RCM + Raw gama/gammut - why?

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GregGreenhaw

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RCM + Raw gama/gammut - why?

PostSat Dec 03, 2016 12:55 pm

Why does the Raw tab let you adjust the red gammut and gamma when you have it mapped in the RCM preferences? See screen shot below to prove RMC is enabled. How does this work ? Does it reapply the raw tab gamma on top of the RCM gamma as if you were manually doing them in the curves? Changing the RCM timeline gamma affects the image with the raw tabs gamma applied.
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waltervolpatto

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Re: RCM + Raw gama/gammut - why?

PostSat Dec 03, 2016 6:48 pm

I think because of legacy: it was there way before that RMC.

I agree it is a bit odd...
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Re: RCM + Raw gama/gammut - why?

PostSun Dec 04, 2016 9:06 am

It seems that RCM is inactive when decoding RED raw clips.
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GregGreenhaw

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Re: RCM + Raw gama/gammut - why?

PostMon Dec 05, 2016 8:51 pm

Peter Cave wrote:It seems that RCM is inactive when decoding RED raw clips.

Changing the RCM mappings updates the image with the red raw tab gamma/color space applied
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Alexandre Westphal

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Re: RCM + Raw gama/gammut - why?

PostTue Dec 06, 2016 6:43 am

Isn't that normal ? If you have for example différent kind of media in your timeline (from different cameras) ...so you choose an average gamma-gamut for the timeline (and that might depend of your output) and play with the gamma-gamut of the clips-input...isn't that the scene refered things? Am I misunderstanding something ?
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GregGreenhaw

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Re: RCM + Raw gama/gammut - why?

PostTue Dec 06, 2016 2:33 pm

Alex West wrote:Isn't that normal ? If you have for example différent kind of media in your timeline (from different cameras) ...so you choose an average gamma-gamut for the timeline (and that might depend of your output) and play with the gamma-gamut of the clips-input...isn't that the scene refered things? Am I misunderstanding something ?

Input transforms on raw footage are supposed to me ignored. My guess is that the gamma settings in the raw tab apply post RCM transform and function like using the curves or something. Not sure what raw settings to use as the default , maybe use "camera meta data" option is the most accurate, but i'm not sure. I wish someone from black magic would chime in on this.
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Alexandre Westphal

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Re: RCM + Raw gama/gammut - why?

PostTue Dec 06, 2016 3:05 pm

According to the manual p1050 (important one by the way) camera raw settings apply before RCM. I suppose it bypasses the input settings of the RCM and I would guess it is then translate in the gamma-gamut you choose for your timeline then again for your output if different.
So the settings you use for interpreting raw footage would basically be your base for the colorgrading adjustments and depend on factors like the time you have for it, the look you want to achieve (and how)...
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GregGreenhaw

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Re: RCM + Raw gama/gammut - why?

PostThu Dec 08, 2016 6:11 pm

Alex West wrote:According to the manual p1050 (important one by the way) camera raw settings apply before RCM. I suppose it bypasses the input settings of the RCM and I would guess it is then translate in the gamma-gamut you choose for your timeline then again for your output if different.
So the settings you use for interpreting raw footage would basically be your base for the colorgrading adjustments and depend on factors like the time you have for it, the look you want to achieve (and how)...

Page 176 of the manual also says: "as a result, the camera raw project settings and camera raw palette of the color page are disabled, because the RCM is controlling the debayering of all camera raw clips." so it appears to be conflicting info.
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Alexandre Westphal

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Re: RCM + Raw gama/gammut - why?

PostFri Dec 09, 2016 11:17 am

Hi Greg,

You're absolutely right indeed. My mistake !
I made some tests this morning with a red project and it seems to work as follow :
1 / When choosing Resolve Color Management, the camera raw is bypassed by the input settings of the color management tab, except if you choose "bypass" for the input. In that case, the camera raw settings seems to be taken as an input value. But that is true, and maybe it should be more clear. The fact that the camera settings are bypassed should maybe implyed that this tab is greyed in the project settings and in the color page.
2 / And when choosing RCM, you can also choose a different input for each clip with a right clic>input regardless of the general input choosen in the preference manager (that is just a default interpretation input value).
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GregGreenhaw

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Re: RCM + Raw gama/gammut - why?

PostFri Dec 09, 2016 2:31 pm

Alex West wrote:Hi Greg,

You're absolutely right indeed. My mistake !
I made some tests this morning with a red project and it seems to work as follow :
1 / When choosing Resolve Color Management, the camera raw is bypassed by the input settings of the color management tab, except if you choose "bypass" for the input. In that case, the camera raw settings seems to be taken as an input value. But that is true, and maybe it should be more clear. The fact that the camera settings are bypassed should maybe implyed that this tab is greyed in the project settings and in the color page.
2 / And when choosing RCM, you can also choose a different input for each clip with a right clic>input regardless of the general input choosen in the preference manager (that is just a default interpretation input value).


Looks like you solved the riddle!

So if you working on a red project in RCM you have to choose a bogus input transform for it to work as expected

Thank you
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JPOwens

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Re: RCM + Raw gama/gammut - why?

PostFri Dec 09, 2016 5:37 pm

Out of curiosity, I'm wondering if the camera metadata functionality - which you would expect to disappear if choosing an ACES workflow - is really designed to be accessible under Resolve Color Management on an elective basis; and the technical implementation and description have not completely caught up and synchronized...

jPo, CSI

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