) to overwrite original file info, so if you want to test different flagging you need to encode new file with different metadata.

You should get HDFury box, e.g. Integral (179$) for your workflow.
Offline
User avatar

Piotr Wozniacki

  • Posts: 1178
  • Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:17 pm
  • Location: Poland

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostMon Mar 05, 2018 10:55 am

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:It has been confirmed (by the guy who uses HDFury Vertext box)- madVR will send all HDR metadata including master display info if you are in HDR Pass Through or HDR process mode. It's always read from file and passed ( whatever it's there- even if "wrong"). There is no way (atm.) to overwrite original file info, so if you want to test different flagging you need to encode new file with different metadata.


So - even in the HDR process mode of madVR - I'm not going to see any changes in the picture, even if - instead of HDR pass-through - I select HDR processing, and enter different values to what I had used in the master-display parameter while encoding HEVC (color coordinates, white point, etc.)? Asking, because I have no access to my working system temporarily (have just sold both 1080s and receive - but not yet installed - my new Titan Xp Collectors Edition). BTW, the card is so beautifully packaged that it might take me another several hours just looking at it, before I actually open the box and install the card in my system, and check for myself :)

Piotr
AMD TR 2990WX CPU | MSI X399 CARBON AC | 64GB RAM@XMP2933 | 2x RTX 2080Ti GPU | 4x 3TB WD Black RAID0 media drive | 3x 1TB NVMe RAID0 cache drive | SSD SATA system drive | AX1600i PSU | Decklink 12G Extreme | Samsung UHD reference monitor (calibrated)
Offline

Andrew Kolakowski

  • Posts: 6182
  • Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:20 am
  • Location: Poland

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostMon Mar 05, 2018 11:11 am

HDR processing option will be adjusting video using GPU before sending to HDMI. It meant to do what TV is doing inside- tone mapping to different brightness peak value, gamut mapping etc.
Offline
User avatar

Piotr Wozniacki

  • Posts: 1178
  • Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:17 pm
  • Location: Poland

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostSun Mar 11, 2018 5:15 pm

Is there a consensus which HDR processing should be used when playing back HEVC HDR10 deliverables on the secondary Windows monitor under Windows 10 - the OS HDR (set in the OS) or NV HDR (which I believe stands for nVidia HDR)?

Asking, because so far I had the OS HDR on without even noticing it; Ctrl+J in MPC-HC/madVR playback displays this info in the very first line but I never looked there, being more focused on some other details. Today I turned this OFF (in Display properties screen of Windows), and the string 'OS HDR' has been replaced with 'NV HDR' - but more importantly, the colors became more natural (less saturated), and very very close to what they look like before exporting from Resolve...

Similarly: having installed the newest nVidia driver (for my new Titan Xp), I have notice there is a new option in the Control Panel's "Change Resolution" screen: one can now "Use default color settings", or "Use nVidia color settings" - the latter used to be the only choice and part of setting the resolution where desktop color depth, output format, output color depth and output dynamic range are defined... Interestingly, even if I leave it at the default settings - playing back a HDR clip (with MPC-HC/madVR) looks exactly the same as when I set YUV4:2:2 10bit Limited explicitly...

Piotr
AMD TR 2990WX CPU | MSI X399 CARBON AC | 64GB RAM@XMP2933 | 2x RTX 2080Ti GPU | 4x 3TB WD Black RAID0 media drive | 3x 1TB NVMe RAID0 cache drive | SSD SATA system drive | AX1600i PSU | Decklink 12G Extreme | Samsung UHD reference monitor (calibrated)
Offline

Andrew Kolakowski

  • Posts: 6182
  • Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:20 am
  • Location: Poland

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostSun Mar 11, 2018 10:58 pm

If you have calibrated TV and grade to this TV then you don't want any processing on your video at all. You want pass through. Why would you let some software to do its "unknown" processing on signal which you just so passionately created (graded) ?

You should follow guides which are out there.
Told you to turn off OS HDR controls at the very beginning (to use NV ones), but you like to ignore instructions :D
Offline
User avatar

Piotr Wozniacki

  • Posts: 1178
  • Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:17 pm
  • Location: Poland

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostMon Mar 12, 2018 6:17 am

I simply missed it, Andrew - I never ignore what you're saying :)

Besides, it's not all that simple at all. Only the first play-back after turning Windows HDR off (i.e. using NV HDR) showed better (less saturated) colors - next MPC-HC/madVR usages suffer from the same over-saturated colors. Another very strange behavior of the player is that - while normally I use it in the HDR pass-through mode - I experimented a bit with processing HDR content using pixel shader math, just for the sake of experiment. Mostly the controls have no influence on the colors at all - but I seeing that by default, the "fix too bright & saturated pixels by" is set to " 50% luminance reduction and 50% saturation, I changed that to just 15% for luminance and 85% to saturation reduction - and it immediately desaturated the picture to the more correct color saturation upon clicking "Apply" - but again: it only worked once! When I tried to repeat this with another clip, this option ceased to influence the picture at all... So, dear Andrew, the behavior of this MPC-HC/madVR player is very unpredictable, to say the least :(

All in all, I still get strongly over-saturated colors (with definite hue bias towards red). Another thing I'm still not quite sure about is whether I should set my Samsung properties' "the display expects the following RGB output" to PC levels (0-255) or TV levels ((16-235) - both the HDR teaser clips from Sony and LG I downloaded from the net look definitely better with the full (0-255) levels (deeper blacks, etc.) - but when I play my own HEVC renders, it's better to use limited (16-235) values as this helps desaturate those ugly colors. Which setting is the correct one? I should add while we're at the levels, that all my HDR10 grading I've always been doing with "Full" in both the clips' attributes and monitoring section of project properties...Also, I've always exported with the full data levels... So why would my HEVC renders look better with the player set to the TV levels, limited to 16-235? Is it the HEVC rendering which changes my full levels to limited?

Piotr
AMD TR 2990WX CPU | MSI X399 CARBON AC | 64GB RAM@XMP2933 | 2x RTX 2080Ti GPU | 4x 3TB WD Black RAID0 media drive | 3x 1TB NVMe RAID0 cache drive | SSD SATA system drive | AX1600i PSU | Decklink 12G Extreme | Samsung UHD reference monitor (calibrated)
Offline

Andrew Kolakowski

  • Posts: 6182
  • Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:20 am
  • Location: Poland

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostMon Mar 12, 2018 10:54 am

Your h265 will be flagged limited levels as this is what x265 is by default as this is YUV based format.
You need to add range=full into x265 parameters (maybe also -color_range 2 into ffmpeg to tell that you expect full range).
You should not be using full range for final x265 encode- it can only cause problems.
Offline
User avatar

Piotr Wozniacki

  • Posts: 1178
  • Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:17 pm
  • Location: Poland

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostMon Mar 12, 2018 11:31 am

Yeah, I'm aware of that; MediaInfo says also those LG and Sony HDR teasers are of limited levels; why would they look so much better with my Samsung expecting Full data levels set in madVR?

Also, it's not due to my Samsung being so poorly calibrated, as monitoring Full data from Resolve (and with all clips enforced to "full" in their properties) - I'm getting a picture 100% compliant with what my scopes are showing, with beautiful blacks, super-brights and color saturation. What can be wrong, then?

BTW, I'm having a problem with monitoring I never had in Resolve 12.5; unless i set monitoring to use 4:4:4 SDI, I cannot get full fps playback of my UHD@25p clips (even with my new Titan)! The problem doesn't exist with UHD@50p clips/projects; here I can tick the 444 SDI box or not - there is no difference whatsoever, and I'm getting a solid 50 fps regardless...To make it even more strange, I'm able to play back my 25p UHD clips with full speed and without 444 SDI settings if - in Resolve Preferences - I enforce the system to use OpenCL instead of CUDA!!!! And it's not because my clips are H.264, as the problem becomes even more serious when playing back the timeline which has been cached to DNxHR HDR (but again: in 25p only; 50p plays back with full 50 fps regardless of this setting)...

Andrzej - please tell me this: when Decklink is sending a 25p timeline through HDMI, does my TV switch from its native 50 Hz to 25 Hz? If it does, perhaps it doesn't accept 4:2:0 with this refresh rate and expects 4:4:4 instead, which forces some additional calculations to be done if 444 is NOT activated? But even if it is so - why I didn't see this back with DR 12.5....

Oh, and with my Inferno (connected to the SDI output of my Decklink) it's exactly the opposite: when I set monitoring to SDI 4:4:44, the monitor shows "no signal" info (whereas without it, it detects 6G SDI with 25p timeline and 12G SDI with 50p one). Meaning I just cannot use both the Samsung and the Shogun simultaneously for monitoring UHD@25p at all (or at least not with full 25 fps :( )...

What do you make of that?

Piotr

PS. Just checked the UHD@25p playback speed with only the Shogun hooked up, and of course "Use 4:4:4 SDI" unchecked in monitoring settings. Still the same stutter as with the Samsung - so it definitely is NOT my TV which makes UHD@25p playback slow-down unless 4:4:4 is used...
AMD TR 2990WX CPU | MSI X399 CARBON AC | 64GB RAM@XMP2933 | 2x RTX 2080Ti GPU | 4x 3TB WD Black RAID0 media drive | 3x 1TB NVMe RAID0 cache drive | SSD SATA system drive | AX1600i PSU | Decklink 12G Extreme | Samsung UHD reference monitor (calibrated)
Offline

Andrew Kolakowski

  • Posts: 6182
  • Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:20 am
  • Location: Poland

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostMon Mar 12, 2018 1:10 pm

TV will follow incoming signal fps for sure. It won't connect over 50Hz for 25p signal as it makes no sense. Internally TV may display it at 50 or even 75Hz, but this is different matter.
If you want to be safe stay with 4:2:2 as it's good enough. 444 will be most likely 8bit for 50/60p.

Maybe you have wrong Resolve settings- project v. monitoring
Offline
User avatar

Piotr Wozniacki

  • Posts: 1178
  • Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:17 pm
  • Location: Poland

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostMon Mar 12, 2018 1:29 pm

Yeah, I know all that, Andrew.

What I do NOT know is why the heck 25fps cannot be achieved without 4:4:4!!! And why it can again using OCL on my CUDA Titan XP (and no, it's not the Titan fault - I saw it also with my 2x GTX 1080 before I sold them away). But all this is a problem with DR 14 only - with 12.5 I stayed away from 4:4:4 as with 50p, it does indeed switch my Samsung to 8 bits only (it can be seen very clearly with banding in areas where no banding at all exists with 4:2:0). And yet, both UHD@26p and UHD@50p played back happily with full solid fps, and 4:2:0 signal to my monitor(s)....

And one more thing: it looks like 2x GTX 1080 was more powerful than 1x Titan Xp is now, as this drop of UHD@25p playback speed has only been visible when I used so much grading (OFX, NR) that I had to cache the timeline - playing back from my NVMe cache drive used to always be full speed with DR 12 and 2x 1080; with DR 14 it's some 23 fps with 2x GTX 1080 and only some 20 fps with the single Titan Xp (and 4:2:0 monitoring).

That said, I'm far from implying the Titan Xp is not powerful enough to play UHD@25p with full fps; it's some lack of optimization somewhere in the pipeline which only goes away with 4:4:4 connection. Go figure :(

I asked Peter Chamberlain here what he thinks might be the reason, and whether he's aware of some code changes between the 14 and 12.5 which might be responsible, but his answer indicated I'm the only one with this problem and he doesn't know what might be causing it. He also sent me off to "my local BMD support" - now a question to you, Andrzej: do you know where/who that might be? Certainly not the retailer I bought my Decklink from, haha.

Piotr

PS. As to the nVidia drivers, I'm using the newest one (391.01 )
Last edited by Piotr Wozniacki on Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
AMD TR 2990WX CPU | MSI X399 CARBON AC | 64GB RAM@XMP2933 | 2x RTX 2080Ti GPU | 4x 3TB WD Black RAID0 media drive | 3x 1TB NVMe RAID0 cache drive | SSD SATA system drive | AX1600i PSU | Decklink 12G Extreme | Samsung UHD reference monitor (calibrated)
Offline

Andrew Kolakowski

  • Posts: 6182
  • Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:20 am
  • Location: Poland

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostMon Mar 12, 2018 1:36 pm

Strange issues. I have bit limited trust to Resolve+ BM cards (people still report 4:2:2 v 4:4:4 monitoring problems). Thankfully I don't have to deal with it, so I'm not bothered that much about all those issues.

You upgraded drivers- don't think latest=greatest (quite often it's very opposite). Try ones recommended by BM.

I'm definitely not a BM support :D
Offline
User avatar

Piotr Wozniacki

  • Posts: 1178
  • Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:17 pm
  • Location: Poland

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostMon Mar 12, 2018 1:43 pm

As to the drivers:

- on nVidia side I had no choice but install the latest one, as the choice of Titan XP drivers is still rather limited

- on BM Video Desktop side: going to upgrade to the newest which has just been published in a moment.

Piotr

PS. About the official BMD Support - do you think I should be using the same emails I used when my first Decklink went south? I thought it only was the BMD hw support, but might be mistaken...
AMD TR 2990WX CPU | MSI X399 CARBON AC | 64GB RAM@XMP2933 | 2x RTX 2080Ti GPU | 4x 3TB WD Black RAID0 media drive | 3x 1TB NVMe RAID0 cache drive | SSD SATA system drive | AX1600i PSU | Decklink 12G Extreme | Samsung UHD reference monitor (calibrated)
Offline

Andrew Kolakowski

  • Posts: 6182
  • Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:20 am
  • Location: Poland

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostMon Mar 12, 2018 2:02 pm

There is one BM support as far as I know. It deals with everything.
Offline
User avatar

Piotr Wozniacki

  • Posts: 1178
  • Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:17 pm
  • Location: Poland

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostMon Mar 12, 2018 2:44 pm

OK, so no changes whatsoever after having installed the current Desktop Video driver (10.9.11).

Also, some more observations:

- with the 4:2:0 monitoring, my H.264 (GH5) clips - originated timeline in an UHD@25p project only struggles at just below the full (25) fps speed in the Color page; no such problem in the Edit page

- that it's some strange lack of optimization and certainly not the lack of horsepower can bee seen watching the Windows Task Manager, clearly showing the CPU taxed at around 40-50%, and GPU - just some 15% only!!!

I will try and write to the same BND Support people who were very helpful last year in replacing my Decklink under warranty (for the white random sparks all over the screen); we'll see what they say in the subject. In the meantime, Andrzej - could you help me with a seemingly trivial task of configuring my Decklink's SDI output so that it down-converts from UHD to HD in order to put my Inferno to its native resolution? I've done what should be enough to achieve that in the "Conversion" tab of the Desktop Video GUI - but the result is disappointing: with the down-conversion active, my Shogun Inferno is simply blank... I'm using the "A" labelled 12G SDI output -- perhaps it'snot the right one for my purpose? Or is it at all possible to have the HDMI monitor at UHD simultaneously with the SDI monitor at HD?!!

Cheers

Piotr
AMD TR 2990WX CPU | MSI X399 CARBON AC | 64GB RAM@XMP2933 | 2x RTX 2080Ti GPU | 4x 3TB WD Black RAID0 media drive | 3x 1TB NVMe RAID0 cache drive | SSD SATA system drive | AX1600i PSU | Decklink 12G Extreme | Samsung UHD reference monitor (calibrated)
Offline

Andrew Kolakowski

  • Posts: 6182
  • Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:20 am
  • Location: Poland

Re: Which format for HDR10 deliverables?

PostMon Mar 12, 2018 2:48 pm

Is there any real change in playback if you disable BM card monitoring?

Read manual. As far as I know downconverter signal is on SDI B. Not sure if HDMI follows main or downconveted signal (I think main).
PreviousNext

Return to DaVinci Resolve

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Andrew Kolakowski, Google [Bot], Google Feedfetcher, Janne_Laiho, pixelzygote, roger.magnusson, soooner, xunile and 80 guests