How are you upmixing audio from stereo to surround?

We are trying to handle our post audio mixing in DaVinci Resolve and discontinue going to Pro Tools HD.
We are just about there...........however, we often need to upmix stereo audio to 7.1 surround.
We have been using Penteo 7 Pro for this in Pro Tools.
Penteo is AAX format only, so we cannot use it in Resolve.

Questions
1. Are others upmixing to surround in DaVinci Resolve?
2. If so, what application are you using? Is it as good as Penteo?
3. Does Blackmagic intend to move to AAX?

This is really our last hangup with handling audio in Resolve. The recent improvements in Resolve have been huge..........but we must be able to upmix to surround.

Thanks.

If you want to buy into Waves software, they have a 2-channel to 5.1-channel upmix plug-in that I believe can work:

https://www.waves.com/plugins/um225-um226

If you want to buy into Waves software, they have a 2-channel to 5.1-channel upmix plug-in that I believe can work:

https://www.waves.com/plugins/um225-um226

Thanks Marc.
Unfortunately, that would be a last resort for us. We went down that road years ago and vowed that we were done dealing with Waves. And we have a large number of excellent plugins so need nothing else Waves offers.
So I sure hope there are other options out there.

I hear that Halo is the go to upmix plug-in, waves not so much.

Not used it myself

I hear that Halo is the go to upmix plug-in, waves not so much.

Not used it myself

Thank you for this suggestion!
It looks very hopeful based on first look.

However, their stated formats are:
"We support AAX, VST, VST3, AU and AudioSuite in both 64-bit and 32-bit versions. RTAS is also available as 32-bit only."

I believe Resolve is still VST2 only (?).
I will contact Nugen Audio to ask if it will run in Resolve.

Thank you Marc,

Just bought the UM226 plugin for $ 39 -~35 euros), is black friday. No risk.

The Halo upmix plug-in is 478 euros. A bit expensive for now. Too bad, it's 7.1 too.

The UM226 interface is displayed correctly in DRV14. It only remains to make it work properly: From 1 stereo to a 5.1: probably Bus / Assign / patch (s) to work
To be continued....
Someone already use the UM226 plugin?

It very simple. Just switch your main track from stereo to 5.1, then drop the UM226 on it and presto pronto a 5.1 upmix. (or route it to a new 5.1 track and use that.
Key is that that track you drop it on is wide enough to cater for the output (eg 5.1/7.1 etc) regardless of the input.

Yes, thanks, I was doing some tests. It's pretty simple and the easiest is on a bus or sub 5.1.

UM226.jpg

Edit: on the Main 5.1 OK. Sub 5.1: currently KO. By cons, a small equalizer clip on and an increase on the bass, well.

I thought I read where the Fairlight page could do this type of upmixing natively, no need for any plug-ins.

Of course, the fact that Fairlight is still more of a concept than a usable tool (no effects whatsoever) could be the issue.

I thought I read where the Fairlight page could do this type of upmixing natively, no need for any plug-ins.

Only DownMixing is possible with the Reduce option on a SubMix Buss (Bus Format window).

Questions
1. Are others upmixing to surround in DaVinci Resolve?

Not within Resolve. I still tend to use Reaper for these duties.

2. If so, what application are you using? Is it as good as Penteo?

Without question: Halo Upmix.

If you specifically need 7.1 support, your options are limited to Penteo 7 Pro AAX within ProTools (the native AU and VST versions only support 5.1), or Halo Upmix.

Halo Upmix provides finer control, and the “Exact” mode is very close to the source.

For Atmos or Ambisonics, only Halo Upmix with the 3D Extension is an option.
Note that the Halo Upmix “3D Extension” isn’t supported within Resolve, and only officially supports ProTools (AAX) and Nuendo (VST3).

3. Does Blackmagic intend to move to AAX?

Only Avid software supports AAX and only HDX hardware supports AAX DSP plugins.

Questions
1. Are others upmixing to surround in DaVinci Resolve?

Not within Resolve. I still tend to use Reaper for these duties.

2. If so, what application are you using? Is it as good as Penteo?

Without question: Halo Upmix.

If you specifically need 7.1 support, your options are limited to Penteo 7 Pro AAX within ProTools (the native version only supports 5.1), or Halo Upmix.

Halo Upmix provides finer control, and the “Exact” mode is very close to the source.

For Atmos or Ambisonics, only Halo Upmix with the 3D Extension is an option.
note that the Halo Upmix “3D Extension” isn’t supported within Resolve, and only officially supports ProTools (AAX) and Nuendo (VST3).

3. Does Blackmagic intend to move to AAX?

Only Avid software supports AAX and only HDX hardware supports AAX DSP plugins.

Thanks Reynaud!
we will go with Halo Upmix.
I think, unless I'm missing something, that this will enable us to do all the audio processing in Resolve.
I've used Pro Tools for mixing/mastering for two decades, but for video staying in Resolve will be a timesaver.

Well, thanks to you all I picked up the Waves plugin even though I had no idea I even needed it when I got up yesterday. For the price of a couple of cocktails and a tip it's a no brainer to have.

Took me a bit to figure out how to insert it into Resolve, but it seems like a nice "in a jam" type of functionality to have. I can confirm that I couldn't get the plugin to work while the audio track is connected to the BUS, but it does seem to work fine when the audio track is connected to the MAIN. The other thing I noticed is that the AU version doesn't work in Resolve while the VST does...weird.

Which brings me to my next question, anyone have any idea how to re-arrange the outputs so that they match the SMPTE/AES order instead of the way they are assigned by the plugin?

Everything is in the manual page 4.

Not really...I mean the manual section is not exactly straightforward, and audio is something that Resolve is still not quite fully there yet. Looks like the patch in/out settings are the only way to do it, but as someone who has been an audio professional for a quarter of a century and has used most pro audio apps, I can frankly say that the current implementation of signal routing in Resolve is rudimentary at best. I hope that, as Blackmagic continues to refine the Fairlight portion of the app, key functions will become more intuitive and user friendly since at the moment this feels a whole lot like a repeat of Apple's atrocious Soundtrack Pro.

Well, thanks to you all I picked up the Waves plugin even though I had no idea I even needed it when I got up yesterday. For the price of a couple of cocktails and a tip it's a no brainer to have.

Took me a bit to figure out how to insert it into Resolve, but it seems like a nice "in a jam" type of functionality to have. I can confirm that I couldn't get the plugin to work while the audio track is connected to the BUS, but it does seem to work fine when the audio track is connected to the MAIN. The other thing I noticed is that the AU version doesn't work in Resolve while the VST does...weird.

Which brings me to my next question, anyone have any idea how to re-arrange the outputs so that they match the SMPTE/AES order instead of the way they are assigned by the plugin?

Not sure this is any help for you, but I played around with the Halo Upmix - seems like this has to be routed via a 5.1 bus (it doesn't work on a stereo bus or a stereo track, unlike in Avid Media Composer).

For the Halo the output routing is in the settings panel - no idea for Waves I'm afraid.

3. Does Blackmagic intend to move to AAX?

Steinberg have just released (10th November 2017) their VST SDK v3.6.8 which includes an AAX wrapper, so it may actually be possible to run the Penteo 7 Pro plugin within Resolve if Penteo decided to go that route.

“Note that in order to use this AAX wrapper for your plug-in you have to download the AAX SDK (contact AVID), tested with AAX SDK Version 2.3.0”

https://www.steinberg.net/en/company/developers.html

Everything is in the manual page 4.

Not really, if at all!

Perhaps your page 4 is not the current page 4?

Everything is in the manual page 4.

Not really, if at all!

Perhaps your page 4 is not the current page 4?

maybe...

page_4.jpg

Well, thanks to you all I picked up the Waves plugin even though I had no idea I even needed it when I got up yesterday. For the price of a couple of cocktails and a tip it's a no brainer to have..

I think the plugin only works if you give it a stereo input signal so there's little point in attaching it to anything except the main output channel.

What would be of greater interest is an information from BM on how to get 5:1 from DR14/Fairlight??

What is more than a little confusing is that 5:1 specifies 6 audio 'files' or channels when creating a DCP. I read that to create 5:1 from DR14 each channel must be a mono channel. The problem is that I have 14 audio tracks in my project so how do I mix these down to the 6 audio tracks required by 5:1

Even more confusing is the fact that an audio track can be set to 5:1 on the timeline in DR14 but that seems to be a dead end as there is no obvious way to extract that to a 5:1 mix.

Any suggestions welcomed

Solution found!

After much poking around it seems that the key is to modify the MAIN bus on the Fairlight page (Fairlight/Bus format) (or create a new bus) and set its format to 5:1 (there is a list to choose from). Also note that DCP seems to require the AAC format for your 5:1 mix

If you create a new bus you must also re-assign the tracks to that bus.

Bingo! Now the tracks in the timeline (mono) can be panned all the way around the room or focused on one channel as you wish.

Depending on your choice of DCP frame size you may need to adjust the 'output sizing' of the film in the color page to avoid the black masks on the left & right of the screen.

In the deliver page you can then select the 5:1 bus as the source for the audio which then goes on to create your render (in my case MOV / DNxHR 444 12 bit 1998x1080 DCI flat samt 5:1 audio AAC)

Still much experimenting to do so any suggestions or help appreciated

DCP requires what Waves call the AES channel order. Don’t confuse this with AAC which is lossy compression!