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ACES Workflow - Fusion Tab

PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:22 pm
by Stefan Kirste
we are using "Color science" - ACEScct
ACES Input Device Transform : ACEScg
ACES Output Device Transform: Rec.709.

when working in the new fusion Tab , the MediaIN need to be transformed to ACEScg, because Fusion works in linear mode instead of log (All operations, and Generators(f.E. FastNoise, 3DRender). Furthermore in Fusion-Tab, there need to be a ACEScg->Rec.709 LUT in the viewer(s).

It would be smart, to have an additional Entry in the "Color Management"-Setting, to set it up for Fusion, like "ACES Fusion IDT?"

2nd:
it would be smart to have a prerender button for the MediaOut Node, because it can be silly to smartcache a Fusion script in the edit, when it need to render 10 min. or more.

Re: ACES Workflow - Fusion Tab

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:33 am
by David Cherniack
Good points. Other than the display LUTs there's no color management in the Fusion Page yet. BM CDNG is showing log and requires a LUT to look partially decent but there' no BM CDNG log to 'whatever' LUTs. And no way to affect the output of the Decklink card.

My project is also in ACES and it would help to have ACES color management throughout.

Re: ACES Workflow - Fusion Tab

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:06 am
by alexfry
Yeah, you can work around it currently by loading the ACES OCIO config into resolve, but that feels like a hack.

I'd also suggest that it should be forcing the handoff space to be ACEScg rather than ACEScct, as you want to be in scene linear for almost any comp operation.

You sort of expect "Resolve Viewer" to become and option in that viewer menu at some point.

Re: ACES Workflow - Fusion Tab

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:32 pm
by Ulysses Paiva
Wouldnt it be easier if the changes made in the Color Tab/Page were visible in Fusion tab with the button to turn it off as it already is in Edit and Fairlight tabs?

That would be great to go back and forth when compositing. And all the math would be under the hood/before applying the color.

Re: ACES Workflow - Fusion Tab

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:48 pm
by Nick Shaw
Ulysses Paiva wrote:Wouldnt it be easier if the changes made in the Color Tab/Page were visible in Fusion tab with the button to turn it off as it already is in Edit and Fairlight tabs?

That would be great to go back and forth when compositing. And all the math would be under the hood/before applying the color.

I was thinking the same. It will be quite common to want to view your comp through a grade, even if that is only provisional, or if working ACES, through the RRT and ODT at the very least.

Currently (and please correct me if I'm wrong – I'm not really a Fusion user) it is necessary to add something like an `OCIO Colorspace` (set to e.g. ACEScct to Output Rec.709) node to the Fusion comp so see a "normal" looking image while working on it. You then need to make sure this is switched off before you go to other pages, to prevent a double LUT effect.

Re: ACES Workflow - Fusion Tab

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:12 pm
by Bryan Ray
You can set the Viewer LUT with an OCIO transform instead of using a node. That will leave your actual image unchanged and only affect your viewing environment. The Viewer LUT button is above the Viewer—the icon looks like a little grid for some reason.

Re: ACES Workflow - Fusion Tab

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:17 pm
by Fabián Matas
Did you check the new Process Node LUTS in tab on the color management settings? Do they convert a standard LUT on the right color space?

Theres no doc on this subject and maybe it has to do with the workaround for ACES/Fusion.

Re: ACES Workflow - Fusion Tab

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:17 am
by alexfry
Ulysses Paiva wrote:Wouldnt it be easier if the changes made in the Color Tab/Page were visible in Fusion tab with the button to turn it off as it already is in Edit and Fairlight tabs?

That would be great to go back and forth when compositing. And all the math would be under the hood/before applying the color.


Yup, this would be ideal, along with the bypass all button we see on the other pages.

I spent much longer than I want to admit to trying to work out with the ACES OCIO config wasnt matching the main Color viewer (I had a grade applied).

Re: ACES Workflow - Fusion Tab

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:31 am
by Nick Shaw
Bryan Ray wrote:You can set the Viewer LUT with an OCIO transform instead of using a node. That will leave your actual image unchanged and only affect your viewing environment. The Viewer LUT button is above the Viewer—the icon looks like a little grid for some reason.

Thanks. See, my lack of familiarity with Fusion is showing!

That helps if you just want a straight RRT + ODT.

But if you want to see the comp with a grade, having to export a LUT and then set an OCIO File Transform as a VLUT seems unnecessarily complex. And the LUT would need updating every time the grade was changed. It would still make sense in the long term to have the option to see the comp in the context of the current grade. It should be part of the benefit of integrating Fusion into Resolve.

Re: ACES Workflow - Fusion Tab

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:23 pm
by Bryan Ray
I agree, and I imagine that's near the top of the list in terms of getting the environments to talk to one another. The current LUT situation is already far better than what we have in vanilla Fusion, though, since we've got access to all the standard DaVinci-provided LUTs now instead of just a handful of pre-built ones and a couple of utilities.

Re: ACES Workflow - Fusion Tab

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 1:34 pm
by Abel Milanes
I have requested something related to this in the Feature Request thread:

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=58534&start=500#p410065

- Be able to set a Fusion Comp working color space. This could be useful for those working in Log or ACES. Being able to work in either ACEScg or Rec709Linear will probably make more sense in these situations. The way I see it is similar to the Color Management Settings. MediaIn come from Timeline Space to Comp Space, Media out goes Back to Timeline Space.

I guess I forgot to mention that the viewing LUT should be set to the whatever Reosolve is using in the Color page.

I was doing some testing and got the Fusion viewer looking close to the Color Page (ACESTcc in the Color page, Acescg in Fusion), but the area some slight deiferences in the resulting image. I suspect it may be because of slight difference between OCIO and Resolve implementation of the Rec709 RRT.

ksnapshot_01.jpeg
ksnapshot_01.jpeg (181.94 KiB) Viewed 2207 times

Re: ACES Workflow - Fusion Tab

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 2:41 pm
by Bryan Ray
That sounds like a good idea. I would prefer that any automatic color management would be done through auto-generated nodes rather than a black-box transform happening elsewhere. I'm always a proponent of keeping everything visible in the Flow—even in Fusion standalone, with it's absurdly complex Loader, I never use the internal color space conversion or pixel aspect correction in the Loader.

Re: ACES Workflow - Fusion Tab

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 3:43 pm
by Abel Milanes
I think there could be differences between Fusion Standalone and Resolve Fusion regarding color workflow. I guess this main difference is Loader vs MediaIN. In Resolve, since you are working in the context of a project, any MediaIn input could have its color conversions coming from a set of Project settings that work harmonically with the Color Page. MediaIN could also have the same clip options you got in the Camera RAW and Clip Luts available in the color page.

Re: ACES Workflow - Fusion Tab

PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 5:09 am
by Peter Chamberlain
We have a little more work to do for Fusion color in Resolve to make this easier and less opaque

Re: ACES Workflow - Fusion Tab

PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 9:05 am
by Abel Milanes
Thanks Peter for all the work.

Re: ACES Workflow - Fusion Tab

PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 9:25 am
by hartworx
After all the releases - is there any news on a proper preview of ACES CG in the Fusion card (or an option to have a good preview of the colors/contrasts over a decklink-card)? Is there a guide how to set up everything?

Right now the timeline shows croper colors/contrasts and the fusion tab justs looks different.