Best Way To Edit To Beat of Music?

Is there a best way to edit your cuts to the beat of the music in a separate audio track?

Suppose you are doing a music video, so you lay down your audio track and want your edits to be on the beat of the music.

Right now, I just zoom in on the audio track and play it and replay it until I pretty much find the beat I want to cut on (using the wave form of the audio track), but I often find that I am putting my edits slightly off the beat.

Is there a better way to do this? Is there any sort of way to get the playhead right on to a nearby beat in the music without having to scrub back and forth while eyeballing the waveform of the audio track?

Use your ears. Feel the beat. Cut. Watch your cut and listen. Try a frame back and forth.
Like a good musician might play laid back or push it a bit. (Sad to note that many music in our days is produced more by eye then by ear).

For the first cut I often hit the marker shortcut while listening to the whole song (like tapping rhythm with the finger on a table).

Johannes

Complementing what Johannes said, waveforms play a big part here. After listening carefully you can visually see where to cut, generally to the hardest beat which almost always gives a higher peak in the waveform. I studied music many years ago so for me its easier as I understand the first beat of a bar is louder so usually thats a good place to cut. But as everything in our world, it depends on the case. Thats why listening and feeling comes first and the waveform give you a visual aid to know where/when to cut precisely.

So, we're all agreed, that Mark is doing it the "best" way, and, that he will get better at it with time, practice and experience.

Keep it going, Mark!

I usually mark the in point during playback 'on the fly' and anticipate the beat so the mark is not late. (I'm a drummer) I can also mark out if I need to. The waveform display works ok for some music but not all music waveforms show the beats clearly. You can also add markers to the timeline on the fly to pre position editing points.

There's a better feel to a music video if you do the editing on the fly. You choose the edits when it feels right rather than mechanically lining up edits with waveforms and exact beats. Sometimes you want the visual action lining up with the beat and not the edit point!

My method is basically: Mark in, Mark Out, Edit, Review, Trim, Review. You can become very fast with this method as there is minimal mouse use and no zooming in on waveforms etc.

One thing to consider is that the human brain is more accepting of a slightly early edit, but not a slightly late edit. Google "Persistence of vision". Hope this helps....

In addition to the good advice shared above, you can download a click track sound file (just google), put it into the timeline as a separate track, mute it and adjust the speed of it so it matches the music.
If you drag the audio track to be quite tall, it will give you a much clearer visual of the timing of the song.
This only helps if your audio wasn't that visually clear, and of course only works if the song you're matching has a steady tempo.

I have also found that putting markers on significant changes in the tone of the music (lifts, breakdowns, etc) can be handy when you're aiming for the end of a sequence to align with a change in the music.

My personal opinion would be to suggest doing it by feel instead of by visually aligning it to the waveform, yes this is contrary to the above(!), as editing exactly on the beat gets very predictable and has a very 'robotic' feel, which may suit your project, but also may not.

Thank you everyone who has replied.

Since you ALL had great tips, it probably doesn't make sense to quote everyone and reply "individually" so I hope it is ok if just kind of group my reactions together in one post.

Thanks to everyone for affirming that it is just a case of "look and listen."

I guess I was hoping there was a way to play the whole timeline (all clips and audio as well) at a slower speed (say, at 75% or 50%) so that when I am putting in markers then I am able to be a little bit more accurate.

Also, I guess I need to figure out a way to make the soundtrack wave form bigger.

Again, thanks for ALL the advice already given. The last video I finished was 2:25 long and had about 40 cuts, so getting the cuts lined up with the beat(s) was probably the most time-intensive part of the whole project.

Unfortunately, i studied music a lot and play guitar and I am pretty pedantic when editing to music. I might cut on One, but I might cut on three or cut on two-and. So I probably over-think it

.... in terms of making the audio track taller, try hovering the mouse over the line separating the audio from the video, in the area to the left of the start of the audio. See if the pointer turns into a “plus” sign. You should be able to drag the border up.

I second the markers strategy:
Put your audio on a track
hit play in edit
Listen and hit (m) on the keyboard, it will leave behind a mark.
Shift+arrow will jump to marks.
If you're late on tapping, pour the sound one or two frame in advance before marking, it will get closer.

I wrote electronic music on and off for 10 years, so I understand being pedantic! I've fine-tuned edit points by evaluating the frame before the beat and the one after the beat several times each before picking one and moving on. It can seem trivial, but 1/25th of a second is an eternity in a music context.

The other thing that I worked out is that Resolve can throw out the timing if it's struggling to keep up with the frame rate. If this is the case, apart from doing all the things to optimise it like turning all effects off, using render caches etc, it can help by starting about 3-4 seconds after the beat and playing backwards until you're a few seconds before the beat. I've found this helps to ensure that the computer is primed to play the exact section of the video.
I discovered this when I was trying to do a very rhythmic and stylised music video style piece.

Good luck

Thanks again, Everyone.

After doing a bit more research, i think I found something that might work.

Basically, to play the whole timeline slower, press the K and the L key simultaneously, WHILE holding down the left mouse on the Marker icon.

Then when you get to the desired beat in the music, RELEASE the mouse (that is on the marker icon)

I found that if I try to click on the marker Icon while holding down the K and L keys, I am always behind the beat.

Didn't realize that the marker is applied WHEN YOU RELEASE the mouse and not when you press down on the mouse.

...My method is basically: Mark in, Mark Out, Edit, Review, Trim, Review. You can become very fast with this method as there is minimal mouse use and no zooming in on waveforms etc...

Totally agree. Having edited thousands of video clips and TV spots, this method works very well for me. I use Lightworks and Resolve with the same X-Keys 68 Jog/Shuttle transport controller which really makes this style of editing fast and fluent, especially with the Preview key where the play-head kicks back three seconds, plays over the cut then returns to your in-point as soon as you hit Stop.

I'm sure Resolve 'Review' can now be set up the same way. Here's a quick-n-dirty video I made for X-Keys demonstrating fast editing without a mouse:

For many years I had edited classical music concerts (you can find the DVDs I authored here: http://www.castellogt.pl/plyty-wydane ); of course I also produced BDs with all those events - but since it's so much easier to sell DVD than BD, only the former have always been printed while BDs with the original, FHD versions of the coverage I only burned in very limited quantities). I always was one of the camera crew for those events and some of them I also DP'ed.

At that time (in the years 2008-2015) I didn't use Resolve; Sony's Vegas Pro was my NLE and I must tell you it was a real pleasure for me as a true music lover to set up a multi-camera project in Vegas, display all cameras in the MC view on a large monitor (had to be a 50" FHD plasma so that - even with 6-10 individual camera windows on it - those windows were still big enough for me to see details), hit 'Play' and let myself get submerged in that audio-video experience! When I had a "good day" (right mood, nobody/nothing disrupting my work), I didn't even have to watch my waveforms; with the large enough picture of each camera displayed simultaneously and synchronized perfectly (a subject for another discussion ) with the loud enough sound of those beautiful master-pieces - I did my cuts on-the-fly, picking what I considered the best camera view to be shown at s specific moment of time within each piece duration... As I said: cutting my MC music videos has always been a true feast for my senses...

My life has then taken an unfortunate course after I couldn't postpone a serious surgery on my neck spine any longer (actually, 2 unsuccessful surgeries) - and I do not produce my classical music videos any more . I also switched from Vegas Pro do Resolve, and UHD HDR10 grading has become my main activity as far as video post-production is concerned (video production is not my main profession, and never was)...But I do miss my multi-camera, live classical music concerts cutting experience, so the day will come when I'll try to re-create my Vegas Pro workflow in Resolve. I realize DR's strength is not in MC cutting but grading and creative correction of color, so it may as well prove the workflow is not going to work in Resolve as good as it used to in Vegas Pro - but the main thing will never change (and this is my 2 cents to the OP of this thread):

- if you have a good musical ear, not only is cutting your music videos "to the beat of music" possible but it can be a great, creative experience! Good luck

Piotr

Like others have said, doing it by ear is probably the best.

So there is no beat or bar ruler and snapping in Resolve, like Vegas ?

No. DR really sucks

No. DR really sucks

Dont use it...

On top of what others have said, I "mark-up" my entire timeline prior to cutting with different colored markers:
1. blue = beat (not every beat, just notable ones)
2. green = start of lyrical line
3. red = end of lyrical line
4. yellow = moment of note (crescendo, etc.)

While this might seem like I'm being anal/robotic about it, I actually think that doing this manual labor as a separate pass frees me to be more creative once I start cutting.

Editing to the beat is a simplistic, reductionist view of the medium. It speaks of a mechanical rather than a creative outlook. It is editing by rote rather than seeking to connect two disparate worlds. It is like painting by numbers, an exercise in amateurism.

At the most basic level, even as a beginner, you must also look at when to cut before the beat, after the beat and off the beat - and that *is* just the beginning.

I always recommend that editors watch (and learn from) one of the best examples of music editing that I have come across. And ask yourself has it been directed and edited by someone dedicated to cutting on the beat or by someone who understands both the visual and the musical arts and how to marry them with the appropriate sensitivity.

Also note that it uses straight cuts and not dissolves - again the sign of someone who knows what they are doing. It is a magnificent piece of work. And the pianist isn’t half bad either - merely world class.

.

interesting reading...

i have some chops in cutting music videos (two best editing awards from Much Music here in Canada)

i don't "cut to the beat"

put the hero shots on the beat
cut where the cuts don't get noticed
put the hero's where they will be noticed = on the beat

so the premise seems flawed to me

that said i don't really cut anything but commericals anymore as i'm pretty filled up finishing and gradeing films, commericals and music video's that someone else cuts...

got Much's best editing of the year the first time they gave out award..

didn't "cut to the beat" in 1986, still don't.....

Great work Dermot and I think like any professional you work to rules - made-up rules of your own that act as a sort of methodology or guidelines and of course that you use or ignore as you see fit (I assume). (That’s me telling you how you work - what am I thinking of?). But your relationship between beats and hero shots makes sense. I recommend the classical piece as the pace is generally slower (in terms of cuts) than music videos and I find, that to the beginner, fast cutting music videos seem to them as if they cut to the beat even when they don’t and it takes them longer to get their head around that just because of the cutting speed. All this analysis is making my head sore - doing the actual cutting is far easier.

Further to Tony & Dermot's comments, don't get stuck on ONE method to edit to music. The hidden job of the editor is to make the vision & sound work as 'one'. Some edits work with the action matching the 'beat' and some work with the scene change on the 'beat'. Sometimes both.

I have similar experience to these wise gentlemen, and my approach is to always examine the music and it's feel, emotion and meaning well before deciding on a visual approach to the edit. I also work on a 'gut' level of instinct to decide on what works and what does not work in an edit.

I never mark up the timeline with beat markers because I find my brain gravitates to those marks as being the preferred option rather than assessing each edit on it's own merits. There have been times where I forced the edits off the beat to enhance the uncomfortable nature of that particular section of music.

Being a musician helps the editing process as it's about the feel of the music, not the exact technical accuracy of vision edits to musical beats. It's ART not SCIENCE.

I'm working right now on the edit and grade of a 4.5 minute promotional music clip which will be projected to a large audience in a controlled environment. I have been granted access to several hours of original drone images shot by some very skilled photographers based in Asia but the music track is from an Australian duo.

When working with some of the best pictures and an excellent music track, my roll as Editor and Colorist, (quite apart from careful Framerate, Timecode and Reel ID preparation) is to create a sum which proves superior to all the parts.

I'm going to share what I know for sure.

If you cut IN the beat, you can use the kind of beat to make a jump from where the center attention
was to where it change in the next clip.

If you cut OFF the beat but your hero do something IN the beat, it also ok and powerful to the subject. His action has the bang of the beat.

Music has a certain speed. Movement of the shot must match that speed or it will seem in disaccord.

Music has certain timber, some sounds are more elongated for example. They allows us to "wander" inside the shot. The sounds that are shorter and jaded urges us to see change. A note for each thing happening. If the sound is expansive like a cymbal, the top of a palm tree is adequate. Hayao Miyazaki use it in Princes Mononoke title sequence with big letters.

As the examples above. The change can be in the kind of shot or the kind of editing. Tony Martin's video is an example of music express through movement of the shot itself, it can be a dolly o the movement of the subject of the shot. In Dermot's video the music affects the editing itself. It's not cutted to the beat but the takes are short and frenetic.

I used to cut my films using the recorded sound of a metronome at the certain speed. Then, when I looked for the music, I just looked that the music matched that tempo. This is handy but it's not fine tuning. Images will flow in a sense but i will not be alive. Among other obvious reasons, it's also because music has rhythmic parts and melodic parts. Even though it may be made in a certain tempo, melodic parts flow through the tempo like wind thru metal bars. Some singers do make match, some others don't. For me it's ideal make the cut have certain mathematical relation with tempo, to be in proportion with it, to let it "breath" in proportion or cut it by half or a quarter. But at the same time, there are moments in the narrative when you are forced to do something else, either by the size of the action of your character or because the music changed. I believe it's a negotiation in which strategy and logic have much to say.

I did this thing with a metronome because of my background in animation. In the old Disney studios, animation was animated at a certain beat so a compositor could make his job later. That means, if you have a compositor making for you the music, or maybe yourself, it's good to think in the tempo of the editing so things become easier down the road for the music to fill in. If you want to do Mickey Mousing, then you have no alternative but to prepare the way.

You see, images can be adapted to music or vice versa. Your editing will depend on what situation you are. Nothing stop you to understanding the tempo and follow it as good as you can, taking advantage of the beats to configure a higher meaning in your image or your edit.

Finally, as spectators we need some anticipation to see things happening. IE, in the Alicia de Larrocha, we see a hand with a violin arc just about to strike a note. There is music behind but we get it as "sonic space" and the sound of the violin note as "the hero sound". Meaning, we need some kind of silence or
calm moment to be able to hear and see things. Otherwise is messy and it doesn't read at all.

A director is mainly a director of attention. How the human gaze changes from one point of the screen to another in the next cut means something. Music will determine how our gaze travel but it's us who say how much it travels thru the screen.