Color Grade Versions

The grade versioning in Davinci is really a nice feature and very flexible. It would be even more flexible if there existed a possibility to save an additional timeline version of the grades.

e.g. I have 20 clips. Some have the same grade version, some have special grade versions. I want to define a timeline specific version that contains all the individual clip decisions ( versions ). This could even include the take selectors. Then when I switch to specific timeline version, all clip versions would be selected accordingly. This could be very helpful, especially for presentations with the client. With one click or key combination I could switch between timeline versions (color grades and take selections).

You could just save a copy of the timeline, give it a new name, and then make the timeline correction as needed.

Me personally, i think Timeline grades are dangerous and best used for very specific purposes. For what you're doing, I would just create a new version and then do a ripple grade on certain selected clips and add one node at the very end that changes the look as needed. One version has this extra node; one version doesn't have the extra node.

You could just save a copy of the timeline, give it a new name, and then make the timeline correction as needed.

Me personally, i think Timeline grades are dangerous and best used for very specific purposes. For what you're doing, I would just create a new version and then do a ripple grade on certain selected clips and add one node at the very end that changes the look as needed. One version has this extra node; one version doesn't have the extra node.

Thanks Mark! Sorry, I meant clip grades on the timeline not Timeline grades. My idea was to have only one sequence with grade selections ( local or remote ) versionized. This way you can make further sequence fine tunings ( trimming, reorder clips, etc ) and don't have to repeat these tweaks on every copy of the timeline.

My idea was to have only one sequence with grade selections ( local or remote ) versionized. This way you can make further sequence fine tunings ( trimming, reorder clips, etc ) and don't have to repeat these tweaks on every copy of the timeline.

Doesn't Remote grading give you exactly that function? If I understand you correctly, you want to be able to tweak your timeline edit, and tweak additional color nodes as you go along, and you want those node changes to be tracked through all of the timelines which use those clips? I was under the impression that's exactly what Remote grading is for.

Doesn't Remote grading give you exactly that function? If I understand you correctly, you want to be able to tweak your timeline edit, and tweak additional color nodes as you go along, and you want those node changes to be tracked through all of the timelines which use those clips? I was under the impression that's exactly what Remote grading is for.

Thanks Kays. With a remote grade you define a reference to a node cluster for a certain clip. As we know you can create various versions. Now you can define for every clip in the timeline which version should be applied. You can even apply a local version to a clip in the timeline. What I want is to version this decision mix within a timeline. As Marc already mentioned you can create a copy of your timeline and make your grade decision for every copy. So far the same effort. But, if you have fine tunings on the timeline ( trimming, reorder clips, etc. ) you would have to touch every copy and repeat the changes. Sure you can do it, but it's difficult to synchronize the changes. A simple copy doesn't the trick, because you would loose all grade decisions.

For example you work with the client on the computer and he want's some reordering of the clips, or trimmings or other edits and want to watch the the different graded versions how they feel. With copying timelines you need a lot of time. Selecting a version from the context menu in the timeline you can evaluate the end result almost immediately.

So basically what you're asking for is Remote Grading AND Remote Timelines.

I know that we all work differently and with different clients, but personally I try to discourage too much "experimentation" particularly with the edit at the grading stage. I just had a conversation with a client who asked me if it's possible to make edit changes all the way until the end -- I explained that while it is absolutely possible, he's hiring me to color grade and not re-edit his film.

Basically, it's difficult for me to fathom a scenario where the client was so wishy washy that he would not be settled on a grade, or on an edit, and who would insist on going back and forth from edits A to B to C and from grade A to B to C simultaneously.

I realize that I'm not providing you with the answer that you seek, but as far as I know, Premiere nor AVID offer this option either.

So basically what you're asking for is Remote Grading AND Remote Timelines.

Thanks Kays
Yes, that's pretty good. Why not?

I realize that I'm not providing you with the answer that you seek, but as far as I know, Premiere nor AVID offer this option either.

The possibilites of Farlight within an editor go also beyond the possibilities of other editors! This would only be an advantage over other products.

Basically, it's difficult for me to fathom a scenario where the client was so wishy washy that he would not be settled on a grade, or on an edit, and who would insist on going back and forth from edits A to B to C and from grade A to B to C simultaneously.

Perhaps they know that it's not that easy to go back and forth?

You are right, we all work differently, but this does not mean that new possibilities can potentially influence our workflow positively. I have heard again and again that it is not necessary to have a complete audio suite in an editor ( you can use Logic, Protools, Digital Performer ...) . Fortunately Blackmagic had a different opinion and realized it in this new release. Cool!

I know that we all work differently and with different clients, but personally I try to discourage too much "experimentation" particularly with the edit at the grading stage. I just had a conversation with a client who asked me if it's possible to make edit changes all the way until the end -- I explained that while it is absolutely possible, he's hiring me to color grade and not re-edit his film.

Interesting, experimenting is so cool, but with the current situation it's really hard to accomplish. Simply too much work. I would also try to discourage the client in this situation. And really we have already take selectors, so why not version the timeline with the grade decisions and the take selections? This feature could speedup and enrich our workflow.

Thanks again Kays for this constructive discussion.

Experimenting is fun when the client is paying hourly!

But sure, if Blackmagic wants to implement something like you're suggesting, why not? I think they need to figure it out in such a way that users can still retain individual timelines as well as "aliased" timelines.

I think it's doable, but I suspect they would need to hear from far more users that ask for it, in the same way that a lot of people complained about Resolve's poor audio capabilities before Blackmagic did something about it.

Experimenting is fun when the client is paying hourly!

Sure, even more fun

But sure, if Blackmagic wants to implement something like you're suggesting, why not? I think they need to figure it out in such a way that users can still retain individual timelines as well as "aliased" timelines.

If you want, you can still copy the timeline and work like before

I think it's doable, but I suspect they would need to hear from far more users that ask for it, in the same way that a lot of people complained about Resolve's poor audio capabilities before Blackmagic did something about it.

Me too and really it's necessary.

I have the current scenario:

My colleague is editing the movie in a Davinci Project with proxy footage ( not in-house ). I'm color grading a rough cut. He sends me an updated cutlist (fcpxml). I import the new timeline and now, how it's possible to merge my graded timeline with the new one? I have only the option to select again the appropriate version for every clip ( but only with remote grades, local grades don't work ). In my opinion it should at least be possible to merge two timelines without affecting the grade decisions ( only the EDL ). It's possible to import an EDL in a new video track, but it does not apply the grades to the new track.

What's the solution for this problem?

My colleague is editing the movie in a Davinci Project with proxy footage ( not in-house ). I'm color grading a rough cut. He sends me an updated cutlist (fcpxml). I import the new timeline and now, how it's possible to merge my graded timeline with the new one? I have only the option to select again the appropriate version for every clip ( but only with remote grades, local grades don't work ). In my opinion it should at least be possible to merge two timelines without affecting the grade decisions ( only the EDL ). It's possible to import an EDL in a new video track, but it does not apply the grades to the new track.

What's the solution for this problem?

What's wrong with Remote Grades? They were designed exactly for the issue that you're describing. You sound as if you don't want to use them. Aside from that, the typical post workflow is that the edit gets locked before color grading (and sound mix and music composition) get going. The issue that you're describing is shared by all those other departments and manual reconforming is normally the best solution (there are some 3rd party solutions, but they're clunky at best). The workflow you're wishing for would be considerably simpler if you were both using Resolve 14 which allows for collaborative timelines, but it sounds like your editor is on FCP.

What's wrong with Remote Grades? They were designed exactly for the issue that you're describing.
You sound as if you don't want to use them.

Nothing is wrong with that and I use them, but if I load a EDL from my colleague ( working also on Davinci ) it assigns automatically the version 1 of the remote grade to the clips. But If I am on the version 2 there is no way to merge it to version 2 without changing clip by clip. There isn't even a possibility to select them all and change to version 2. If I could change the default version to 2 before merging the EDL, that would be a good solution. But you can't define a default remote version. It's automatically Version 1.

Aside from that, the typical post workflow is that the edit gets locked before color grading (and sound mix and music composition) get going. The issue that you're describing is shared by all those other departments and manual reconforming is normally the best solution (there are some 3rd party solutions, but they're clunky at best).

What's wrong with our workflow. I don't want to wait until my colleague has a final edit to grade the footage. We want work in parallel. So this is not a strange wish.

The workflow you're wishing for would be considerably simpler if you were both using Resolve 14 which allows for collaborative timelines, but it sounds like your editor is on FCP.

As I said my editor is on Davinci Resolve 12.5.5 / 14. And even the merge function within the new compare dialog assigns always the version 1 remote grade (default grade) and you have to confirm clip by clip. There is no merge all command. I personally think, if we could select the default version before merging, the problem would be solved even with EDL's. Ok, we will wait what the final 14 version brings.

Davinci has grown and the whole versioning was designed for the color grading, which also works very well. Now however, other areas have been added, which in my opinion also require versioning. Maybe Blackmagic should think about a new revised versioning system, that takes also the merging process of editing and color grading into account. So what's wrong with my thoughts?

So what's wrong with my thoughts?

Nothing, but make sure you send a request directly to Blackmagic because posting on these forums isn't the same thing. Ideally see if you can connect directly with one of the engineers so that you can explain specifically what you're asking for.

So what's wrong with my thoughts?

Nothing, but make sure you send a request directly to Blackmagic because posting on these forums isn't the same thing. Ideally see if you can connect directly with one of the engineers so that you can explain specifically what you're asking for.

Interesting, when I asked the Blackmagic Support they said I have to post it in the forum. Because I tried to explain them the situation. So what is the right way? I'd like to discuss this with an engineer, really. But how it's possible to get in contact with one of them? Hope I get the chance.

In the meantime thanks for the good company.

My colleague is editing the movie in a Davinci Project with proxy footage ( not in-house ). I'm color grading a rough cut. He sends me an updated cutlist (fcpxml). I import the new timeline and now, how it's possible to merge my graded timeline with the new one? I have only the option to select again the appropriate version for every clip ( but only with remote grades, local grades don't work ). In my opinion it should at least be possible to merge two timelines without affecting the grade decisions ( only the EDL ). It's possible to import an EDL in a new video track, but it does not apply the grades to the new track.

ColorTrace is designed for situations where you have a timeline that is re-edited, and you need to copy over the grades from one version to a new one. It needs a bit of manual intervention, but it's actually pretty fast and simple to use. Any new shot not yet graded will need to be corrected, but all existing shots are still there and the grades can be copied over.

ColorTrace is designed for situations where you have a timeline that is re-edited, and you need to copy over the grades from one version to a new one. It needs a bit of manual intervention, but it's actually pretty fast and simple to use. Any new shot not yet graded will need to be corrected, but all existing shots are still there and the grades can be copied over.

Hi Marc

Thank you very much. Indeed this works very well even with RAW Footage. I simply didn't expect that this feature existed in a function called color trace. It was my fault not to search for.

Thanks again and a nice weekend.

What's the solution for this problem?

I would tell them to commit to the edit, finalize the cut, and only start color-correcting when the picture is actually locked. Seriously.